Leaving the GOP is what the establishment WANTS you to do!

[Maltheus]

Now, after they changed party rules, they don't give a f... you stay or leave the party.

Yep. And also, why should we care what they want? The GOP is a dying party, Let them die. How are we supposed to draw more people into the movement, without an inspiration figure like Ron Paul? He was the only reason most of us got in, in the first place. But we don't have the numbers at the peak of his involvement, and the neo and social-cons, outnumber us 6-1.

The day we "take over" the GOP is the day that 3rd parties become viable in this country. They'll reform, under something new. We'll have wasted all of our political energy on resuscitating a corpse, tainting our name in the process. The best we can do, at this point, are ballot initiatives and education.

 

[aclove]

I have long believed that our goal should be to either take over the GOP or provoke it into destroying itself. There can be no other option. We do not have the numbers yet to destroy it by leaving, and as such, that simply leaves it to the Straussians, who use it for destructive ends.

If we stay involved, we either take over, one state at a time, or we provoke the bad guys into de-legitimizing themselves and losing enough support that the party is no longer dangerous. It may very well come to that, and we may very well have seen the first steps in that direction at the RNC last week. But there still aren't enough people aware enough to realize how far the RNC powerbrokers are willing to go to maintain control. To get to that point, we have to keep fighting them, either defeating them through superior numbers, or forcing them to use tactics so dirty and obvious that people abandon them in droves.

 

[Tod]

see sig below.

 

[TrishW]

Why can't we have it all? Why not vote for liberty and get into politics promoting liberty... wherever and whenever you can. We need the world to change, and waiting on it, isn't going to get anything done. I say.. Find a way in, infect all of government with the liberty bug.

 

[fr33]

Everyone should read these:
http://www.texasgopvote.com/knowled...can-primary-if-you-are-going-kill-king-004561

http://www.conservative-usa.com/2012/08/31/if-you-are-going-to-kill-the-king/

Opinions from some of the opposition...

 

[DeMintConservative]

Everyone should read these:
http://www.texasgopvote.com/knowled...can-primary-if-you-are-going-kill-king-004561

http://www.conservative-usa.com/2012/08/31/if-you-are-going-to-kill-the-king/

Opinions from some of the opposition...

Several months ago, as the Ron Paul campaign’s strategy to win the Republican nomination by stacking the various state delegations with their own supporters began to roll out, I made the observation in a post that I believed this strategy to be an unwise idea. As I said at the time: it would not work, was doomed to failure and would invite blow-back from the GOP which would only serve to isolate what I considered then (and still consider) to be an important, vital and desirable faction of the party.

No organization, be it a political party, a social club or a public corporation, would tolerate a move by a minority to subvert the will of the majority. The annals of corporate lore are filled with attempts by minority shareholders to remove boards of directors and replace them with members more to their liking. Such efforts generally end in failure and the result is often a minority with even less influence than before.

Yeps, I wrote the same thing here.

What people need to do is to make up their mind about working within a major party. And then stay with it. You can't be part of a party in one day, then have fantasies about destroying the same party the other day because you're unhappy with the outcome of a primary then still expect to be taken seriously the next day.

Many here have a fundamental inability to understand what politics is about. If you keep treating the rest of the GOP as enemies, the rest of the GOP will eventually reciprocate.

Politics is about persuasion, not "conquering" and the war related metaphors that fancy so many here. The first truth of political action: if people think you don’t like them, nothing else matters. They won’t vote for you — even if that means voting for someone with whom they disagree even more.

 

[TrishW]

DeMintConservative... So your suggestion is we fake it? We pretend that we support all the things we do not? We pretend as though we support all the candidates we do not? In order to achieve the goal you set out for us, isn't that exactly what we would have to do? Aren't there enough fake people in politics already?

 

[DeMintConservative]

DeMintConservative... So your suggestion is we fake it? We pretend that we support all the things we do not? We pretend as though we support all the candidate we do not? In order to achieve the goal you set out for us, isn't that exactly what we would have to do?

Why do you need to pretend anything? I'm not following.

If you hate the GOP as so many here - who would want to "destroy it" and who prefer to vote for Obama, etc -, if you can't see politics as the art of possible (and often a very painful one), then simply stay out of it. Why would any mentally sane person belong to a party they hate? Nobody is forced to be in one of the major political parties; I reckon it's a very taxing activity.

What I'm saying is very simple: politics is not about antagonizing people. If you want to "change the GOP" and "conquer the GOP" you'll never do that by treating 90% of the GOP as enemies. This seems awfully simple to understand to me.

 

[Pawn3d]

We're taking over and getting our own people elected. Why would we leave?

 

[TrishW]

Why do you need to pretend anything? I'm not following.

If you hate the GOP as so many here - who would want to "destroy it" and who prefer to vote for Obama, etc -, if you can't see politics as the art of possible (and often a very painful one), then simply stay out of it. Why would any mentally sane person belong to a party they hate? Nobody is forced to be in one of the major political parties; I reckon it's a very taxing activity.

What I'm saying is very simple: politics is not about antagonizing people. If you want to "change the GOP" and "conquer the GOP" you'll never do that by treating 90% of the GOP as enemies. This seems awfully simple to understand to me.

Do you think that Ron Paul likes the goals and current stand of the Republican Party? Do you think that Ron Paul played along? I would rather see thousands, and thousands, of "Ron Pauls" within the Republican Party... than our people giving up their principles to get along.

So if I am crazy, I have some pretty good company.

BTW.. I do not hate, I disagree. Hate is a very strong word.

 

[FSP-Rebel]

What I'm saying is very simple: politics is not about antagonizing people. If you want to "change the GOP" and "conquer the GOP" you'll never do that by treating 90% of the GOP as enemies. This seems awfully simple to understand to me.

Pretty much agree. We need to coalition build whenever possible and that means constantly discussing the issues which Paul folk are supposed to be good at. Plus, issues are what most grassroots activists of all stripes are interested in and if we can show commonality across many fronts, people are more likely to "like" you and stand beside you when votes are taken at county and state conventions. Same works for when trying to educate voters and/or get them to vote for the people you're advocating.

 

[DeMintConservative]

Exactly. Stressing commonality is very important.

Ron Paul's ceiling was always limited because he was obsessed with focusing on the things separating him from the rest of the GOP while rarely stressing the areas of agreement.

Rand Paul is doing the exact opposite and that's why he can become a credible national candidate.

 

[Todd]

We now own the GOP political apparatus in Iowa, Minnesota and soon, Maine. Imagine if we owned over 1/2 of them

Yep. Imagining it is becoming much easier.

 

[BringBackLiberty]

Stay in the GOP. Keep supporting the Liberty movement. Don't vote for Mitt Romney (I feel it would be a step backwards, however that's just my opinion). That makes the most sense to me. Leaving the GOP or expressing contempt toward the party in general would eat away at the progress we've made. Just keep taking over little by little and use the recent events as fuel to keep on going.

 

[July]

Exactly. Stressing commonality is very important.

Ron Paul's ceiling was always limited because he was obsessed with focusing on the things separating him from the rest of the GOP while rarely stressing the areas of agreement.

Rand Paul is doing the exact opposite and that's why he can become a credible national candidate.

Well, even Ron Paul, in areas where he could not find agreement, still reached back to find past Republican examples of those who did share his views, when he could. So I would say not even Ron Paul himself has taken such an extreme antagonistic stance. He told the ugly truth and did not waver from unpopular views...and Rand certianly has a lighter touch...but even still, Ron didn't talk about "destroying" the party either...but rather bringing it back to earlier values, restoring it, etc. So a hateful or vindictive tone is not really Ron's style either. The media made it appear that way, often, because he was frequently put on the defensive in debates, with only a very small amount of time to explain himself, and a lot of nasty articles have been written in the press. But when you listen to a full length speech, you can see that he is not really that angry or unforgiving.

At any rate, I think that some people are maybe confusing their hatred of the establishment with average rank and file republicans. I don't think all republicans deserve the blame for the actions of what is really a very small minority of corrupt individuals, who happen to be in control. Those same people will simply remain in control, unopposed, if we can't learn to build peaceful coalitions on issues we can agree on.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Exactly. Stressing commonality is very important.

I agree that it is most effective to lead with what you have in common, yes.

Ron Paul's ceiling was always limited because he was obsessed with focusing on the things separating him from the rest of the GOP while rarely stressing the areas of agreement.

I hope you are not implying that those principles that all real conservatives used to believe, be somehow buried and never mentioned. Because that will not be happening, nor should it.

You talk about the GOP like it is some kind of singular-mind monolith and it NEVER has been. There were big government Rockefeller-Republicans, who had much more in common with their leftist brethren, than the Goldwater-conservatives who also existed in the Republican Party. When the Trotskyites entered the Republican Party under the name of neoconservatives, during Reagan's run, the Rockefeller-Republicans had some new big government buddies; although they differed on a few issues. The Goldwater-conservatives were overrun by a bunch of big government Republicans from 2 camps who, after Reagan, ALL called themselves conservatives. Eventually, the "neo" was dropped and the takeover of the conservative movement as it existed, was complete.

Some of the Goldwater-conservatives left the Republican Party in disgust, others were propagandized by the likes of FOX news and some just wondered what the hell had happened.

Ron Paul DID wake up some of those real conservatives. It had been so long since they had heard anyone talk like that. I had friends who told me, wow, I remember that. Still others could not hear him and that is my hope for Rand; that he will be able to break through the wall in their minds that years of propaganda has built.

So yes, I believe in persuasion, as you suggest. Because it is usually the most effective way of winning people over. But, I also am not so naive to believe that we will win everyone over, because some have never believed in limited government and individual liberty. The good thing is, we don't need to win everyone over.

Rand Paul is doing the exact opposite and that's why he can become a credible national candidate.

Rand is leading with the issues that most Republicans like for a reason. It brings down walls in peoples' minds. But, while he is doing that, he is also slowly chinking away at the sacred cows that the neoconservatives built and will continue to do so until they no longer exist.

But, I have this to say about your use of the word, "credible". While Ron Paul will likely never become President, his two runs opened the eyes of so very many and it is those people and the remnant that Dr. Paul talked of so often, who have scared the ever-lovin' beejeezus out of the establishment insiders who are taking our country down. So, say what you will about Ron Paul, but we wouldn't be here talking today, if he had not done what he did.

 

[Ender]

I agree that it is most effective to lead with what you have in common, yes.



I hope you are not implying that those principles that all real conservatives used to believe, be somehow buried and never mentioned. Because that will not be happening, nor should it.

You talk about the GOP like it is some kind of singular-mind monolith and it NEVER has been. There were big government Rockefeller-Republicans, who had much more in common with their leftist brethren, than the Goldwater-conservatives who also existed in the Republican Party. When the Trotskyites entered the Republican Party under the name of neoconservatives, during Reagan's run, the Rockefeller-Republicans had some new big government buddies; although they differed on a few issues. The Goldwater-conservatives were overrun by a bunch of big government Republicans from 2 camps who, after Reagan, ALL called themselves conservatives. Eventually, the "neo" was dropped and the takeover of the conservative movement as it existed, was complete.

Some of the Goldwater-conservatives left the Republican Party in disgust, others were propagandized by the likes of FOX news and some just wondered what the hell had happened.

Ron Paul DID wake up some of those real conservatives. It had been so long since they had heard anyone talk like that. I had friends who told me, wow, I remember that. Still others could not hear him and that is my hope for Rand; that he will be able to break through the wall in their minds that years of propaganda has built.

So yes, I believe in persuasion, as you suggest. Because it is usually the most effective way of winning people over. But, I also am not so naive to believe that we will win everyone over, because some have never believed in limited government and individual liberty. The good thing is, we don't need to win everyone over.


Rand is leading with the issues that most Republicans like for a reason. It brings down walls in peoples' minds. But, while he is doing that, he is also slowly chinking away at the sacred cows that the neoconservatives built and will continue to do so until they no longer exist.

But, I have this to say about your use of the word, "credible". While Ron Paul will likely never become President, his two runs opened the eyes of so very many and it is those people and the remnant that Dr. Paul talked of so often, who have scared the ever-lovin' beejeezus out of the establishment insiders who are taking our country down. So, say what you will about Ron Paul, but we wouldn't be here talking today, if he had not done what he did.

+1000!

 

[NorfolkPCSolutions]

Everyone should read these:
http://www.texasgopvote.com/knowled...can-primary-if-you-are-going-kill-king-004561

http://www.conservative-usa.com/2012/08/31/if-you-are-going-to-kill-the-king/

Opinions from some of the opposition...

After having read the information in these links, I'm more convinced that abandoning the GOP is the right way forward. They are concerned only with power, the proliferation of power, and the use of power in American politics. It's liberty that we're concerned with.

I'd say we are diametrically opposed at this point, we and the GOP. I think we should be proud of that.

 

[LibertyEagle]

As I wrote that, I am even more convinced that we need to find a way to get a friendly TV network. Surely, there is some way to get Peter Thiel, Jim Rogers, or someone with deep pockets to start such a network.

 

[twomp]

Many here have a fundamental inability to understand what politics is about. If you keep treating the rest of the GOP as enemies, the rest of the GOP will eventually reciprocate.

Say what you want but your party is dying. In the coming years, more people will register independent, team red and team blue will slowly lose people. The only difference is there are young people in team blue. The GOP is filled with old people hanging on to their pictures of Regan and dreaming of the glory days. The majority of young Republicans are supporters of Dr. Ron Paul. Go back and look through the primary elections as proof of this.

YOU NEED US MORE THAN WE NEED YOU! The Establishment may have control now but we don't need to play nice. It is YOU GUYS and your group of Grand Old Corrupt Politicians that needs to be nice to us. I will enjoy watching your party slowly die off.