General Libertarians In Swing States: Can we risk 4 more Obama years by voting for Johnson?

[TheGrinch]

Honestly not trying to sway voters -- I joined to chat, but have been moving in this direction. I fully shared information about myself and was upfront about my position. Even asking two fully opposite questions to close my post - giving people two directions/paths to talk and talk about. So I don't like you commenting that I am trying to sway anyone, but asking to talk with people about this election and the use of their vote.....of course also asking Why?

My apologies for confusing you with the other 1,000 folks who join after our campaign here is over to try to sway us to vote for someone else.

Seriously, I could care less what your intentions are here. My point is that Romney had a golden opportunity to at least draw consideration of some of our votes, and he and the establishment cheated, ignored, disenfrachised, and made it abundantly clear that we're not welcome in their tent.

You're barking up the wrong tree here. People aren't here for "lesser of two evils", vote for the guy who stinks a little less. We're here for real change. The blood isn't going to be on our hands.

 

[Dr.3D]

If he said this, I didn't realize it.
As i said, I am not a republican, so I did not follow all of his words, but in the debates I watched I remember him saying his job on day 1 was to repeal Obama Care -- and I never once remember him saying he wanted to replace it with anything. Did he say this in one of the debates? I would like to see/read this if you have a copy or can find it -- i will search for it too....but I am not sure this is his plan.

I would ask though -- how can he replace it with anything? he doesnt have that power. he only has the power to "Not Veto" a bill that is passed to repeal Obama Care.

Mitt Romney Vows To Repeal And Replace Health Law



Mitt Romney: "I will keep parts of Obamacare"

 

[specsaregood]

A very well crafted message from a Romney operative sent here to sway votes.
A few mistakes gave him or her away, however.

sending somebody around that only reinforces many of us in our position of NOT voting for romney is just the the type of thing the romney camps seems to be intent on doing.

 

[LibertyPA]

What lesson does it teach them now if they give us the finger and we turn around and support them?

Again, you are correct. It teaches them no lesson. But voting for G.J. and then giving Obama 4 more years may also not teach them a lesson. In fact, if Obama gets 4 more years and does an even worse job (if that is possible), it may even give the republicans more power and care less about the Libertarian vote because most all people will vote for anyone but another Dem.
We cannot guess what will happen 4 years from now, but at the moment, if I had to have one person in the white houes for the next 4 years, I would rather Romney in that position over Obama -- are you saying you wouldn't?

 

[sailingaway]

Romney took 9 positions on abortion alone, all 'principled positions'. We have a different standard for sticking to principles, and find that laughable. If you can't trust him, how can you feel any confidence he'd be better than anyone else?

Also, I am not a GJ voter, I'm a Ron Paul voter.

And note that Romney's convention is the one that cheated Ron out of being nominated from the floor, disenfranchised our delegates, hence us, and for Pete's sake, had a bus with the leader of the opposition for a controversial rules change driven in circles until he missed the vote on the rules change, which Romney's convention pretended went for Romney's attorney's change. Which included retroactively changing the number of states needed to nominate a candidate from the floor -- after 6 had already filed to nominate Ron under prior rules requiring only 5.

What about a lesson from that?

 

[LibertyPA]

My apologies for confusing you with the other 1,000 folks who join after our campaign here is over to try to sway us to vote for someone else.

Seriously, I could care less what your intentions are here. My point is that Romney had a golden opportunity to at least draw consideration of some of our votes, and he and the establishment cheated, ignored, disenfrachised, and made it abundantly clear that we're not welcome in their tent.

You're barking up the wrong tree here. People aren't here for "lesser of two evils", vote for the guy who stinks a little less. We're here for real change. The blood isn't going to be on our hands.

Apology accepted. thank you for that, honestly I didn't think I would see anyone say this after all those earlier posts from many other people. I honestly appreciate you saying this.
I do agree Romney dropped the ball -- he is not a good choice. I am just making a point that there is a difference between the "Bad" Romney and "Worse" Obama.

And again, not trying to bark up any tree -- i didnt expect to be attacked when I made this post, i was hoping people in swing states would talk and give reasons for their Johnson or Romney votes. I didn't want this to be about "You vs me" ....clearly it failed.

You say you want real change, why not start with the first battle and one that can be corrected in the next few months by voting people in office to remove Obama Care? Once 2014 hits, it may be just as hard to remove Obama Care as it is to remove the EPA, The Fed, etc. So why not get this out of the picture now, while we can, and then pick a new battle in 4 years?

Thank you again for your post though, glad you stuck around and wanted to chat more.

 

[Dr.3D]

Apology accepted. thank you for that, honestly I didn't think I would see anyone say this after all those earlier posts from many other people. I honestly appreciate you saying this.
I do agree Romney dropped the ball -- he is not a good choice. I am just making a point that there is a difference between the "Bad" Romney and "Worse" Obama.

And again, not trying to bark up any tree -- i didnt expect to be attacked when I made this post, i was hoping people in swing states would talk and give reasons for their Johnson or Romney votes. I didn't want this to be about "You vs me" ....clearly it failed.

You say you want real change, why not start with the first battle and one that can be corrected in the next few months by voting people in office to remove Obama Care? Once 2014 hits, it may be just as hard to remove Obama Care as it is to remove the EPA, The Fed, etc. So why not get this out of the picture now, while we can, and then pick a new battle in 4 years?

Thank you again for your post though, glad you stuck around and wanted to chat more.

And replace it with something else?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-for-Johnson&p=4705444&viewfull=1#post4705444

 

[TheGrinch]

You say you want real change, why not start with the first battle and one that can be corrected in the next few months by voting people in office to remove Obama Care? Once 2014 hits, it may be just as hard to remove Obama Care as it is to remove the EPA, The Fed, etc. So why not get this out of the picture now, while we can, and then pick a new battle in 4 years?

Obamacare is jsut the latest in things that have to be drastically changed to change this country (and no, I do not have confidence that it's inventor Romney will overturn it after the Supreme Court just upheld it), but it won't happen with either of the Goldman-Sachs candidates.

Perhaps you do not have a good understanding of what this movement is about, but I can assure you it isn't to vote "lesser of two evils" two-party system that forces us into voting for awful corrupt bankster candidates. Then you add in the way that Romney and the establishment treated us without even paying lip-service to issues most Americans care about, along with the thought of 8 more years of sending our country into the toilet with Romney/Ryan who promise to balance the budget in 28 years when it's too late, and sorry, but no thanks.

 

[LibertyPA]

Romney took 9 positions on abortion alone, all 'principled positions'. We have a different standard for sticking to principles, and find that laughable. If you can't trust him, how can you feel any confidence he'd be better than anyone else?

Also, I am not a GJ voter, I'm a Ron Paul voter.

And note that Romney's convention is the one that cheated Ron out of being nominated from the floor, disenfranchised our delegates, hence us, and for Pete's sake, had a bus with the leader of the opposition for a controversial rules change driven in circles until he missed the vote on the rules change, which Romney's convention pretended went for Romney's attorney's change. Which included retroactively changing the number of states needed to nominate a candidate from the floor -- after 6 had already filed to nominate Ron under prior rules requiring only 5.

What about a lesson from that?

You can't tell me you "trust" Obama. So I cannot agree with your first point of not being able to trust romney, that is equal because you cannot trust obama either.

And I can understand you are upset about Romney altering elections (Obama did that also, that is how he got elected to the State Senate) - but is that enough to give Obama the election?

What "Lesson" are you teaching the Repubs by giving the election to Obama ... that next time, the Repubs need to pick a person MORE left wing to take votes from people voting for Obama?!?

 

[TheGrinch]

You can't tell me you "trust" Obama. So I cannot agree with your first point of not being able to trust romney, that is equal because you cannot trust obama either.

And I can understand you are upset about Romney altering elections (Obama did that also, that is how he got elected to the State Senate) - but is that enough to give Obama the election?

What "Lesson" are you teaching the Repubs by giving the election to Obama ... that next time, the Repubs need to pick a person MORE left wing to take votes from people voting for Obama?!?

Just stop. We're not giving anyone anything. They lost our votes. Understand, or do you not have any principles?

I was about to hold my nose and vote McCain last go round before he went and supported the bailouts. Never again. We're all fed up here with the direction this country is being taken by the establishment on both sides, so jsut save your breath (and please don't act offended, you know exactly what you're here to do, so don't act all innocent)

 

[KCIndy]

I do agree Romney dropped the ball -- he is not a good choice. I am just making a point that there is a difference between the "Bad" Romney and "Worse" Obama.

With all due respect.... there is no difference. None. If you really, truly believe that, I urge you to take a closer look. Romney and Obama are the same man.

 

[TheGrinch]

What is far more important this go round is to show that there are enough of us demanding another choice besides the crap that we're spoonfed every election. I don't care who you vote for, but I don't have to tell anyone here it won't be Obama or Romney.

 

[LibertyPA]

And replace it with something else?
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-for-Johnson&p=4705444&viewfull=1#post4705444

The first video he said repeal and replace and I think that was just another way of saying "get rid of it"

HOWEVER -- that second video is very upsetting.
He was "forced" into that answer from the far left wing Meet The Press host as he makes Romney sound like a bad person for taking away the "hand outs" given under Obama Care. Again though, I didn't see this and didn't know this. This is not good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want any federal health care.
Again, the only good thing is that Romney cannot do this! If Congress is filled with less Dems, and Obama care gets repealed, I cannot imagine Romney would veto their repeal. Obama would veto the repeal for sure.

But thank you again for sharing this -- it was a big isssue for me and this is very upsetting and making me question my future vote even more than i thought.

 

[LibertyPA]

With all due respect.... there is no difference. None. If you really, truly believe that, I urge you to take a closer look. Romney and Obama are the same man.

but that is why i started this thread -- to talk about these things.
I didnt expect people to yell at me about thigns and even your post -- can you please type more info or include links or something....not just say "look closer" because I have looked a bit, and I fear 4 more years of Obama without him having to look over his shoulder about getting re-elected, but I am here, spending my time to make posts and would take that time to read too, so share info with me, thanks!

 

[Dr.3D]

The first video he said repeal and replace and I think that was just another way of saying "get rid of it"

HOWEVER -- that second video is very upsetting.
He was "forced" into that answer from the far left wing Meet The Press host as he makes Romney sound like a bad person for taking away the "hand outs" given under Obama Care. Again though, I didn't see this and didn't know this. This is not good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want any federal health care.
Again, the only good thing is that Romney cannot do this! If Congress is filled with less Dems, and Obama care gets repealed, I cannot imagine Romney would veto their repeal. Obama would veto the repeal for sure.

But thank you again for sharing this -- it was a big isssue for me and this is very upsetting and making me question my future vote even more than i thought.

Well.... this has been brought up over and over again. So I just point over here as to the way things really are.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...son-is-a-vote-for-Obama&p=4703015#post4703015

 

[LibertyPA]

Obamacare is jsut the latest in things that have to be drastically changed to change this country (and no, I do not have confidence that it's inventor Romney will overturn it after the Supreme Court just upheld it), but it won't happen with either of the Goldman-Sachs candidates.

Perhaps you do not have a good understanding of what this movement is about, but I can assure you it isn't to vote "lesser of two evils" two-party system that forces us into voting for awful corrupt bankster candidates. Then you add in the way that Romney and the establishment treated us without even paying lip-service to issues most Americans care about, along with the thought of 8 more years of sending our country into the toilet with Romney/Ryan who promise to balance the budget in 28 years when it's too late, and sorry, but no thanks.

that is true, I am not part of the "movement", nor do i understand it.
I am Pro Constitution. I am Anti Big Goverment. I am Anti this 2-party system we have grown into. I do not support many issues Romney stands for. I support zero issues Obama stands for.
So to your comment, I dont understand what your movement is all about and i dont mean to post on here if this is only for those who are part of the movement. At the moment I am not part of, nor do i pretend to be, part of any movements - though I do hold many Libertarian views and like much of what R.Paul says.

 

[rpfocus]

With all due respect.... there is no difference. None. If you really, truly believe that, I urge you to take a closer look. Romney and Obama are the same man.

Agreed. I'm NEVER going to vote for Mitt. Sorry, I will not let GOP sheep convince me that voting my conscience is voting for Obama. ESPECIALLY after the way they treated Ron Paul supporters. I DON'T CARE IF MITT LOSES. I DON'T CARE IF OBAMA WINS. I DON'T CARE WHO YOU ARE VOTING FOR.

 

[TheGrinch]

Okay let's talk about Romney and Ryan, what we do know anyway:

1) Paul Ryan's so-called conservative budget plan won't balance the budget for 28 years (and that's quite optimistic, when you have no clue what future congresses and adminstrations will do). All the while we will jsut continue to rack up debt and interest.

2) There is no call to end wars and reduce military spending, only calls to raise it, as it becomes abundantly clear that our spending and interventionalism is unsustaianble at best, only making the situation worse at worst.

3) Won't even pay lip-service to ending the fed, which is stripping the wealth of 98% of Americans through the inflationary tax (more appropriate term than inflation)

4) Is not calling for repealing tremendous dangers to liberty and freedom, the Patriot Act, NDAA, drones, etc.

So really the only difference we're looking at is a slightly greater possibility he might feel pressured to repeal Obamacare that he invented in the first place, while both men are tremendous dangers to our economy, liberty and lives if you're standing in the way of their special interests enough. Does that sum it up, or should we continue with the reasons we can't trust Romney any more than Obama?

 

[Dr.3D]

that is true, I am not part of the "movement", nor do i understand it.
I am Pro Constitution. I am Anti Big Goverment. I am Anti this 2-party system we have grown into. I do not support many issues Romney stands for. I support zero issues Obama stands for.
So to your comment, I dont understand what your movement is all about and i dont mean to post on here if this is only for those who are part of the movement. At the moment I am not part of, nor do i pretend to be, part of any movements - though I do hold many Libertarian views and like much of what R.Paul says.

This isn't really a two party system. That sir is an illusion. It's a one party system and it doesn't matter who you vote for, you will lose your liberties just the same.

 

[TheGrinch]

that is true, I am not part of the "movement", nor do i understand it.
I am Pro Constitution. I am Anti Big Goverment. I am Anti this 2-party system we have grown into. I do not support many issues Romney stands for. I support zero issues Obama stands for.
So to your comment, I dont understand what your movement is all about and i dont mean to post on here if this is only for those who are part of the movement. At the moment I am not part of, nor do i pretend to be, part of any movements - though I do hold many Libertarian views and like much of what R.Paul says.

The bolded is the movement. It is a movement agaisnt the corrupt who don't care about our interests. Romney falls into that category along with Obama and the rest of the corrupt lackeys, all the wya down to the local level, as we leanred good and well throughout the primaries. We were cheated in so many ways, it's tough to count..

Dr. Paul, who's shown he cannot be bought, is one of the few you can trust to speak the truth. I wouldn't believe a word the bankster-backed establishment or media says.