Libertarian National Convention

[majinkoola]

This tells me she understands what's at stake. What I see happening mostly with the illegals is, they want to work here, but really just want to send the money home. They don't even want to be citizens because they can have a better life back home with the money they've earned here.

I certainly agree with that. I know and am friends with more illegal immigrants than probably anyone here. I've known neighbors at every house and had friends at school who were illegal immigrants. For the most part they want to work. But also for the most part they don't consider themselves Americans and they don't really want to be.

The question I always ask and never get a response from pro-open borders people: What if the libertarian economic policies are implemented alongside open borders and America suddenly becomes awesome again with Mexico remaining a bad country? A massive amount of immigrants would come into this country. Would they spread across the country? No, they'd stay near their home country, in the Southwest. That's what both Mexicans and Canadians do now. You don't see many Canadians in New Mexico or many Mexicans in Minnesota. Or Cubans in Oregon. If they're given citizenship, and come over in this mass, the Southwest would be de facto Mexico. And what would prevent these states from seceding?

Again, I know the racist card will be pulled. That might be the reasoning behind some people opposing unchecked immigration, but not me, and not a lot of people. I'm glad it's Mexico on the border rather than France, Germany, or pretty much any European country. The open borders policy defines a country as solely a set of laws, and I don't agree.

 

[TheConstitutionLives]

+1

+2

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Umm, banning oral sex on the state level or any level is not, and should not be, a right that can be legislated away. The government has no place in our bedrooms!

The government also has no place forcing people accept immorality as morally neutral behavior. Let's not have the state imposing socially liberal views on social conservatives either. Marriage should not be legislated by the state at all. Nor should government be classifying elective behavior (homosexuality) as a yet another civil rights victim class; individuals have rights, not groups.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

This is for crazy fingers

Barr is for marijuana and gay rights. He has said many, many times that the government has no place in the bedroom of citizens.

Now, if you don't stop blatantly lying I will report you. Again, you don't have to like him, but do not lie and spread lies.

 

[acroso]

S.C.

The government also has no place forcing people accept immorality as morally neutral behavior. Let's not have the state imposing socially liberal views on social conservatives either. Marriage should not be legislated by the state at all. Nor should government be classifying elective behavior (homosexuality) as a yet another civil rights victim class; individuals have rights, not groups.

Even if the S.C. says it does? Thomas and Scalia thought Texas could ban Sodomy. The weaker the Federal Government is the better especially if it's enforcing rights not in the constitution.

 

[majinkoola]

So that means the majority of 53% of legal Mexican-Americans voted against the bill outlawing business hiring illegal immigrants.

A lot of those 53% of legal Mexican-Americans are legal because they received citizenship as relatives to anchor babies in this country. They will of course support illegal immigration. But overall a good majority of the state has voted to control illegal immigration. Your point was that immigration was not a big issue for Arizonans. I have overwhelmingly refuted that. Live in the state for a year, then talk. It's talked about in the news and among people all the time. Oh well, keep rambling about something you have absolutely no idea about.

Regarding what to do with illegal immigrants: Arizona first tried to pass an act which would remove all social welfare for illegals, but it was construed by the attorney general to only apply to the discretionary state budget. That would have worked better if implemented properly.

But I never said I was for the federal gov't putting sanctions on businesses. What AZ passed recently has already started to take an effect. A lot of illegal immigrants have moved to other states or back to Mexico.

Effective immigration policy is not why this discussion started though. It started because you act as though it's a wedge issue which doesn't matter, when that is completely and utterly false and spoken out of ignorance. Speak about what you know.

That goes as well to those people who were bashing Ruwart for supposedly wanting to raise fees or taxes.

Just do a little research.

 

[familydog]

This is for crazy fingers

Barr is for marijuana and gay rights. He has said many, many times that the government has no place in the bedroom of citizens.

Now, if you don't stop blatantly lying I will report you. Again, you don't have to like him, but do not lie and spread lies.

If Barr is for "gay rights" he is no libertarian. Libertarians believe all people should have rights because they are indivuduals, not because they belong to a certain group.

 

[acroso]

re-phrase

If Barr is for "gay rights" he is no libertarian. Libertarians believe all people should have rights because they are indivuduals, not because they belong to a certain group.

What if he's in favor of allowing men to marry men? or women to marry men. Or women to marry women?

 

[rockandrollsouls]

If Barr is for "gay rights" he is no libertarian. Libertarians believe all people should have rights because they are indivuduals, not because they belong to a certain group.

I know this, and don't try to lecture me on it like you have me on some technicality. I've stated earlier in the thread it was equal rights for everyone, but used the word "gay rights" to address crazy fingers. Barr has stated, repeatedly, that government has no place in the bedroom of the citizens. So again, I don't appreciate the smart remarks and over analysis of my statements, and I don't appreciate the blatant lying.

 

[familydog]

I know this, and don't try to lecture me on it like you have me on some technicality. I've stated earlier in the thread it was equal rights for everyone, but used the word "gay rights" to address crazy fingers. Barr has stated, repeatedly, that government has no place in the bedroom of the citizens. So again, I don't appreciate the smart remarks and over analysis of my statements, and I don't appreciate the blatant lying.

Oh, I'm lying. You got me.

 

[familydog]

What if he's in favor of allowing men to marry men? or women to marry men. Or women to marry women?

That's fine. But the rationale shouldn't be because they are "gay." The rationale should be because they are individuals and deserve the same rights as every other individual.

 

[Bradley in DC]

The question I always ask and never get a response from pro-open borders people: What if the libertarian economic policies are implemented alongside open borders and America suddenly becomes awesome again with Mexico remaining a bad country? A massive amount of immigrants would come into this country.

So long as the relatively few who come here send money back home (and we're not stupid enough to follow policies retarding remittances), the relative imbalances would narrow and the marginal change would be to ameliorate the factors encouraging immigration here.

 

[forsmant]

That's fine. But the rationale shouldn't be because they are "gay." The rationale should be because they are individuals and deserve the same rights as every other individual.

Doesn't that make them gay?

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Oh, I'm lying. You got me.

crazy fingers is lying, not you. If you were to tell people the opposite of what Barr has said in regards to his position on issues you'd be lying, too . And , apparently you can't use the word gay now because it's not politically correct and we shouldn't see people in groups. Listen, don't blow that out of proportion. I simply said "gay rights" because it was quicker and you'd know exactly what I was talking about. I don't need to be preached to about technicalities...come on now.

 

[acroso]

gay

crazy fingers is lying, not you. If you were to tell people the opposite of what Barr has said in regards to his position on issues you'd be lying, too . And , apparently you can't use the word gay now because it's not politically correct and we shouldn't see people in groups. Listen, don't blow that out of proportion. I simply said "gay rights" because it was quicker and you'd know exactly what I was talking about. I don't need to be preached to about technicalities...come on now.

Well that, and it "puts people into categories" and then by definition that constitutes "collectivism." In fact language itself is immoral since it's based on categories.

I'm joking of course. Who gives a shit. Call people whatever the hell you want.

 

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Should 2 male farm animals also be called a mating pair?

The issue that people, including me, have against gay marriage, is that marriage is something between a man and a woman. Period. There is nothing wrong with choosing a different word. Why can't gays, who demand respect, have enough respect for heterosexuals, that they create and use their own special word, instead of purposefully causing offense to those that hold the word so dear. The world has not run out of useful words, go make your own, "marriage" belongs to heterosexual couples only. Stop being such damned hypocrites demanding the world show you the same respect when you fight so hard to redefine something so special to others.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

Well that, and it "puts people into categories" and then by definition that constitutes "collectivism." In fact language itself is immoral since it's based on categories.

I'm joking of course. Who gives a shit. Call people whatever the hell you want.

haha i know...you can't say much without having it over analyzed, can you

Everyone is created equal.... prohibiting these equal people from professing there love is unconstitutional. It's like when interracial marriage was looked down upon. Here's my advice. Get over it. If that's how you feel and how your religious institution feels, you don't have to have a part in marrying anyone, but it doesn't mean you can govern these peoples lives.

 

[Menthol Patch]

I'm saddened and disturbed to hear that the LP has nominated Bob Barr the neo-con anti-freedom drug warrior as their presidential nominee. It's absolutely insane that the party of principle would nominate someone that is responsible for putting thousands or tens of thousands of innocent people in prison when they did not violate the rights of others. One fundamental principle of the Libertarian Party is that the drug war is insane and that everyone has a right to put what they want into their own bodies. To nominate someone that supported the Drug War and was one of it's biggest supporters is crazy!

THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY MIGHT AS WELL HAVE NOMINATED AN IRS AGENT!

Also, Bob Barr was so unprincipled that he voted for the Patriot Act. Bob Barr is an absolute NEO-CON and the fact that the LP nominated him should make true Libertarians vomit!

He also does not want to abolish the income tax and replace it with NOTHING! He actually supports the "Fair Tax" which would put a huge sales tax on all citizens!

It's sad that some libertarians are willing to give up their principles in order to try and get votes!

The Libertarian Party just died today.

 

[familydog]

crazy fingers is lying, not you. If you were to tell people the opposite of what Barr has said in regards to his position on issues you'd be lying, too . And , apparently you can't use the word gay now because it's not politically correct and we shouldn't see people in groups. Listen, don't blow that out of proportion. I simply said "gay rights" because it was quicker and you'd know exactly what I was talking about. I don't need to be preached to about technicalities...come on now.

I wasn't preaching and I had no idea what you meant. Maybe you need to stop taking short cuts lol. Chill out, take a breath. Quit being so oversensitive.

 

[rockandrollsouls]

I'm saddened and disturbed to hear that the LP has nominated Bob Barr the neo-con anti-freedom drug warrior as their presidential nominee. It's absolutely insane that the party of principle would nominate someone that is responsible for putting thousands or tens of thousands of innocent people in prison when they did not violate the rights of others. One fundamental principle of the Libertarian Party is that the drug war is insane and that everyone has a right to put what they want into their own bodies. To nominate someone that supported the Drug War and was one of it's biggest supporters is crazy!

THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY MIGHT AS WELL HAVE NOMINATED AN IRS AGENT!

Also, Bob Barr was so unprincipled that he voted for the Patriot Act. Bob Barr is an absolute NEO-CON and the fact that the LP nominated him should make true Libertarians vomit!

He also does not want to abolish the income tax and replace it with NOTHING! He actually supports the "Fair Tax" which would put a huge sales tax on all citizens!

It's sad that some libertarians are willing to give up their principles in order to try and get votes!

The Libertarian Party just died today.

Please cite your sources. Bob Barr has admitted to his past mistakes. The fact of the matter is your precious Libertarian party has never gotten anything done, and this is a contributing reason as to why the country is spiraling out of control. Bob Barr is a godsend because he will create progress in the party. You can hate him all you want, but don't ignorantly lie about his positions. It's rude and uncalled for. As for me, I'm looking forward to seeing the Lib. Party actually accomplish something.