Leaving the GOP is what the establishment WANTS you to do!

[fr33]

Good point. That's why I recommend not in anyway trying to take it over. Just become part of it. Become friends with other who are part of it. Work with them when you came. Encourage your friends to become part of it. The direction changes but people feel like they are responsible for the change in direction. They feel that they like the change in direction. Everyone wins.

I'll support you guys but I'm afraid I'm so anti-war that I cannot get along with them on a personal level.

 

[Origanalist]

I'll support you guys but I'm afraid I'm so anti-war that I cannot get along with them on a personal level.

That really is the toughest part, so many of them see it as a ongoing necessity.

 

[Monotaur]

I'll support you guys but I'm afraid I'm so anti-war that I cannot get along with them on a personal level.

Members of our local GOP have such stark differences as well (more than anti-war too). We usually don't butt heads or bring up "controversial" stuff, but the only way to change minds is to use your voice. Otherwise, they won't hear you and then group-think sets in.

EDIT: Is is tough sometimes I'll give you that. Especially when there are Romney signs everywhere or candidates start talking about insane positions. Just don't support those folks and only support those that you agree with. You have much more voice inside the party than just voting in a primary too - you can help shape how funds are allocated to candidates, help determine your local GOP public presence, and other things as well.

 

[gjdavis60]

I think our reason to be in the Republican Party is to capture it, not capitulate to establishment candidates or establishment policies. The most important things we can do within the party to forward our agenda are:

1. Participate in local Republican Party organizations. Being membership organizations, all Republican Party organizations are subject to the will of their members. Controlling a political organization usually requires nothing more than a simple majority. Local organizations feed into state party organizations proportionally and state organizations make up the RNC proportionally. If we become the members - if we begin to gain majorities - we will begin to assert control. I believe this is attainable if for no other reason than the huge disparity of enthusiasm between our movement and the rest of the Republican establishment. We can win by simply showing up. This is one of the reasons we have made so much progress in the past 7 years. I hope we can continue motivating people to get involved.

2. Get "our" candidates on ballots. I believe that most people will vote for a liberty-minded Republican over a Libertarian 9 times out of 10. The two parties have huge financial, legal, and psychological advantages over third parties: so much so, that I think it is easier overcome the obstacles within the Republican Party than to win elections from within a third party.

Just my two cents.

 

[mport1]

Luckily I've never had to join the GOP to vote for Ron Paul, and I never plan to do so.

 

[cpike]

The voting public and the possible neocon delegates in reserve disagree with you. We are an irate minority.

We were a minority here in Minnesota in 2008, we're completely ramrodded at the state convention, much like that RNC this year; but after four years of hard work in 2012 we became the majority.

 

[fr33]

We were a minority here in Minnesota in 2008, we're completely ramrodded at the state convention, much like that RNC this year; but after four years of hard work in 2012 we became the majority.

22,000 people can remove all of you fairly easily, for decades. At the least they can contribute enough to help rules being kept changed so this strategy will continue to fail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2012_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries#Minnesota

 

[twomp]

Really going to be that way, aren't you, pal? Wow...

First off, I don't have a horse in the race related to Collins. I don't care what he says or does. In fact, a couple weeks ago he was doing the same thing (posting multiple threads over the same subject) and I jokingly (at the same time, seriously) asked him why and if we could merge the threads.

Second, do you not recall all of the people who were saying they were done with the GOP after the RNC?

I suggest you back off in your assumption that I am defending anyone. I made a very valid point related to the subject, not the poster. And I should have been more specific in that I was speaking of not only threads, but posts as well from pissed off people around here-we all were, but, some were saying they were done with the GOP outright and switching parties (of which I will not start digging just for you, your highness).

We have too many little whiny pissants on this forum and it's very tiring. I sometimes think we have too many former leftists on here (the constant whining and feeling the need to nitpick every single thing, and I say this in all generality).

They are whiners so they must be leftist even though you seem like you're the one whining here. You made a point that there are threads from people whining that they want to leave the GOP. That is true but do you notice the same amount or even more of the same threads regarding staying in the GOP? I suppose since you agree with those people, you won't "whine" about that.

Mr. Collins has made I don't know how many threads now about this, maybe if someone else had done it, it would have gotten merged or someone would have called it spamming by now. How many thread about the same thing do you think I can make before the mods consider me a spammer?

As for suggesting that you are defending Mr. Collins. It's easy, I made a comment towards him, you decide to speak out against it so I consider that defending him. It doesn't make you a horrible person by any means.

 

[fr33]

The neocon establishment have the media on their side. I can't imagine Rush or Hannity changing their minds. Their bosses are too invested in the corporatist sham of American imperialism. They can march the sheep into conventions if they want to.

 

[AJ Antimony]

Agreed!

 

[cpike]

22,000 people can remove all of you fairly easily, for decades. At the least they can contribute enough to help rules being kept changed so this strategy will continue to fail.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2012_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries#Minnesota

They didn't, and they won't. In my BPOU we had a Paul Slate and a Santorum slate, they outnumbered us for sure, but they were disinterested and most left before the vote to send delegates to state and CD 4/5. Some that DID go through supported the Paul slate at state after Santorum dropped out. It's the Romney people you have to worry about, the Santorum supporters are not the corrupt, they're well meaning, and some are even somewhat libertarian, just didn't finish taking the red pill.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The neocon establishment have the media on their side. I can't imagine Rush or Hannity changing their minds. Their bosses are too invested in the corporatist sham of American imperialism. They can march the sheep into conventions if they want to.

Then, we need to figure out how to overcome it. Have any ideas? I and others have thought that possibly people like Peter Thiel and/or Jim Rogers might be persuaded to start a new TV network.

Look, we don't have the option of just giving up. It can and will get a lot worse than it is now if we do nothing. So much in fact, that what we have now would look like paradise, in hindsight.

So, instead of thinking about how hard it will be, or how the odds are stacked against us, put your brain power on ideas to succeed.

 

[69360]

Who's leaving? I can vote Libertarian for President as a Republican.

Best of both worlds. Screw em.

Same here. I'm not leaving.

 

[tremendoustie]

Then, we need to figure out how to overcome it. Have any ideas? I and others have thought that possibly people like Peter Thiel and/or Jim Rogers might be persuaded to start a new TV network.

Look, we don't have the option of just giving up. It can and will get a lot worse than it is now if we do nothing. So much in fact, that what we have now would look like paradise, in hindsight.

So, instead of thinking about how hard it will be, or how the odds are stacked against us, put your brain power on ideas to succeed.

I have a humble suggestion: www.freestateproject.org

We have to concentrate our efforts, if we are to succeed. Frankly, I don't think focusing on the national scale is going to be a successful tactic. We are too spread out, and they are too entrenched. I think state nullification/independence is a far more feasible method of protecting ourselves from the federal government, than attempting to elect a president or congressional majority, and roll back federal bureacracy.

But yes, I plan to vote GJ, and continue to work within the republican party. Especially here in NH, much of the state level republican party does actually stand for liberty.

 

[kylejack]

I was never in the Republican Party. If a good liberty candidate comes along, I don't care which party they are in, I will back them.

 

[Occam's Banana]

You can't climb a mountain by starting at the top.

Everyone seems to be obsessed with the "bright, shiny object" of the Presidency. And to a lesser (but still greatly excessive) extent with Congress and other public offices.

So much so that they never see all the low-hanging fruit, ripe for the picking - things like precinct committee seats & local/state party positions.

And if they do see it - or have it pointed out to them - they dismiss it because plucking it might require them to associate with a bunch of "nasty GOP scumbags" (or some such thing).

So they retreat into (relatively) friendly & welcoming venues like the Libertarian Party, where never they hear a discouraging word, and all the echoes are of voices that agree with them on (just about) everything.

The voting public and the possible neocon delegates in reserve disagree with you. We are an irate minority.

So are the people who actually go out and participate in their local & state parties - regardless of whether they are "pro" or "anti" Ron Paul.

The vast majority of Republicans (and Democrats) do nothing more than vote in general elections. Fewer vote in primaries, and of those who do, fewer still take any part at all in the dull, boring hum-drum of month-to-month party business. Thus, an irate minority can acquire & exercise *enormous* influence - *far* more influence than will *ever* be achieved by those who insist on trying to use 3rd parties to achieve electoral succes.

Those who prefer to go the 3rd-party route with purposes OTHER than achieving electoral success are doing fine. There are many important things they can work on and accomplish - education, promotion, waking people up, etc. Unfortunately, significant & maintainable electoral success just isn't one of those things. If getting libertarians voted into public office is at the top of your liberty movement "todo" list, then "insurging" the GOP is pretty much the only viable option.

I believe that most people will vote for a liberty-minded Republican over a Libertarian 9 times out of 10. The two parties have huge financial, legal, and psychological advantages over third parties: so much so, that I think it is easier overcome the obstacles within the Republican Party than to win elections from within a third party.

Just my two cents.

That bit alone is worth a lot more than just two cents.

What you said would be just as true if the "liberty-minded Republican" and the "Libertarian" that you mention had *exactly* the same beliefs & positions on *everything*.

The Republican "brand" has social credibility. The Libertarian "brand" does not.

That sucks. That *really* sucks - and it sucks *hard*. But things are what they are.

 

[fr33]

Then, we need to figure out how to overcome it. Have any ideas? I and others have thought that possibly people like Peter Thiel and/or Jim Rogers might be persuaded to start a new TV network.

Look, we don't have the option of just giving up. It can and will get a lot worse than it is now if we do nothing. So much in fact, that what we have now would look like paradise, in hindsight.

So, instead of thinking about how hard it will be, or how the odds are stacked against us, put your brain power on ideas to succeed.

I support joining the Libertarian party, adjusting their platform to fit us, and start growing our base. Here come the irrelevancy insults. I know all about it. They are no more irrelevant than the liberty movement.

Let's talk about growing our base. We can logically win arguments, ya know? Ron Paul accurately predicted many things and we are predicting things as well. It is possible to prove our point of view is right. It does take time. This movement has some irreconcilable principles that the GOP just won't budge on. They won't budge because it pays for all their campaign funds. They get off on warfare. They profit from it. They feel they can't survive without it. It's unacceptable.

 

[FrankRep]

Julie Borowski - RNC Corruption: Should Libertarians Leave Republican Party?

RNC Corruption: Should Libertarians Leave Republican Party?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2qhx_LXAOw



The RNC mistreated Ron Paul and his delegates. Does this mean it is time to leave the Republican Party? Or does it mean that libertarians are being effective in the GOP? I weigh in.

Please like me on Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/JulieBorowski

Follow me on Twitter: http:///www.twitter.com/JulieBorowski

 

[Xhin]

Should Libertarians Leave Republican Party?

They tried that once before. The Libertarian Party was the result of that.

 

[jclay2]

Guys, this is a revolution. It will not be decided based on whether or not we can take over the republican party.