Leaving the GOP is what the establishment WANTS you to do!

[amy31416]

Not making money, but yes power and influence is what we should all be striving for. If we don't have power, someone else will, and I can assure you those other people don't care about liberty.

heh that's really sad and lame.

All you want is money and power...but you're not worthy of it. And there's another lie--you did make money off the campaign.

It's not "sad and lame" to not want to contribute to an incompetent sociopath--that's quite reasonable. Step up your game.

 

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Putting sand into the Republican machine is so much fun why would anyone ever want to stop? The GOP has given no quarter and they will receive none! Let us continue to give the neocons fits as they lose the white house back to back to a known Marxist. If Republican voters want to defeat the liberal Democrats they must offer independent voters more than a liberal Republican. Eventually the GOP will be forced to improve their product if they want to win the presidency. Not being Obama is not good enough. Let us enjoy causing the neocons heartburn and disappointment as they fail to defeat an admitted socialist!

I love your post so much. Thank you. You've spoken for me.

To contribute:

Does anyone else here find it as ridiculous as I do that vast swathes of the population voted for Zero, with their rationale being boiled to, essentially, "He is the opposite of Bush," and now, vast swathes of the population representing the other side are are voting for Robamney, with their rationale being boiled down to, essentially, "He is the opposite of Obama!"

And neither group seems to be capable of recognizing that they've been herded like animals into the same behavior? For Pete's pickles, everyone - this was the DNC's strategy in '08, and it's now the RNC's strategy in '12...and heaven help you if you attempt to explain this to most Republicans.

Yet it is we who are the kooks. Limbaugh was calling us the morons today. Am I alone in recognizing this as true?

Screw the Republican party, now and forevermore. We can not and will not succeed in "changing the party from within," not ever. We can only defeat it by educating who we're able to educate over the course of many years. This, in my view, reflects the purpose of the RP movement going forward through the decades.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I love your post so much. Thank you. You've spoken for me.

To contribute:

Does anyone else here find it as ridiculous as I do that vast swathes of the population voted for Zero, with their rationale being boiled to, essentially, "He is the opposite of Bush," and now, vast swathes of the population representing the other side are are voting for Robamney, with their rationale being boiled down to, essentially, "He is the opposite of Obama!"

And neither group seems to be capable of recognizing that they've been herded like animals into the same behavior? For Pete's pickles, everyone - this was the DNC's strategy in '08, and it's now the RNC's strategy in '12...and heaven help you if you attempt to explain this to most Republicans.

Yet it is we who are the kooks. Limbaugh was calling us the morons today. Am I alone in recognizing this as true?

Screw the Republican party, now and forevermore. We can not and will not succeed in "changing the party from within," not ever. We can only defeat it by educating who we're able to educate over the course of many years. This, in my view, reflects the purpose of the RP movement going forward through the decades.

Those controlling the country applaud you. They wanted you to quit.

You were turning heads and changing the conversation and that was causing trouble for us. Yes, please go back to preaching to the choir, which others like you RP people have been doing for decades on end. That leaves us free to complete our goals, while you chatter on amongst yourselves.

Signed:
The establishment

 

[Bman]

Could you clarify WHICH 2%? lol

+rep

 

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul did more educating in his last two runs for President than almost anything anyone has done in this country for a very, very long time. He also ran for President as a Libertarian, but as far as educating a bunch of people, no, there wasn't much. Why? Because very few pay any attention at all to what the Libertarian Party does.

If you do not have a podium that people pay attention to, then they will not hear what you have to say.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Ron Paul did more educating in his last two runs for President than almost anything anyone has done in this country for a very, very long time. He also ran for President as a Libertarian, but as far as educating a bunch of people, no, there wasn't much. Why? Because very few pay any attention at all to what the Libertarian Party does.

If you do not have a podium that people pay attention to, then they will not hear what you have to say.

The people running and getting money from the liberty movement aren't running as Ron Paul Republicans. It's increasingly shifting to Rand Paul Republicans, and those goalposts are significantly narrower than Ron's.

The podium may be important, but more important is the message. You can have the largest podium in the world, but if the message isn't there, what good is it? Perfect example, which speech would wake more people up, Ron's Rally speech or Rand's RNC speech?

 

[LibertyEagle]

The people running and getting money from the liberty movement aren't running as Ron Paul Republicans. It's increasingly shifting to Rand Paul Republicans, and those goalposts are significantly narrower than Ron's.

Who?

The podium may be important, but more important is the message. You can have the largest podium in the world, but if the message isn't there, what good is it?

I agree the message is the most important thing, but I also realize that some will choose the topics to lead with. We, on this forum, tend to like the scorched earth approach. While it may work with us, it doesn't with the majority of others.

I do agree that we should choose our candidates wisely. Perhaps that means that someone like you should run.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

What did Collins get banned for? Or is he just doing what he did with his Zanzibar puppet account?

 

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Those controlling the country applaud you. They wanted you to quit.

You were turning heads and changing the conversation and that was causing trouble for us. Yes, please go back to preaching to the choir, which others like you RP people have been doing for decades on end. That leaves us free to complete our goals, while you chatter on amongst yourselves.

Signed:
The establishment

LibertyEagle, history is a story of fallen kings, dynasties, and empires. This logic also applies to political parties and schools of thought. I'm convinced that what we are seeing is the very early stages of the beginning of the end of the dominance of a two-party paradigm in the United States; granted, this process is in its infancy. I believe this sentiment is shared by many on these very forums.

Is it your position that that should be aborted?

Attempting to co-opt and consume the GOP from within is a strategy more akin to joining any gang of outlaws of old west fame with the intention of exerting a benevolent influence, with the express purpose of getting them to change their ways. It will always be the good-intentioned interloper conforming to the will of the outlaws - the opposite has never, and will never, be true.

Did you ever wonder why Rand endorsed Robamney? He believes that he can be the exception to this time-tested adage. He's wrong. In time, he will be covered from head to toe in the same shit Zero and Robamney are covered in.

This is why our Moms and Dads always taught us not to run with the "bad" kids. We needed strength of character as children, and we need strength of character as adults. How many Evangelical Christian kids are in MS-13?

Fuck both the Republican and Democratic parties with equal vigor and duration. It's time to focus on the future, and as the future of Liberty in America is clearly not going to be found in the GOP, it's time to cut ties.

L-I-B-E-R-T-Y is what this is all about, LibertyEagle. You've been involved with these forums longer than I; cripes, you even have it in your username. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

 

[Suzu]

They pretty much said this to the new precinct delegates at my last county convention.

It's very true in my experience too. But not all of them, just the idiot faction want us to go.

I lost my precinct committee election by a much narrower margin than in '08. The lady who won is one of the few remaining die-hard idiots on the county committee, which we have pretty much taken over. Even though I lost, I've been attending meetings, and seeing the progress we're making.

At the first meeting, one of the agenda items was to fill any precinct vacancies. After electing liberty-lovers as chairman, vice chairman, secretary and treasurer, four more vacant seats were filled with our people. There are still a few precincts without representation, and we're looking for the right folks for those so they can be elected at the next meeting.

The evening was not without turmoil. Most of the ill will arose from my opponent. Everything the new liberty-loving majority wanted, she argued against, just to be contrary and a pain. She and her friends know they are outnumbered and outdated and unwanted. At one point she said something to the effect of "Why don't all you people just leave the GOP so we can do what the RNC wants us to do." Even her friends looked askance at her for saying that. We are hoping she will get mad enough to resign. It seems likely she will do that, eventually, because she got so upset that she literally turned green and almost exploded.

I also attended legislative, senatorial and congressional district meetings, where our people won most of the officer elections - much to the dismay of the old guard.

I hope y'all are doing similar things across the country.

 

[Suzu]

No, you are wrong. Its true, They don't want us to speak or have any opinions, but they do want us. They want us to shut up and vote for their pick.

You left a letter (r) out of the last word in your post.

 

[LibertyEagle]

LibertyEagle, history is a story of fallen kings, dynasties, and empires. This logic also applies to political parties and schools of thought. I'm convinced that what we are seeing is the very early stages of the beginning of the end of the dominance of a two-party paradigm in the United States; granted, this process is in its infancy.

That is what some people thought 40 years ago when they formed the Libertarian Party and others thought 20 years ago when the TaxPayer Party/Constitution Party was formed. Neither of these have really had any impact at all. So, all those, mostly Republicans, who left and formed those parties may have felt more pure, but they effectively neutralized themselves and their voices.

Surely, there will be a time for a 3rd party, but it is not yet. Do you believe we have the time to all but neutralize our voices for the next 10, 20 or more years? I don't.

I believe this sentiment is shared by many on these very forums.

Yes, and the vast majority of the neocons believe that we should police the world. It doesn't make them right.

Is it your position that that should be aborted?

The only thing that I see some trying to abort is what Dr. Paul started and some very hardworking patriots implemented in a variety of states around the country. We now own the GOP political apparatus in Iowa, Minnesota and soon, Maine. Imagine if we owned over 1/2 of them. No longer would there be the level of cheating that we saw this go around and we would have a vehicle that we could use even more successfully than we are now, to get more liberty candidates elected.

But, it will take dedication and hard work to do it.

Did you see when Marianne Stebbins (one of us) was at the RNC announcing the delegates for her state, Minnesota? She prefaced it by saying Minnesota, where we hold fair and honest elections with integrity? I am paraphrasing here, but that is close. All but one of the delegates went to Ron Paul. The one that we didn't have was a gift to Michele Bachmann. There is a video of her talking about how they both now own the leadership positions in the GOP AND changed hearts and minds. They spent the last 4 years working hard, meeting other people in that party in their local communities and getting to know them. So, it took more than just showing up to vote, or attending a rally.

Attempting to co-opt and consume the GOP from within is a strategy more akin to joining any gang of outlaws of old west fame with the intention of exerting a benevolent influence, with the express purpose of getting them to change their ways. It will always be the good-intentioned interloper conforming to the will of the outlaws - the opposite has never, and will never, be true.

No, actually, the Republican Party is whomever is in it. If we are the prevailing voice, it will be ours. There used to be many like us, you know. They were called Goldwater-conservatives. Why do you think Dr. Paul invites Barry Goldwater, Jr. to speak at so many of his big events?

Did you ever wonder why Rand endorsed Robamney? He believes that he can be the exception to this time-tested adage. He's wrong. In time, he will be covered from head to toe in the same shit Zero and Robamney are covered in.

I know why he endorsed him and that has been covered ad nauseum.

This is why our Moms and Dads always taught us not to run with the "bad" kids. We needed strength of character as children, and we need strength of character as adults. How many Evangelical Christian kids are in MS-13?

Life isn't like that. You can go to where the battle is being waged or sit in the corner congratulating each other about how pure you are. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, for those who are interested in getting liberty candidates elected, there are only two choices to do it and those are one of the major parties. Like it or not. That is the fact.

Fuck both the Republican and Democratic parties with equal vigor and duration. It's time to focus on the future, and as the future of Liberty in America is clearly not going to be found in the GOP, it's time to cut ties.

If you are looking for liberty in a political party, you will never find it. Liberty must be in your heart. Political parties are solely for getting the candidates who share your views elected.

No one is suggesting that you become a corrupted piece of trash, like the establishment currently running the GOP. As we become the GOP and take over the leadership positions, in our quest to have an expedient vehicle to get our candidates elected, they will be kicked to the curb, anyway.

L-I-B-E-R-T-Y is what this is all about, LibertyEagle. You've been involved with these forums longer than I; cripes, you even have it in your username. I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

If you want liberty, it's going to take a lot of hard work. Do you want it?

 

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

So many good and thought provoking points, LE. Will re-read in the morning, and think on your words tonight. Thanks for your response.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

That is what some people thought 40 years ago when they formed the Libertarian Party and others thought 20 years ago when the TaxPayer Party/Constitution Party was formed. Neither of these have really had any impact at all. So, all those, mostly Republicans, who left and formed those parties may have felt more pure, but they effectively neutralized themselves and their voices.

Surely, there will be a time for a 3rd party, but it is not yet. Do you believe we have the time to all but neutralize our voices for the next 10, 20 or more years? I don't.



Yes, and the vast majority of the neocons believe that we should police the world. It doesn't make them right.



The only thing that I see some trying to abort is what Dr. Paul started and some very hardworking patriots implemented in a variety of states around the country. We now own the GOP political apparatus in Iowa, Minnesota and soon, Maine. Imagine if we owned over 1/2 of them. No longer would there be the level of cheating that we saw this go around and we would have a vehicle that we could use even more successfully than we are now, to get more liberty candidates elected.

But, it will take dedication and hard work to do it.

Did you see when Marianne Stebbins (one of us) was at the RNC announcing the delegates for her state, Minnesota? She prefaced it by saying Minnesota, where we hold fair and honest elections with integrity? I am paraphrasing here, but that is close. All but one of the delegates went to Ron Paul. The one that we didn't have was a gift to Michele Bachmann. There is a video of her talking about how they both now own the leadership positions in the GOP AND changed hearts and minds. They spent the last 4 years working hard, meeting other people in that party in their local communities and getting to know them. So, it took more than just showing up to vote, or attending a rally.



No, actually, the Republican Party is whomever is in it. If we are the prevailing voice, it will be ours. There used to be many like us, you know. They were called Goldwater-conservatives. Why do you think Dr. Paul invites Barry Goldwater, Jr. to speak at so many of his big events?


I know why he endorsed him and that has been covered ad nauseum.



Life isn't like that. You can go to where the battle is being waged or sit in the corner congratulating each other about how pure you are. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, for those who are interested in getting liberty candidates elected, there are only two choices to do it and those are one of the major parties. Like it or not. That is the fact.



If you are looking for liberty in a political party, you will never find it. Liberty must be in your heart. Political parties are solely for getting the candidates who share your views elected.

No one is suggesting that you become a corrupted piece of trash, like the establishment currently running the GOP. As we become the GOP and take over the leadership positions, in our quest to have an expedient vehicle to get our candidates elected, they will be kicked to the curb, anyway.



If you want liberty, it's going to take a lot of hard work. Do you want it?

Absolutely brilliant post!

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Those controlling the country applaud you. They wanted you to quit.

You were turning heads and changing the conversation and that was causing trouble for us. Yes, please go back to preaching to the choir, which others like you RP people have been doing for decades on end. That leaves us free to complete our goals, while you chatter on amongst yourselves.

Signed:
The establishment

Here, frickin here!!

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

It's very true in my experience too. But not all of them, just the idiot faction want us to go.

I lost my precinct committee election by a much narrower margin than in '08. The lady who won is one of the few remaining die-hard idiots on the county committee, which we have pretty much taken over. Even though I lost, I've been attending meetings, and seeing the progress we're making.

At the first meeting, one of the agenda items was to fill any precinct vacancies. After electing liberty-lovers as chairman, vice chairman, secretary and treasurer, four more vacant seats were filled with our people. There are still a few precincts without representation, and we're looking for the right folks for those so they can be elected at the next meeting.

The evening was not without turmoil. Most of the ill will arose from my opponent. Everything the new liberty-loving majority wanted, she argued against, just to be contrary and a pain. She and her friends know they are outnumbered and outdated and unwanted. At one point she said something to the effect of "Why don't all you people just leave the GOP so we can do what the RNC wants us to do." Even her friends looked askance at her for saying that. We are hoping she will get mad enough to resign. It seems likely she will do that, eventually, because she got so upset that she literally turned green and almost exploded.

I also attended legislative, senatorial and congressional district meetings, where our people won most of the officer elections - much to the dismay of the old guard.

I hope y'all are doing similar things across the country.

If you're not doing things similar to this in your local area, take a good look in the mirror because you're part of the problem.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Who?


I agree the message is the most important thing, but I also realize that some will choose the topics to lead with. We, on this forum, tend to like the scorched earth approach. While it may work with us, it doesn't with the majority of others.

I do agree that we should choose our candidates wisely. Perhaps that means that someone like you should run.

I'd be up against Darrell Issa and his $200 million. If I could scrap together 10k (I think it's 10k to register, at least) I'd run a rabblerousing campaign as a primary challenger, perhaps. Since the democrats frequently don't run anyone against him in general elections, I'd honestly have a chance to make more of an impact as a democrat.

 

[Romer]

Now, after they changed party rules, they don't give a f... you stay or leave the party.

 

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

I really kicked over a hornet's nest last night in this thread, and I'm glad I did, precisely because folks like LibertyEagle constantly force me to challenge my own ideas. I love this place! While I remain in respectful disagreement - I believe the time has come for the GOP to become marginalized, and for the liberty movement to abandon it - I do recognize that LE's response to my above post illustrates the best way through the next few election cycles. To remain viable, our movement may well find its best chance of success within the GOP apparatus.

At the same time, it remains the more likely outcome that it is we ourselves, the liberty movement proper, that will change, rather than be the initiator of change within the GOP. They have proven time and time again that we are not wanted in that group, and we should only accept a handful of kicks in the teeth, rather than the several, before this point sinks into our heads. It is we who will be corrupted, not they who will be made to come around to our way of thinking.

If we can flood the ranks, as I take your meaning to be, my point is moot. And that's a noble goal that I, and anyone here, can support.

 

[hrdman2luv]