General Libertarians In Swing States: Can we risk 4 more Obama years by voting for Johnson?

[LibertyPA]

Just stop. We're not giving anyone anything. They lost our votes. Understand, or do you not have any principles?

I was about to hold my nose and vote McCain last go round before he went and supported the bailouts. Never again. We're all fed up here with the direction this country is being taken by the establishment on both sides, so jsut save your breath (and please don't act offended, you know exactly what you're here to do, so don't act all innocent)

when you say "Our" who exactly are you talking about?

Haha and I can't believe you are back on this train again - thinking I am part of some under cover group sent to sway the 3,000 people on this forum to change their minds. I am asking for people to change my mind! I haven't heard a single person take the time to explain thigns to me, only attacking me with one line posts.
Not everything in your life has to be a conspiracy. lol

 

[TheGrinch]

when you say "Our" who exactly are you talking about?

Haha and I can't believe you are back on this train again - thinking I am part of some under cover group sent to sway the 3,000 people on this forum to change their minds. I am asking for people to change my mind! I haven't heard a single person take the time to explain thigns to me, only attacking me with one line posts.
Not everything in your life has to be a conspiracy. lol

I didn't say that you are an undercover troll, just that you clearly have an agenda, which is to make us consider Romney. That ship has long since sailed. Sorry.

However, if you'd like to learn more of the reasons we (and to answer your question, we refers to a movement who will not stand for the banksters to run this country into the ground any longer) absolutely will not vote for Romney, I will be glad to continue to share and enlighten, as I'm sure others will as well.

 

[LibertyPA]

Agreed. I'm NEVER going to vote for Mitt. Sorry, I will not let GOP sheep convince me that voting my conscience is voting for Obama. ESPECIALLY after the way they treated Ron Paul supporters. I DON'T CARE IF MITT LOSES. I DON'T CARE IF OBAMA WINS. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE VOTING FOR.

You too?

How many people on here think there is a huge conspiracy about people coming on to this forum, ADMIT they are leaning to a romney vote, and then somehow making that an undercover movement to sway your votes?

Oh, and keep in mind, I am asking for people to offer thoughts and ideas as to why a vote should be FOR Gary Johnson. I have heard some good points here, but mostly attacked.

Many of you act as if you believe in how the founding fathers did things - and i can assure you they would have had a civil debate and not had such direct attacks. Think about that for a moment and I hope you stay with this post and offer your thoughts and ideas and avoid the attacks.

 

[TheGrinch]

You too?

How many people on here think there is a huge conspiracy about people coming on to this forum, ADMIT they are leaning to a romney vote, and then somehow making that an undercover movement to sway your votes?

Oh, and keep in mind, I am asking for people to offer thoughts and ideas as to why a vote should be FOR Gary Johnson. I have heard some good points here, but mostly attacked.

Many of you act as if you believe in how the founding fathers did things - and i can assure you they would have had a civil debate and not had such direct attacks. Think about that for a moment and I hope you stay with this post and offer your thoughts and ideas and avoid the attacks.

Again, we don't thikn it's a conspiracy, but you clearly have an agenda, as you're not letting it go, and only pushing harder in a futile effort.

So sorry, but my as you came here to discuss. You clearly came here to convince, for whatever reason, so expect attacks when you don't head our advice to not waste your breath.

 

[Dr.3D]

You too?

How many people on here think there is a huge conspiracy about people coming on to this forum, ADMIT they are leaning to a romney vote, and then somehow making that an undercover movement to sway your votes?

Oh, and keep in mind, I am asking for people to offer thoughts and ideas as to why a vote should be FOR Gary Johnson. I have heard some good points here, but mostly attacked.

Many of you act as if you believe in how the founding fathers did things - and i can assure you they would have had a civil debate and not had such direct attacks. Think about that for a moment and I hope you stay with this post and offer your thoughts and ideas and avoid the attacks.

I doubt you will find that many people here who are going to vote for Gary Johnson.

 

[LibertyPA]

Okay let's talk about Romney and Ryan, what we do know anyway:

1) Paul Ryan's so-called conservative budget plan won't balance the budget for 28 years (and that's quite optimistic, when you have no clue what future congresses and adminstrations will do). All the while we will jsut continue to rack up debt and interest.

2) There is no call to end wars and reduce military spending, only calls to raise it, as it becomes abundantly clear that our spending and interventionalism is unsustaianble at best, only making the situation worse at worst.

3) Won't even pay lip-service to ending the fed, which is stripping the wealth of 98% of Americans through the inflationary tax (more appropriate term than inflation)

4) Is not calling for repealing tremendous dangers to liberty and freedom, the Patriot Act, NDAA, drones, etc.

So really the only difference we're looking at is a slightly greater possibility he might feel pressured to repeal Obamacare that he invented in the first place, while both men are tremendous dangers to our economy, liberty and lives if you're standing in the way of their special interests enough. Does that sum it up, or should we continue with the reasons we can't trust Romney any more than Obama?

you are spot on with #4 and other points, but in #1, i agree 28 years is a joke!! but can you please list these 4 points about what may happen if Obama has 4 more years? Because rather than ballance in 3 decades, we could double our debt in 4.

 

[TheGrinch]

you are spot on with #4 and other points, but in #1, i agree 28 years is a joke!! but can you please list these 4 points about what may happen if Obama has 4 more years? Because rather than ballance in 3 decades, we could double our debt in 4.

3 deceades as you acrue interest on 15 trillion, plus increases in military spending and other debts? That's like saying I'd rather chop off my arm than my nuts.

And I don't have to list the reasons I don't like Obama. I'm not voting for him either, nor are you asking me to.

 

[CaptUSA]

Ok, let's assume you are interested in the truth.

Romney believes in Keynesian economics when it comes to his pet projects. Military spending creates jobs. That is 100% false. You have to take the money out of the economy before you can put it back into the economy. Then, when you expend the artillery, the wealth is further destroyed.

He pretends to understand this for entitlement issues, but he's really the same as Obama. He has no sense of freedom. You said he would offer us some freedoms - that doesn't compute. If there's someone deciding which "freedoms" you are allowed to have, you aren't free. What he's really talking about are privileges. We don't want more government privileges - we want freedom.

Obama? Romney? Bush? Doesn't matter. They are all part of the problem. They don't have an understanding of what liberty is.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

As a Republican in a swing state, I cannot conscience a vote for either a lethal dose of arsenic or a lethal dose of cyanide. Both leave you just as dead in the end. If your loyalty is either to conservative ideals or to the Republican Party, you will do well to give some thought to the fact that QE3 will implode the economy by December of 2014 no matter who is elected, because neither candidate will do anything about the Federal Reserve, and whomever is in the Oval Office when that happens will get the blame for 'their philosophy' destroying America. If red elephants preside over the destruction of America, you can be assured that blue jackasses will be in charge of the rebuilding effort, and just imagine how that is going to go.

 

[CaptUSA]

you are spot on with #4 and other points, but in #1, i agree 28 years is a joke!! but can you please list these 4 points about what may happen if Obama has 4 more years? Because rather than ballance in 3 decades, we could double our debt in 4.

You're still thinking there's a choice between two ideologies. There isn't. Did you watch the last debate?! The only thing they disagreed about was who was going to administer the exact same foreign policy.

There is no choice here. Don't let the parties fool you.

 

[TheGrinch]

:crickets:



But I was really hoping he was gonna try rationalizing with Gunny. That exchange would have made my day...

 

[deadfish]

First, please let me introduce myself, I am Lou from PA and I own a small business. Married with a wife and young child.

I live in Pennsylvania and while I am not officially part of the Libertarian Party, I do agree with Libertarians on more issues than any other party. PA isn't quite a swing state, but some reports say it may be closer than Obama may like to see. While being on this forum I have read posts from people in non-swing states (such as New York or Texas) talk about voting for Gary Johnson. And some some people listed reasons such as, increasing the popular vote for G.J. and yet not swinging any Elect. College votes for the D or R.

My question is specific to people in states that are swing states. This is partly because I am not fully decided, though in the past couple weeks I am leaning for Romney. The reason for my vote is because I think Obama is as far from a Libertarian as one could possibly elect. Romney is a bad choice, a very bad choice, and yet he still wants to offer some freedoms, he does believe in a free market for our economey, or at least more of a free market than Obama. I have my doubts about Romney overturning Obama care, but there is at least a chance that Romney would do such things - and there is Zero chance Obama would change his own goverment mandate on health care. When I view Obama, I see a person who doesn't know or doesn't care about the words in the Constitution. I see Romney as a person similar in many ways, but I see a difference and would fear 4 more years of Obama. I also think about Romney needing to be careful on what he does or doesn't do because he hopes to get reelected in 2016. Obama, will have 4 more years without worry of reelection and if he was this reckless in 4 "checked" years, I don't want to be a part of 4 more "unchecked" years.

I hope to hear from the Libertarians on this forum who live in those handful of Swing States. Have you made up your choice or are you on the fence - and if so which way are you leaning? I hope in this next week, we can all chat more under this new thread and talk about what is happening in our states and why we are going one way or the other. So I ask: Why vote for Johnson in a swing state when you know that makes it almost a "lock" for Obama to get 4 more years? or I will ask: Why vote for Romney when he may not be for as big of government as Obama but still supports many big government ideas?

Hello Lau, thanks for taking the time to come chat. I wish more folks were as open to discussion as you.

As a registered Republican in OH, I will try to shed some light on why I will likely vote for Gary Johnson. In short, because he earned it. How does Mitt Romney earn a vote? Well, he's not Obama primarily.

In other words, let's say you dedicated every day of your life for years to the business of being elected to a political office. Raising money, campaigning almost every day, writing articles, working on a book, tv/radio interviews, etc. Every where you go, people love your message and thank you for your dedication to public service. It's a den of vipers and you're risking your livelihood to protect your fellow citizens. At the end of 1 - 2 year campaign, wouldn't you just feel crushed if people that loved your message decided not to vote for you because you were not likely to win? To add insult to injury, you hear this same thing from thousands and thousands of people. Yet, if all the people that said that actually ended up voting for you, you would win!

I like Gary Johnson, and I would like to encourage him and others like him to try again in the future. My statistically meaningless vote (even in OH) is my way of saying Thank You.

 

[KCIndy]

I'll be honest: I'm not a huge fan of Gary Johnson.

But I do think this chart does a pretty good job of summing up the differences between Romney and Obama:

 

[KCIndy]

oops - anyone know how to shrink that down a bit?

 

[acptulsa]

My Word - please tell me you are joking.
I specifically said I was leaning to vote for Romney in the first message. Doesn't take a code breaker to read that part. Lol
You think this is "crafted" haha, and yet I admit everything upfront. I hope you aren't one of those people that don't think we landed on the moon too. Is everything is a conspiracy to you?!?!

Why can you not just share your points -- you can only made personal attacks and accusations.....just talk about why a vote for Gary Johnson is a good idea for people in swing states when it may alter the outcome of the election.

You will do as you will. Republicans have, for years and years and years, voted Republican to overturn Roe v. Wade. Yet even when the Republicans have had the chance (and there have been times when they won control of both Congress and the White House--they haven't done it.

They've got you, too, all caught up in this divide and conquer strategy. And what will it get you? Hope that Obamacare will be nipped in the bud? By the guy who invented it? Sounds good, but how much are you willing to bet on that? I know he made state choice noises about it, but I haven't seen a law repealed in my lifetime, and if he never gets the repeal from the Congress, he has cover. Doesn't he? Besides, he was all about his own version of Obamacare before we made enough headway to convince him to flip flop on that subject. Like many other subjects...

Why vote Johnson? I've been saying for years and years that getting rid of the current two party duopoly is just a matter of getting enough people on board that people will see the growing numbers and realize the simple fact that all it takes for us to vote someone else in is to vote for someone else. And a bit more momentum could get us to the tipping point. What favors have the Demopublicans and Republicrats done for you lately that they deserve your continued patronage?

The Republican Party hasn't been with us forever. They began their ascent about 1850. And now that they're indistinguishable from the Democrats (and they really, really are) it's time for them to go out the same way they came in.

Oh, and by the way: A vote for Johnson is a vote for Johnson. It's really simple how that works.

 

[angelatc]

Really?!?!?
You see exactly ZERO differences between the two?

Pretty much, yes. One of them is black, but other than that they are interchangeable.

I'm not interested in making a protest vote. I'm voting for the candidate that has views that most closely match my own, especially since the GOP didn't see fit to even add a single one of our issues to their platform. ( I don't want the blood on Iran on my hands, either. )

And, a vote for Johnson means ballot access for the LP in the next election.

 

[erowe1]

Under Obama federal spending increased more slowly than it had under any other president for a long time.

If Romney gets elected, do you expect the rate of growth of federal spending to continue to go up that slowly? Or do you expect it to take off like a rocket? I predict the latter.

 

[Keith and stuff]

We were debating, if there were only 2 candidates, which 1 wouldn't be as bad between Romney and Obama. I came up with 1 of the better points. Romney has managed to live longer. Someone else said he has better hair. That seemed like an opinion to me so I mentioned that but the person than said I might say that as my hair is closer to the Obama style than the Romney style. These are the most important issues of the day!

 

[acptulsa]

They eat the meat and throw the rest of us a bone. And the only thing that keeps us from killing them is they offer us the choice every couple of years between a chicken bone or a steak bone. And no matter which way we vote, it's as likely to be either--or a pork bone, or some fish bones.

If you think they're so different, riddle me this--was it Dubya or Obama who gave more of our money to the richest banks and insurance companies in the world?

I'm tired of being incrementalized to death while everyone fights over whether they want the wars to grow more slowly or the socialized medicine to grow more slowly. Time to stop being fools and go for the meat.

Many of you act as if you believe in how the founding fathers did things - and i can assure you they would have had a civil debate and not had such direct attacks.

Bone up on your history. The way the founding fathers did things was with principle and passion.

 

[erowe1]

We were debating, if there were only 2 candidates, which 1 wouldn't be as bad between Romney and Obama. I came up with 1 of the better points. Romney has managed to live longer. Someone else said he has better hair. That seemed like an opinion to me so I mentioned that but the person than said I might say that as my hair is closer to the Obama style than the Romney style. These are the most important issues of the day!

You could probably say that Romney has more of a track record of proven success in a lot of things.

But when both of their objectives are to subjugate you and me, would we rather the person trying to do that be someone with a record of success or someone with a record of failure?