Ky. County clerk makes a stand against feds

[Tywysog Cymru]

You can stand up to the feds and still be hopelessly wrong. Recall George Wallace, who proclaimed, "In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!" and then 5 months later stood in the doorway at the University of Alabama to try to prevent federal troops from enforcing racial integration at the university. Was he a hero or just a bigot who didn't give a damn about the rule of law?

That comparison again? The two issues are not related but it seems like the LGBT activists have to use that comparison because it's the only one they can use.

 

[ChiefJustice]

The law of the land is lawlessness anyway. You can't judge her on moral grounds. You can only judge her on the grounds which are the basis for the law those judges conjured.

She isn't respecting the "dignity" of the institution (of either gay marriage or SCOTUS circus).

Popular opinion says her actions are offensive. That's what she is guilty of.

Gay marriage decision took a big dump on the Constitution so I see it as laughable that people applaud that decision which threw the rule of law out the window and now everyone is saying she must respect the rule of law.

She's fighting for her "right to express her identity". She should be celebrated like everyone else who's doing the same thing.

No she should not be celebrated. I don't care if you disagree with a SC decision which advanced the civil rights of gays.

It's the law. Her actions are not that of some heroic freedom fighter. Give them their licenses or quit. That's the bottom line. Her argument about her religion is nonsense. The law can't be twisted by an individual based off religious beliefs.

 

[surf]

Bunch of folks wanting to turn this thread into another debate about homo marriage....

Would you please go find one of the countless other discussions on that matter and leave this thread for discussing standing up to the feds...

what Sonny said. tod may see this as standing up to the feds, but essentially this is a "personal rights" issue if not a convoluted "freedom issue." this "clerk" is like a TSA agent that won't let your mom on a cross country flight (for some random reason, perhaps the agent will cite "god's authority"). sure, you're mom can take Greyhound....

if you believe that a gov't should be able take away or hinder an individual's ability to do something peaceful, it seems that this homo mountain is the one you're making your stand on in this thread.

gov't should never limit individuals as they pursue peaceful endeavors.

 

[tod evans]

what Sonny said. tod may see this as standing up to the feds, but essentially this is a "personal rights" issue if not a convoluted "freedom issue." this "clerk" is like a TSA agent that won't let your mom on a cross country flight (for some random reason, perhaps the agent will cite "god's authority"). sure, you're mom can take Greyhound....

if you believe that a gov't should be able take away or hinder an individual's ability to do something peaceful, it seems that this homo mountain is the one you're making your stand on in this thread.

gov't should never limit individuals as they pursue peaceful endeavors.

Earlier in this thread I drew the analogy between kops in Co. not enforcing federal weed laws, how is this different?

I don't like kops, weed laws or government approved marriage, hell I'm not very fond of homos or Evangelicals either but the last thing I want is for the federal government to enforce it's edicts at the peril of a local governments employee. What's next, firing the kops in Co. and Wa. that aren't busting pot smokers?

People aren't ever going to become homogenous, like minded folks tend to clump together, permitting the fed to homogenize the groups isn't going to work out well....

 

[William Tell]

That comparison again? The two issues are not related but it seems like the LGBT activists have to use that comparison because it's the only one they can use.

Sonny's comparisons generally seem to mirror what you see on the Huffington Post.

 

[tod evans]

You can stand up to the feds and still be hopelessly wrong. Recall George Wallace, who proclaimed, "In the name of the greatest people that have ever trod this earth, I draw the line in the dust and toss the gauntlet before the feet of tyranny, and I say segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever!" and then 5 months later stood in the doorway at the University of Alabama to try to prevent federal troops from enforcing racial integration at the university. Was he a hero or just a bigot who didn't give a damn about the rule of law?

Both.

In a free society there will be bigotry, and racism, and sexism and religious disputes and, and, and.......

I don't want to live in a cookie cutter, federally mandated society.

Give me messy freedom every time!

 

[Christian Liberty]

Earlier in this thread I drew the analogy between kops in Co. not enforcing federal weed laws, how is this different?

I don't like kops, weed laws or government approved marriage, hell I'm not very fond of homos or Evangelicals either but the last thing I want is for the federal government to enforce it's edicts at the peril of a local governments employee. What's next, firing the kops in Co. and Wa. that aren't busting pot smokers?

People aren't ever going to become homogenous, like minded folks tend to clump together, permitting the fed to homogenize the groups isn't going to work out well....

Yeah, I mostly agree with this. We need more decisions made at the local level, gives everyone far more choice of what type of society they want to live in.

 

[tod evans]

To me, this woman is in error. If her faith tells her she can't participate in what her job legally demands of her, she should resign in good conscience, especially being a government employee. She has no protections and really no valid argument.

This is a case where the Religious community should show some consistency and intellectual honesty... she is brave, but wrong.

There is no singular religious community to be consistent, just within Christianity there are numerous factions that argue amongst themselves like old married couples...

Then if one were to drag in the other "recognized" religions there'd be all out war...

This isn't an issue for the fed to be involved in.

 

[tod evans]

No she should not be celebrated. I don't care if you disagree with a SC decision which advanced the civil rights of gays.

It's the law. Her actions are not that of some heroic freedom fighter. Give them their licenses or quit. That's the bottom line. Her argument about her religion is nonsense. The law can't be twisted by an individual based off religious beliefs.

Never stood in "Family Court" have you?

Laws are twisted and perverted daily by every member of the "Just-Us" system from kops to judges, sometimes for religious beliefs other times for arbitrary reasons.

If you want a homogenous legal system then you must remove the human element.

I don't want that! I want messy freedom and that includes the freedom to be an "ist" or a "phobe"....

 

[Influenza]

If she refuses to 'cover up' for her photo ID, then. The analogy stands.

"My religion says women must cover up. The woman pictured on this license is not covered up, therefore I will not issue it."
"My religion says marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. This license has 2 men listed, therefore I will not issue it."

Why not a doctor not signing, or a clerk not issuing, a birth certificate for a baby born out of wedlock?

A photo ID has absolutely no significance as to whether or not a Muslim would argue that a woman shouldn't drive a car on actual religious grounds. I simply wanted the original post to say something more like "A saudi arabian DMV worker not issuing a woman a driver's license due to his cultural beliefs" or at least something that wasn't so horribly generalized and incorrect as what was posted

There is in Saudi Arabia. http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...llah-saudi-arabia-only-muslim-nation-where-w/

That isn't a religious belief. The culture of the Arabian Peninsula subjugated women long before Islam and long after

 

[Christian Liberty]

Ugh... I hate how secular society pretends false religious beliefs are similar to true ones.

Drivers licensing should be abolished.

 

[juleswin]

A photo ID has absolutely no significance as to whether or not a Muslim would argue that a woman shouldn't drive a car on actual religious grounds. I simply wanted the original post to say something more like "A saudi arabian DMV worker not issuing a woman a driver's license due to his cultural beliefs" or at least something that wasn't so horribly generalized and incorrect as what was posted



That isn't a religious belief. The culture of the Arabian Peninsula subjugated women long before Islam and long after

It is actually a religious belief, the country has religious and non religious police and it is the religious police that are tasked to enforce such laws, so a devout salafi (Wahhabi) Muslim from Saudi Arabia would reject a woman from getting a driving license based on religious objections where say a devout Shia Saudi Muslim wouldn't have a problem whatsoever.

It is the religion more than the culture that is at play here

 

[Sonny Tufts]

That comparison again? The two issues are not related but it seems like the LGBT activists have to use that comparison because it's the only one they can use.

The issue that is exactly the same in each case is that of a public official, who presumably took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States, refusing to abide by the law. Just as there were those who thought Brown was wrongly decided there are those who believe the same about Obergefell. But like it or not, the two SCOTUS decisions are the law, and any public official who refuses to resign and continues to defy the law is a hypocrite and a fool.

 

[Influenza]

It is actually a religious belief, the country has religious and non religious police and it is the religious police that are tasked to enforce such laws, so a devout salafi (Wahhabi) Muslim from Saudi Arabia would reject a woman from getting a driving license based on religious objections where say a devout Shia Saudi Muslim wouldn't have a problem whatsoever.

It is the religion more than the culture that is at play here

The Wahhabis will claim they are arguing it religiously, but their beliefs are rooted in their backwards culture, a culture where they would bury their female infants alive 1500 years ago. However, the nuance between religious beliefs and religious beliefs originating from culture is hard to differentiate and I will concede this point

 

[Jamesiv1]

She's fighting for her "right to express her identity". She should be celebrated like everyone else who's doing the same thing.

If she was in the private sector, yes. But she's not in the private sector.

You take a government paycheck, you play by government rules.

Employees that refuse to adhere to company policies don't get celebrated, they get fired.

 

[JK/SEA]

if she came into my business, i'd tell her to GTFO...

 

[tod evans]

if she came into my business, i'd tell her to GTFO...

The clerk or the homo?

 

[specsaregood]

If she was in the private sector, yes. But she's not in the private sector.
You take a government paycheck, you play by government rules.

just following orders, bro.

I'm glad snowden didn't follow your rules.

 

[juleswin]

just following orders, bro.

Yea, because we all know that anytime anyone just follows orders, they are putting Jews in concentration camps. These are essentially her bosses telling her to do something for them, not something to other people and you want to play the Nazi card. Nobody is asking her to do something she has never done before, they are just asking her to do her job, a job she has done for countless number of people in her county.

 

[tod evans]

Yea, because we all know that anytime anyone just follows orders, they are putting Jews in concentration camps. These are essentially her bosses telling her to do something for them, not something to other people and you want to play the Nazi card. Nobody is asking her to do something she has never done before, they are just asking her to do her job, a job she has done for countless number of people in her county.

I'm calling bullshit!

Since when are the feds a county clerks boss?