Let's see how far this tax protestor/ evader goes with arguments

the only laws that apply are the laws that protect my natural rights. and the natural rights of others. paying a tax because i live on land i own to pay to send other peoples kids to school...... is not protecting mine or anybody elses natural rights. no government has the right to govern you without your consent, and people like this who have a whole lot more balls than i do need to keep up the good fight. its not only your right to disobey an unjust law it is your DUTY to disobey it!
 
its not only your right to disobey an unjust law it is your DUTY to disobey it!
"it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." - Declaration of Independence, American

Right on! Declare YOUR Independence!
 
the only laws that apply are the laws that protect my natural rights. and the natural rights of others. paying a tax because i live on land i own to pay to send other peoples kids to school...... is not protecting mine or anybody elses natural rights. no government has the right to govern you without your consent, and people like this who have a whole lot more balls than i do need to keep up the good fight. its not only your right to disobey an unjust law it is your DUTY to disobey it!

so as long as I say it's my natural right, I'll cherry pick what laws apply to me.
 
The current rulings, however are that the Supreme Court has decided that they will not entertain any anti - tax arguments. That does not mean that our interpretations are not valid; it just says that the Supreme Court believes it is above the people.

and ain't that all that matters?
 
"About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That's according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3622644...f-us-pays-no-federal-income-tax/#.TxpUSIGfW9s

LOL, exactly as I suspected, income too low, or legally qualfied for deductions, FULLY LEGAL. No conspiracy, voluntary, constitutional arguments. None of these people claim they are smarter than the IRS, or will be harassed by any agents, because they filed properly and hide nothing. They are not protesters, and they don't claim it's voluntary.
 
so as long as I say it's my natural right, I'll cherry pick what laws apply to me.
That is the only decent and human position. Anything else, you're turning your back on your humanity and trying to instead be an automaton.

As for me, I choose to not be a pawn for tyrants. I'll be a human being. I'm glad to hear you'll join me.
 
None of these people claim they are smarter than the IRS, or will be harassed by any agents, because they filed properly and hide nothing.

Actually, the part I put in bold is not entirely correct. Even with the IRS rules, the filing requirement is for "taxable income" to be above a certain amount, below which there is no filing requirement. So not all "filed properly", as you put it, because not all were required to do so. This leads to one of the arguments made by those who have fought the IRS in court before juries, like attorney Tom Cryer of Shreveport, LA, who argues that he does not have enough of the particular kind of wages, or income, which are undefined in terms that meet with a 16th Amendment definition of income which is taxable.

One of the biggest problems facing those who take an anti-tax stance, and who challenge the maze of legal tax verbiage by Congress, the Treasury and the IRS, is that that cases will ultimately be decided by a jury (or a judge, should a right to a jury trial be waived). That is an enormous risk for anyone to take, given that it may not matter whether you are correct or not, because your fate is ultimately in the hands of the jury and the courts -- and societal perceptions. And perception is everything. If you don't believe that, ask the average person on the street if the money from their credit account came from other people's deposits. Ask them what happens to their money when they deposit it with a "bank", and whether it is even theirs or not. Ask them about the Federal Reserve, and what part of the government they believe it comes from. Ask the average person - who will be the average juror - about a whole host of things WHICH ARE NOT IN DISPUTE, and see what they say.

So attorney Tom Cryer happens to successfully defend himself in federal court, while Irwin Schiff, Peter Schiff's father, is unsuccessful, and ends up convicted by a jury of his so-called peers. For most:

You don't tug on Superman's cape
You don't spit into the wind
You don't pull the mask off that old Lone Ranger
And you don't mess around with ENTRENCHED POWER.

Anyone who makes a vocal stink ends up targeted. Bullied. Examples are made, and since you really are beating a hornet's nest, your chances of getting stung are massive. It's not a question of being right - or the law. It is no different, in principle, than Rosa Parks' chances of getting away with not giving up her seat on the bus when commanded. It's a question of power, normalcy bias, status quo, and general perceptions, which includes whatever mealy-mouthed government worshiping cowards declare to was moral, fair, or just, or right, simply because it's the way the law or government somehow works. That kind of of cowardly normalcy thinking is what got millions of Jews and others rounded up and gassed.

Which brings us, of course, to that stinking, rotten cancerous portion of the population - that tyrannous would-be majority, as prophetically described by Alexander Fraser Tytler, which majority "...discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy."

And that's your jury of peers as well, and good luck with that as well.
 
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And you're not amazed that the "land of the free" has prisons? Why do you assume you know better about the law than law enforcement, and somehow no lawyer, judge, trained professional in law agrees with you? Ahh yes, they're all conspiring to screw you! Somehow you're the only enlightened person in this, and people have been duped for 100 years if not 220.

Seriously? The United States is 5% of the world's population but is home to 25% of the world's prisoners. It is a Citizen's duty to not only reject immoral laws but to make sure that they are not enforced. The United States Supreme Court holds that any law, federal or state, that violates the Constitution is null and void. If an amendment to the Constitution did not meet the requirements laid down in the Constitution for ratification... It is not ratified. It does not matter if everyone just goes along with the lie. It does not change the Constitution.
 
Cracking the Code? Isn't that the same type of theory that got Irwin Schiff, Peter's dad, in jail for filing a $0.00 tax return?
 
so as long as I say it's my natural right, I'll cherry pick what laws apply to me.

You're voting for Ron Paul? Are you serious? Why? Why are you here? Ron Paul's campaign is one of revolution against the powers that be.

It doesn't make any sense for you to be here, onlyrp. It was meticulously explained to you. It is the argument of a simpleton to make this "I'll cherry pick the laws what laws apply to me." One has to hand it to you. You are shameless in subverting the information you have just been given.

So, let's try this:

According to onlyrp, we should obey every law without hesitation or reservation. If the United States Supreme Court says that you must turn in your weapons as they did in Great Britain, then you should comply. If the government forces you to accept Muslims into your home and accommodate them on private property, you should do so even though you listened to Sean Vanity and believe Muslims to be the devil incarnate.

You should never challenge unconstitutional laws. You should go along to get along. The only place you can protest is at the voting booth because America is a Democracy. In a Democracy, the majority rules and we get our rights via the government because God does not exist. Anyone that would dare challenge government / god is an enemy of the state and ought to be killed in the streets like you would do to a rabid dog... oh wait, can't shoot a dog, they have more rights than those conspiracy theorists.

Is there anything else I missed about your position, onlyrp?
 
so as long as I say it's my natural right, I'll cherry pick what laws apply to me.
you need to read judge Andrew Napolitanos new book "its dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" but esspecially need to read "the Law" by Frederick Bastiat here is the free version it is required reading for all liberty supporters http://mises.org/books/thelaw.pdf .

I would say its more like you are cherry picking what Natural rights the governemnt isnt allowed to infringe upon. i will pay for whatever servicies the government provides for me but i dont want to be bled of my income to pay for someone elses childs school or to pay to throw people in jail to keep them from doing drugs or to give random people across the country welfare. thats where the govt. infringes on my Natural rights and i make no exceptions for the government infringing on my natural rights.
 
relax, the guy is clearly new to the cause we dont want to push these types of people away we need to include then and REinform them. recomend some reading or videos to inform them we need to use the socratic method. if we cant speak to each other more respectfully and convince ron paul supporters that the more free we are the better and the more we fight oppressive govt either through votes or peaceful protest like this guy is using the easier it is to get our rights back, than we are going to be screwed when it comes to drawing in crowds of the unawakend people yet to discover the LIBERTY movement.
 
relax, the guy is clearly new to the cause we dont want to push these types of people away we need to include then and REinform them. recomend some reading or videos to inform them we need to use the socratic method. if we cant speak to each other more respectfully and convince ron paul supporters that the more free we are the better and the more we fight oppressive govt either through votes or peaceful protest like this guy is using the easier it is to get our rights back, than we are going to be screwed when it comes to drawing in crowds of the unawakend people yet to discover the LIBERTY movement.

*Ahem* Have you gone through this entire thread? onlyrp has been spoon-fed information that he obviously has not viewed or read. I have posted the Michael Badnarik Constitutional Classes, which is an 8 hour class discussing all the details of the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

People need to know their rights--it's clear onlyrp does not, nor does he care to know. He likes to spew "conspiracy theory" a lot, nevertheless. Unalienable rights is not a conspiracy theory, their is an active conspiracy to keep people from knowing their unalienable rights! Public schools deliberately do not teach this!! If more people really understood their rights, then most of the tyranny would not be allowed to move forward.

It's time for people to get educated! We are only free when we know and exercise our rights!! I am not a citizen of the Corporate United States, I am a sovereign individual of New Hampshire! That is what Live Free or Die is all about!!
 
Have you looked at the actual 22 categories of income that are taxable if you do not just send in a cheque or get refunded for previously confiscated funds owed by proxy or error? Most here don't owe a dime in income tax according to the IRS. There is a recent book called Cracking The Code that gives step by step walk through of the actual law on the IRS books and how to get refunded for what you have paid if you do not fall under the 22 categories. It works, BTW, as Ike Hall, the Georgia RP campaign head used this book to obtain full refunds for him and his wife for the previous three years and file 0.00USD for that year.

HTH
Rev9

You need to be very careful when you say things like this. The IRS sometimes lets people who sell books and tapes slide for a number of years before landing on them with both feet. And anyone who followed them gets swept up in the aftermath. It makes no difference whether they are technically correct about what the law says. You cannot stand up to a rigged court system and that's where you'll end up. You will be fighting the judge, a scared to death jury, the IRS agent, the prosecutor, and your own scared attorney. How do I know this? Because I used to know Irwin Schiff pretty well. And guess where he ended up? And it's likely until the day he dies. He was technically correct in just about everything he said. And people who took his advice ended up with a lot of pain and broken lives.

When the government has big guns and a cowed populace to bully, keep your head down unless you want it cut off. Do I sound like a chicken? Yeah, a live chicken. A lot of people I know are not alive or wish they weren't.
 
I've read through most of this thread and skimmed through some posts to see if anyone else picked up on this. The article OP posted is talking about someone not paying their real estate taxes. This is a city/state issue, NOT a Federal one. Ron Paul would side with this guy in that he is participating in civil disobedience, but he will have to deal with the consequences later. I have no comment when the article talks about illegal immigration, but this other "sovereign citizen" getting arrested for a DUI/DWI and driving a complete dumbass. I highly doubt that potentially doing harm to others an inalienable right.
 
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From the article:

“We have to be extremely careful on how we deal with these people. This should be treated like a terroristic threat,” Mason said.

I don't know about you but this is a very chilling and frightening statement.
 
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