Leaving the GOP is what the establishment WANTS you to do!

[Matt Collins]

I was never in the Republican Party. If a good liberty candidate comes along, I don't care which party they are in, I will back them.

If they don't have any internal support within the GOP, then they won't have a chance in hell of winning. We MUST have good liberty people in positions of power within the GOP if our liberty candidates are going to have a chance to win.

 

[Carlybee]

Good thing Ron Paul didn't take that attitude.

That's very short sighted. The GOP controls a good portion of the government. If we are to try and gain the power needed to reshape our government, then the Republican Party is the most viable vehicle in front of us at this time.

Supporting candidates is great and is needed, but these candidates must have at minimium a non-hostile infastructure within which to work. If we don't have liberty people inside the Republican Party, then the life of these liberty candidates will be short lived.

Sorry but trying to lay a guilt trip is lame. If nothing ever changes...nothing ever changes...and every single voice of liberty was effectively squashed by the GOP when they decided they will do anything they want to do at anytime to anyone and the media and the judicial system turns a blind eye. The GOP are a bunch of warmongering empire builders controlled by the MIC. For all of the good Ron Paul did, they couldn't even give him a lousy speaking slot at their convention...so unfortunately other than his audit the fed bill and a few others he was still cut off at the knees in the end. If y'all want to schmooze with those kinds of people go for it...I find it intellectually dishonest. We don't know what RP would do if he had it to do over.

 

[wgadget]

STAYING in the GOP is what Matt Collins WANTS us to do...WHY?

 

[Matt Collins]

Sorry but trying to lay a guilt trip is lame.

I'm not laying a guilt trip. But the facts are the facts. If liberty people do not get involved and stay involved, then the authortarians win. It's really just that simple.

If nothing ever changes...nothing ever changes...and every single voice of liberty was effectively squashed by the GOP when they decided they will do anything they want to do at anytime to anyone and the media and the judicial system turns a blind eye. The GOP are a bunch of warmongering empire builders controlled by the MIC. For all of the good Ron Paul did, they couldn't even give him a lousy speaking slot at their convention...so unfortunately other than his audit the fed bill and a few others he was still cut off at the knees in the end. If y'all want to schmooze with those kinds of people go for it...I find it intellectually dishonest. We don't know what RP would do if he had it to do over.

We simply didn't have the numbers this time. But if we work harder, we WILL have the numbers next time. Iowa, Minnesota, and a few other state parties are proof of this.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Sorry but trying to lay a guilt trip is lame. If nothing ever changes...nothing ever changes...and every single voice of liberty was effectively squashed by the GOP when they decided they will do anything they want to do at anytime to anyone and the media and the judicial system turns a blind eye. The GOP are a bunch of warmongering empire builders controlled by the MIC. For all of the good Ron Paul did, they couldn't even give him a lousy speaking slot at their convention...so unfortunately other than his audit the fed bill and a few others he was still cut off at the knees in the end. If y'all want to schmooze with those kinds of people go for it...I find it intellectually dishonest. We don't know what RP would do if he had it to do over.

But, he cannot do it over. None of us can. We are where we are. We have had success in using the Republican Party to get liberty candidates elected and many have made tremendous inroads in owning the leadership slots in their states. If one of our goals is to get our candidates elected, it seems to lack common sense to toss away something that is working. I suppose it does though, if your goal is something else entirely.

 

[kathy88]

I'm getting more and more pissed by the day. I live in Ohio. The Republican Party is super thick with good old boys in this state. There is no taking it over. Family legacies carry on the party. To even try to infiltrate it is near impossible. Write-in votes aren't counted here unless the person has registered to be one. Now, Romney is trying to get Johnson off the ticket. Where does this leave me??? Come November, could I really not have anyone to vote for? I'm really at a loss about what to do...
Right now, the Republicans can kiss my ass. They're trying to create a situation where for the first time in 5 presidential elections I can't vote for anyone I want to! URGH!

I've seen that mentioned, about Rmney trying to get Johnson out. Why? Signatures?

 

[wgadget]

I've seen that mentioned, about Rmney trying to get Johnson out. Why? Signatures?

Why? So that he can force people to vote for him instead of the Libertarian candidate. Romney is such a damn cheater.

 

[Eire4RonPaul]

Who's talking about leaving the GOP? You can still be a member of the Republican Party and vote Libertarian in November. Hell, you can even be a member of the GOP and Libertarian Party simultaneously - the same as Ron Paul.

 

[TheTexan]

But, he cannot do it over. None of us can. We are where we are. We have had success in using the Republican Party to get liberty candidates elected and many have made tremendous inroads in owning the leadership slots in their states. If one of our goals is to get our candidates elected, it seems to lack common sense to toss away something that is working. I suppose it does though, if your goal is something else entirely.

We aren't a slave to the GOP. If you keep the mindset that we must stay in the GOP at all costs because it is the only way, then we will get nowhere.

I'm not saying we shouldn't stay in the GOP. But we have to keep our options open. Otherwise, what's the point? They'll just keep ignoring us because as long as we're in their party, we're not a threat to them, at all.

But 3rd party... and the ability to play spoiler in every election from this point forward, that's called leverage, and we would be a fool not to use it.

 

[Eire4RonPaul]

We aren't a slave to the GOP. If you keep the mindset that we must stay in the GOP at all costs because it is the only way, then we will get nowhere.

I'm not saying we shouldn't stay in the GOP. But we have to keep our options open. Otherwise, what's the point? They'll just keep ignoring us because as long as we're in their party, we're not a threat to them, at all.

But 3rd party... and the ability to play spoiler in every election from this point forward, that's called leverage, and we would be a fool not to use it.

LibertyEagle is a GOP religiously motivated hack - yeah....one of those.

He/She has demonstrated that he/she is not interested in libertarianism or a free society - only old fashioned in-bred, brain-dead "America, f*ck yeah!" and "f*ck them foreigners" conservatism of the GOP.

 

[LibertyRevolution]

One of these days someone will hopefully explain what one of those above "average" Americans are. I always thought Americans were Americans. Whoda thunkit...

Gosh, I really hate that language.

I'll give you hint. Average Americans reelected George Bush. Average Americans fell for "hope" and "change". Average Americans flock to Sarah Palin book signings. Average Americans aren't very bright.

The way I look at it, less than 20% of the population's brains can even meaningfully process the info we are trying to give them. :/

I am part of the 2% and I find dealing with most people very frustrating...

 

[amy31416]

STAYING in the GOP is what Matt Collins WANTS us to do...WHY?

Because he thinks he stands to make money and potentially have power/influence.

Staying with the GOP may be the best course of action for the time being, but the more Collins yaps, the less I want to be part of it. When someone with his sociopathic/narcissistic tendencies starts telling other people what to do, especially given his superficial knowledge on this subject--I certainly don't want to participate. And there's no way in hell that I'll ever donate to any organization that gives him a cent.

 

[libertygrl]

Why are people getting so hung up over this and fighting amongst each other?? Let's be careful here. I don't want any of us to fall prey to possible outsiders coming in here trying to divide us while we are still emotionally vulnerable over what happened.

If we can be BOTH (L&R) like Ron Paul why not? After the stunts the GOP establishment pulled at the RNC, more people who were sitting on the fence, now see that us Paulbots weren't a bunch of whiners afterall. They see that these new rules directly affect them as well, and that we were telling the truth about the fraud and corruption on the state level all along.

We have been waiting for some sort of big PR moment that would propel our movement to reach even more people with the truth and now we have it. As disgusting and dispicable as the RNC has behaved, their arrogance has exposed them for what they truly are. They really screwed up big time. We will now have more people on our side. Their actions were the spark that will begin the cracks in the foundation of the party. It will be destroyed from within and that's when we should be in position to take over.

The many grassroots groups will never tolerate this power grab. Let's all just have an open mind here. Get involved at the state level until - as Ron Paul said, WE BECOME THE TENT. That means getting elected to local and state committees, adopting resolutions, buttonholding RNC members, etc. If all else fails THEN we will abandon the party and take the majority of the conservative grassroots with us. I think at this moment we are still too emotionally wrapped up about what happened and need to chill out and see what transpires from here.

As for now, I think we should gather up as many videos and articles about what happened at the RNC and make them go viral. THIS SHOULD BE A PRIORITY. I have been getting positive feedback from the Tea Party forums I have placed them in. There were some who actually said they are sick of the party and won't be voting for Romney. We should be doing this right now while the iron is still hot. The media certainly won't do it for us.

I personally think we could learn alot by borrowing some stratagies from the establishment's own playbook. We should ask ourselves, what would they do if our roles were reversed and we were caught in such lies and deceptions? I believe they would take advantage that our weakness was exposed to the public. They would make sure this information was constantly played out for more people to see. I also believe, they would try to divide us and make us turn on each other. Something to think about....

 

[kathy88]

Why? So that he can force people to vote for him instead of the Libertarian candidate. Romney is such a damn cheater.

hahah I know WHY, I meant what is the excuse?

 

[kathy88]

The way I look at it, less than 20% of the population's brains can even meaningfully process the info we are trying to give them. :/

I am part of the 2% and I find dealing with most people very frustrating...

Could you clarify WHICH 2%? lol

 

[cajuncocoa]

The obvious counterpoint to hazek's argument is that by leaving the GOP to go 3rd party sends us into irrelevance.... but if we're as strong as we think we are, by doing that we can make sure the GOP never wins a presidential election, ever again.

We may never win an election going 3rd party... but if we can make the GOP lose, time and time again, we definitely wouldn't be irrelevant

You need to stop making so much sense around here!

 

[Maltheus]

Being a Republican puts up a wall between us and those on the left, who would otherwise be open to parts of our message. Right now, people are too entrenched in partisan games for us to make any headway (not to mention the rules being rigged). The dollar will have to crash before most ever face reality. There's not point in trying to take over the Titantic. Our time is better spent teaching people how to use the lifeboats.

 

[truthspeaker]

Sorry I just don't agree. I don't really want to debate it because I've read all the reasons for and against a thousand times probably.

I just don't think you will accomplish enough in taking it over. The math is against you. Mainstream republicans have the overwhelming numbers that they can show up for decades ousting you if they wake up to it.

In my opinion, you can keep trying this and in 5-10 years you might get some lukewarm politician that talks libertarian but does not practice it in reality. Something like the Reagan revolution.

They did it with Goldwater. They did it with Reagan.

We ARE this generation's Goldwater.

(Romney's father supported Goldwater's opponent, Rockefeller afterall. History repeats itself).

 

[Matt Collins]

Because he thinks he stands to make money and potentially have power/influence.

Not making money, but yes power and influence is what we should all be striving for. If we don't have power, someone else will, and I can assure you those other people don't care about liberty.

Staying with the GOP may be the best course of action for the time being, but the more Collins yaps, the less I want to be part of it. When someone with his sociopathic/narcissistic tendencies starts telling other people what to do, especially given his superficial knowledge on this subject--I certainly don't want to participate. And there's no way in hell that I'll ever donate to any organization that gives him a cent.

heh that's really sad and lame.

 

[wgadget]

It appears they are even fighting the Libertarians by keeping GJ off if certain key ballots. THAT'S just how smarmy the GOP is.

Impressive. It almost makes sense to regroup and fight them from the outside.

I know one thing--If RP were to go Indie somehow, we'd have a rudder.