xFiFtyOnE
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Immigration: Letting illegals buy citizenship...would Paul support?
- Thread starter rpwi
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erowe1
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Jobs aren't some finite resource where when one person has one that's one fewer jobs for everyone else. A job is an agreement between two people who agree to exchange one's labor for the other's money. I have a right to enter an agreement like that with whomever I want, and nobody can say, "he took my job."
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CaptainAmerica
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hell to the no on this idea.
erowe1
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A green card is not citizenship.
I agree. In 1953 the head of the Immigration and Naturalization Service introduced a program to begin deporting everyone that even LOOKED Hispanic. In 1954 "Operation Wetback" was launched and mass deportations took place. In less than five years, the unemployment rate doubled! Adding insult to injury, the unemployment would not go down to the level it was then until the year 2000.
But wait, there's more:
Several years ago, radio talk show host Neal Boortz said he had divided America into nine periods to reflect the working careers of American people. According to Boortz, our most prosperous years were between 1982 and 2007. In that time period, Americans had the most in assets, the best paying jobs and highest standard of living.
In 1986 the Immigration and Naturalization Service stated we had some 10 MILLION undocumented people in the U.S. with an additional TWO MILLION more entering annually. Between 1986 and the year 2000, we had SEVEN AMNESTIES!
Okay, we have 10 MILLION undocumented foreigners, TWO MILLION more entering annually, seven amnesties and open borders, yet we manage to live the most prosperous years of our lives. The facts kind of fly in the face of people like Rick Belmont.
Rick Belmont makes this ludicrous claim that "illegal immigration" takes away jobs. First off, jobs don't belong to Americans nor even citizens. Jobs belong to the employer that creates them. That is the essence of a free market economy. Belmont then uses a few videos, showing us some extremists and Belmont then states:
"The mythology is that illegal aliens from Mexico just want a better life. However, what they tend to project is extreme racial nationalism (while calling others racist):"
Belmont would have you believe that ALL Mexicans are racists based upon a couple of videos showing a few extremists. Belmont condemns all Mexicans on the basis of what a FEW do. Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black?
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At this moment, immigration is managed by this agency http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis.
Who will handle the "path to citizenship" if it was not the job of the Federal Govt. I am all for not having more government intervention, but somebody has to be able to help people that want to lawfully immigrate to the USA. This seems like it SHOULD be one of the few jobs that the govt actually focuses on. I dont see any other great options besides make it a private business or just do away with any laws regarding immigration and simply stop worrying about it.
First of all the libertarian/free market position is open borders because immigration laws are an embargo on the labor market. Obviously you can't really do this if you have a welfare state, but regardless Ron Paul is NOT a libertarian on this issue, although his stances on it are somewhat reasonable.
When people talk about immigration, they fail to mention a few key things:
1. The legal entry is massively difficult and confusing. This needs to be improved. The GOP candidates talk about "getting in line", but where's the line?
2. We subsidize brilliant foreign students here to come study advanced science and then don't let them stay.
3. Immigrants create jobs, especially skilled ones. Google and Yahoo created some of the most jobs in the last 15 years and they were founded by immigrants! Skilled immigrants is a huge boon to our society. Look at the Manhattan Project or the Apollo projects - they were led by immigrants ( I know they were government projects but whatever). This is probably due to our anti-intellectual culture but for better or worse much of our technology comes from immigrants.
4. For unskilled workers, you MUST understand that the current way to get rid of them is a racist smoke screen. If you seriously want to get rid of them, just jail people who blatantly employ them. There are far fewer of them and they have much more to lose. The reason we don't is because there is an econmic demand for cheap labor, and consistent with libertarian philosophy, it's very hard for the government to fight market forces. Ron Paul has this backwards in my opinion. You need immigration reform focused on letting more immigrants in here legally in SOME way BEFORE you talk about securing the border.
When people talk about immigration, they fail to mention a few key things:
1. The legal entry is massively difficult and confusing. This needs to be improved. The GOP candidates talk about "getting in line", but where's the line?
2. We subsidize brilliant foreign students here to come study advanced science and then don't let them stay.
3. Immigrants create jobs, especially skilled ones. Google and Yahoo created some of the most jobs in the last 15 years and they were founded by immigrants! Skilled immigrants is a huge boon to our society. Look at the Manhattan Project or the Apollo projects - they were led by immigrants ( I know they were government projects but whatever). This is probably due to our anti-intellectual culture but for better or worse much of our technology comes from immigrants.
4. For unskilled workers, you MUST understand that the current way to get rid of them is a racist smoke screen. If you seriously want to get rid of them, just jail people who blatantly employ them. There are far fewer of them and they have much more to lose. The reason we don't is because there is an econmic demand for cheap labor, and consistent with libertarian philosophy, it's very hard for the government to fight market forces. Ron Paul has this backwards in my opinion. You need immigration reform focused on letting more immigrants in here legally in SOME way BEFORE you talk about securing the border.
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You have a lot of that right, but some of it wrong.
I've heard Ron Paul, even in presidential debates, admit that the immigration laws needed to be changed so as to make it easier for some groups.
Secondly, the border is quite secure. You come to a point where it is security versus Liberty. We've now crossed that line.
Finally, you are absolutely RIGHT about the "line" analogy. NO SUCH LINE EXISTS. Sometimes one state will have faster service than another and foreigners change addresses depending upon the over-all competency of immigration employees in one area versus another.
We need to create a Guest Worker program and get rid of this ridiculous immigration argument.
