Levin just name dropped Rand Paul for President

[AuH20]

Sure they associate with team red. They want team red to win. Convince them we can field a winning player for team red.

Their job is to protect the interests of team red. No more. Hannity will ambush Rand when the time is right. You watch.

 

[itshappening]

Rush and Hannity are getting their listeners ready for the GOP sell out on amnesty.

Rand can and should oppose it when it comes up.

A lot of conservatives in Iowa will not be happy with candidates who vote for amnesty such as Sen. Rubio.

 

[Origanalist]

Well if everyone else takes the same attitude as you two, we will lose again. Is that what you want?

Nobody needs to be banned from anything, you just can't get us branded as fringe again. Look Rand has all the right principles but is willing to play the games Ron didn't. The end result will be that he can win where his dad didn't. Some people are probably going to have to bite their tongues next time to get it done.

Who are you trying to kid? They are going to brand us as fringe no matter what, the only way to win is tro put their hypocrisy on bright and shining display for all the world to see.

 

[69360]

Rush and Hannity are getting their listeners ready for the GOP sell out on amnesty.

Rand can and should oppose it when it comes up.

A lot of conservatives in Iowa will not be happy with candidates who vote for amnesty such as Sen. Rubio.

Is amnesty really the most important issue in our country right now? We're falling off a fiscal cliff that's our real problem. Give the ones that are here all green cards, make them pay taxes, no entitlements, apply for citizenship, done. Why can't we live with that? I have to doubt that illegals is a hot button issue in IA and NH.

Who are you trying to kid? They are going to brand us as fringe no matter what, the only way to win is tro put their hypocrisy on bright and shining display for all the world to see.

If you challenge them, you're fringe. The best plan is to stay quiet except when there is common ground. As long as Rand or any other candidate continues to vote the way he does and pushes our ideas in government, I don't see why we need to rock the boat? We've already found out that it doesn't work.

 

[Origanalist]

Is amnesty really the most important issue in our country right now? We're falling off a fiscal cliff that's our real problem. Give the ones that are here all green cards, make them pay taxes, no entitlements, apply for citizenship, done. Why can't we live with that? I have to doubt that illegals is a hot button issue in IA and NH.



If you challenge them, you're fringe. The best plan is to stay quiet except when there is common ground. As long as Rand or any other candidate continues to vote the way he does and pushes our ideas in government, I don't see why we need to rock the boat? We've already found out that it doesn't work.

Of course, just think of all the great things accomplished in history by not rocking the boat! Now is the time to highlight their failures and why they are wrong.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

If Levin, Limbaugh, or any of the other establishment kooks come out and support him in 2016, I know Rand has been completely compromised.

Either that or Levine is compromised.

 

[Occam's Banana]

Is amnesty really the most important issue in our country right now? We're falling off a fiscal cliff that's our real problem. Give the ones that are here all green cards, make them pay taxes, no entitlements, apply for citizenship, done. Why can't we live with that? I have to doubt that illegals is a hot button issue in IA and NH.

Immigration - like abortion - is one of those issues the GOP establishment trots out whenever it wants to rile up the base. The GOP poobahs, however, don't really have any other use for it, and I do not think they really give a damn about it, one way or the other. Its just red meat used to distract the rank-and-file from the things that really matter. However, the recent election results have apparently led the GOPoobahs to the conclusion that the issue is now more of a liability than it's worth (i.e., that it's energizing more of the Dems' base than their own). That's the reason we're seeing this "refurbishment" being engineered by Rubio, et al. - and why Limbaugh & Co. (doing their jobs as the mouthpieces of the GOPoobahs) are gearing up to smooth the feathers of the Republican base.

However, they would NOT do such a thing when it comes to issues that really DO matter to them - such as preserving the corporate welfare system and the Military-Industrail Complex, engaging in aggressively interventionist foreign policy, defending the Federal Reserve system, etc. In other words, they WILL do a lot of things - such as hypocritically reverse & blatantly violate their previously declared policies, positions, and agendas - just for the sake of getting Republicans (re)elected. But they WON'T do "just anything" in order to accomplish that - not if it has any significant chance of endangering the system they are hell-bound on preserving & expanding.

Rand Paul is a serious danger to that system. Maybe not as flagrant and "in your face" a danger as his father was (and is), but a serious danger nonetheless. They will not tolerate Rand getting anywhere near the Oval Office, and to that end, there is not a chance in hell that Limbaugh or any other stalwart GOPoobah mouthpiece will EVER "get behind" Rand, no matter how good his chances of electoral success might be. Imperiling the system that makes them and their cronies fantastically rich & powerful is NOT a price they will be willing to pay for something as (ultimately) trivial as the office of POTUS. In fact, far from "getting behind" Rand, the more likely it seems that he might have a legitimate shot at winning, the more vigorously they'll sharpen their knives.

Oh, they'll be making kissy-faces at him all the while, I am sure. (Can't afford to alienate the base, after all.) But they'll have murder in their hearts.

 

[dbill27]

I often laugh at republicans who have a largely negative view of ron paul but a positive one of rand despite them being incredibly similiar in opinion on almost every issue except messaging it different. Then I think of the ron paul supporters who have a negative view of rand and I can't help but think they're just as dumb

 

[AuH20]

Either that or Levine is compromised.

Levin is very big on the expression of private property rights and the free market. This is where Rand could corral him. The only problem with Levin is that he is so black and white with the national security issues, especially due to his own Jewish heritage. But Levin is far more objective and genuine than Hannity and Limbaugh. The other two are paid agent provocateurs as exhibited by their top billing.

 

[Galileo Galilei]

Levin is very big on the expression of private property rights and the free market. This is where Rand could corral him. The only problem with Levin is that he is so black and white with the national security issues, especially due to his own Jewish heritage. But Levin is far more objective and genuine than Hannity and Limbaugh. The other two are paid agent provocateurs as exhibited by their top billing.

Rand's strategy is to simply demand o vote on whether to go to war. Rand does not take a position of the war, unless a debate and then a vote on the war is taken. This strategy will work as long as Obama is president.

 

[AuH20]

And Levin like Beck know the deal generally, especially about the true nature of the Fox News Channel. Look at this recent tweet:

marklevinshow Given Rupert Murdoch's well known & often stated radicalism on amnesty, this may explain the new push for amnesty by so many on Fox. 3 hours ago· reply · retweet · favorite

There is alot of ground to be made here.

 

[WesSeid]

Don't be so hard on yourself man. When I was in high school, I read The Way Things Ought To Be by Limbaugh, and I thought I stumbled onto the one and only truth of the universe.

(I haven't read it in a while, but...) The problem isn't books like that. There's actually plenty of good stuff in there about freedom and choice and personal responsibility, etc. The problem is, at least when it comes to certain issues, Limbaugh is a big-government neocon who throws it all out the window and becomes a hypocrite.

If/when Rand runs it's going to be a lot more mainstream. The alliance with McConnell is an obvious sign of that. McConnell today not willing to cave on tax increases is a good sign.

I kind of wish the Republicans would give in on returning "the rich" tax rate to what it was under Clinton. Because, at the most, that would bring in less than 100 billion dollars a year. The deficit is over 1 trillion dollars a year. So you let the Democrats and the 99% have their tax increase on the rich, and then you say, "ok, now what is your plan for the other 900+ billion dollars of the deficit? Can we start cutting spending now?"

Btw, on immigration, that's probably the one issue I thought Romney was the strongest on. And now the GOP is already looking at doing the opposite. Romney might have won if he had just toned down the war rhetoric.

Another btw, look at how Glenn Beck is often at odds with Limbaugh and whomever else. Beck has a large audience yet often fights with the other "conservative" hosts. You can disagree with Limbaugh and still be as mainstream as Beck or similar.

I'm curious where the apparently-reborn Tea Party is going to go and what they are going to do. It looks like they are planning to be more conservative like they used to be.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I often laugh at republicans who have a largely negative view of ron paul but a positive one of rand despite them being incredibly similiar in opinion on almost every issue except messaging it different. Then I think of the ron paul supporters who have a negative view of rand and I can't help but think they're just as dumb

Ron Paul has a 30 year history of doing the right thing in spite of some questionable endorsements at times. And he never (ever!) bowed down to establishment types like Limbaugh or Hannity...I'm not sure he's ever been invited on their show.

Rand has only been a Senator for 2 years, and while his voting record is pretty darned good, I'm worried about why he's so acceptable to these establishment warmongers when his Father was not.

Evidently, he's playing a game...but with whom? Will Rand change them, or will they marginalize him when they figure it out? Or worse, will they change him when he sees he can go farther than his Father did by adopting Limbaugh's and Hannity's points of view. That's what worries me. And there's not a whole lot anyone here can say to alleviate those concerns....I can only wait and see what Rand does, and hope I'm not disappointed again.

In spite of what Bastiat's The Law and others here think, I really WANT to support Rand; I just want him to be the man his Father is.

 

[tod evans]

In spite of what Bastiat's The Law and others here think, I really WANT to support Rand; I just want him to be the man his Father is.

He grew up in a different era.....It's possible that he learned enough from his dad to be as good of a man as Ron is....Only time will tell.

 

[cajuncocoa]

He grew up in a different era.....It's possible that he learned enough from his dad to be as good of a man as Ron is....Only time will tell.

Most of us on this board grew up in a different era than Ron.

 

[PaleoPaul]

Most of us on this board grew up in a different era than Ron.

I think the difference is, Dr. Paul (the dad) is more ideological, while Dr. Paul (the son) is more practical.

It's fine to be ideological; I've got my share of rigid ideologies myself. But if you want to win the grand prize, you've gotta be pragmatic. Now, pragmatic doesn't mean sacrificing core principles. It just means playing along while marketing your core principles to a wide audience.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

In spite of what Bastiat's The Law and others here think, I really WANT to support Rand; I just want him to be the man his Father is.

I seriously find it hard to believe that anyone growing up in the Ron household could be deficient in terms of character and integrity. Rand has been following his dad's career from early on and has seen the ups and downs. He also strikes me as a self-driven learner that strives to overcome challenges and thus will outdo any and all jerkoffs in the media and elsewhere to achieve success and has shown that. I also believe Rand sees himself as Atlas with the weight of the world on his shoulders and he's investing his intelligence in taking on the establishment with the ultimate goal of proving how epic of a politician he is and to improve the lives of posterity. He realizes that he has to take a different approach than his dad did and this is where people justifiably tend to worry. Rand isn't the type of person that is willing to shit on his father's legacy just so he can hobnob with the scumbags on W@ll st or Capital hill. He's out to ensure his father's career wasn't a waste and to pay back all the motherf-ers that belittled his dad for so long. And that's where his stealth is a means to an end.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

/technical difficulties

 

[Occam's Banana]

Ron Paul has a 30 year history of doing the right thing in spite of some questionable endorsements at times. And he never (ever!) bowed down to establishment types like Limbaugh or Hannity...I'm not sure he's ever been invited on their show.

I know he's been on Hannity, at least once. Hannity, of course, could not pass up the opportunity to piss & whine about the snowball incident. And after that, Hannity once had the temerity to complain to Rand that he didn't understand why Ron wasn't accepting any of Hannity's subsequent invitations.

Rand has only been a Senator for 2 years, and while his voting record is pretty darned good, I'm worried about why he's so acceptable to these establishment warmongers when his Father was not.

The thing is, if all of us had been around back in the 1970s when Ron was still a noob in Congress himself, we could have expressed EXACTLY the same concerns about Ron. And I have NO doubt that there are many of us who would have raked him over the coals and denounced him as loudly, viciously and vehemently as some of us have denounced Rand. "Why is Ron endorsing and campaigning for a warmonger like Reagan? My God! The man used to be a union boss! He used to be a liberal Democrat! Ron Paul is an impostor! A sellout! A traitor! ..."

Isn't it unfair not to give Rand the same benefit of the doubt we would all like to think we would have given to Ron?

Evidently, he's playing a game...but with whom? Will Rand change them, or will they marginalize him when they figure it out?

No, Rand won't change them. Not most of them anyway. He *might* soften some of them up - the ones sincerely concerned with the future of the Republican party, anyway (as opposed to merely preserving the status quo).

And yes. They WILL marginalize him. It's already begun, in fact (the "GOP insider" poll re: 2016 POTUS contenders - Rand was not even considered).

The question isn't "with whom is he playing a game?" but "for what stakes." I really don't think he's trying to win over the establishment types like McConnell (or their shills in the media like Limbaugh). He's trying to win over the rank-and-file, without the support of whom he cannot hope to succeed. His relationships with the McConnells and the Hannitys are directed toward that purpose. Of course, the McConnells and Hannitys are, in their turn, using him for their own purposes. As ugly as it is, this is the nature of electoral politics (or *any* kind of politics, for that matter).

Will Rand be successful? If so, to what degree? Or will he succumb to the siren-song of power, prestige and the easy popularity of charismatic men who go along to get along (as so many good men have done before)?

I don't know the answer to any of those questions ... and neither does anyone else. Not even Rand himself. Anyone who claims otherwise is a fool and/or liar.

Or worse, will they change him when he sees he can go farther than his Father did by adopting Limbaugh's and Hannity's points of view.

Rand is not a stupid man. In fact, he strikes me as being remarkably shrewd. He already knows perfectly well that he can go a LOT farther than his father by "going native." He really doesn't need McConnell, Hannity & Co. to show him this. He's not perfect, and shouldn't be expected to be. He WILL make mistakes. Mistakes in strategy, mistakes in judgement, etc. When he makes them, we should hold his toes to the fire, to be sure. But we shouldn't burn him at the stake unless we're certain he's become the Devil's Servant and until he gives a real, tangible reason for concluding that has gone over to the Dark Side (by actually *doing* something - like introducing or voting for anti-liberty legislation - rather than merely because we don't like some expedient endorsement or useful alliance he's made, or because his rhetoric doesn't contain enough "red meat" to suit our tastes). He needs us, but he also needs us to understand that he needs more than JUST us.

Rest assured, he WILL be saying things that we are going to find quite alarming at times. He already has. The only thing that's important, though - the only thing that counts for anything, in the end - is what his "other hand" is doing (how he votes in Congress, and what legislation he introduces & sponsors).

That's what worries me. And there's not a whole lot anyone here can say to alleviate those concerns....I can only wait and see what Rand does, and hope I'm not disappointed again.

That is the one and only thing any of us can do. We simply don't have any more control over the matter than that. We may end up betrayed & bitterly disappointed. We may end up amazed & delighted beyond our wildest hopes. Probably we will end up somewhere in between - hopefully, somewhere closer to the amazed & delighted end of the spectrum.

I just want him to be the man his Father is.

As do I. And the signs are quite good ... so far. Only time will tell. But one thing is certain. Even if he *is* the man his father is, he won't be able to be that man in the same way that his father was. He *will* have his own idiom. Not only because he's not an exact clone of his father - he has a different temperament, experiences, etc. (as we all differ from our parents) - but because he's taking a different path than his father did. Ron has always been very forthcoming about the fact that his chief purpose has always been education and "keeping the flame alive" - NOT in "legislative success" (measured in terms of getting bills passed, etc.). Rand, though, IS shooting for legislative success. And it's going to be extremely difficult - in many ways, it's going to be much more difficult than anything his father has had to face. He has GOT to have help (i.e. more pro-liberty Congressmembers) and he has GOT to play party politics. That is going to be VERY unnerving to many of us. Many of us will not be able to stomach or tolerate it. But education will only get us so far. Sooner or later, the rubber has GOT to meet the road, or we'll get nowhere.

And time is running out.

 

[Odin]

Limbaugh and Hannity want to win at all cost. That's why they flipped on immigration today. Our job is to convince them that our ideas and our candidate can win.

Hannity at least didn't endorse anyone in the 2012 primaries, although it's safe to say that in the 2008 primaries he was pretty visceral toward Ron Paul but he wasn't so bad in 2012.

Whatever happens in the next 4 years is going to help shape people's perceptions. You can bet that if Obama starts a war they will all suddenly become anti-war.