Ky. County clerk makes a stand against feds

[juleswin]

What you are arguing for is egalitarianism, not liberty. It is a common mistake that many people who call themselves libertarians make (see the national Libertarian Party).

Libertarianism is about ending government, not making sure it's "fair" for everyone.

Besides, there are now all kinds of groups who are now being discriminated against because of these marriage laws. If you were consistent, you'd argue for their "fair share" and "equal rights" too.

Let's be libertarians and let's always argue against licensure and government entirely. Leave the egalitarianism to the socialists.

I agree with you about ending licenses and government but it should be done in a fair way and yes I said fair way. If the government is not discriminating on citizens on the basis of race, gender, religion etc etc etc, they shouldn't also discriminate on the basis of race, gender, religion etc etc when it comes to dolling out favors. If you want to be a pious, devout and consistent christian at the work place, take your ass to the private world. Cos you lose that privilege as a govt worker.

Also would it be OK with you if govt stopped sending out SS cheques to only college graduates? while they continue to collect SS taxes from everyone and sending out cheques to everybody else

 

[Sola_Fide]

I agree with you about ending licenses and government but it should be done in a fair way and yes I said fair way. If the government is not discriminating on citizens on the basis of race, gender, religion etc etc etc, they shouldn't also discriminate on the basis of race, gender, religion etc etc when it comes to dolling out favors. If you want to be a pious, devout and consistent christian at the work place, take your ass to the private world. Cos you lose that privilege as a govt worker.

Also would it be OK with you if govt stopped sending out SS cheques to only college graduates? while they continue to collect SS taxes from everyone and sending out cheques to everybody else

You just re-argued for egalitarianism. I reject your entire argument and everyone who values liberty should too. It's not an argument that is based on liberty. You need to re-think your worldview. Your argument authorizes just about every inch of statism that can be imagined.

 

[DisneyFan]

It is because her name appears on every document issued from that office. Even if a deputy clerk handles it, it still goes out with her name on it.

Thanks for the info.

The problem I have with all of this is the focus on religious freedom. It is one thing to take a stand concerning federal vs. state power. It is quite another to claim that insisting on a government worker doing their job violates the 1st Amendment. One can see the problem when one considers the hypothetical of the Kentucky legislature giving the nod to SSM. Her "religious freedom" argument would still apply in that case and if accepted you'd have the ridiculous situation of part of the state not being able to hand out the licenses its legislature has approved.

 

[juleswin]

You just re-argued for egalitarianism. I reject your entire argument and everyone who values liberty should too. It's not an argument that is based on liberty. You need to re-think your worldview. Your argument authorizes just about every inch of statism that can be imagined.

I really hope you are on record calling Ron Paul out for not being libertarian enough when he used essentially the same seasoning to explain his support for earmarks. He believed that one the legislature should be responsible for distributing govt funds and his constituents should get their fair share back from govt.

I agree with that stance and I believe these gay men should use every means necessary to get every penny they paid in back to them.

 

[Sola_Fide]

I really hope you are on record calling Ron Paul out for not being libertarian enough when he used essentially the same seasoning to explain his support for earmarks. He believed that one the legislature should be responsible for distributing govt funds and his constituents should get their fair share back from govt.

I agree with that stance and I believe these gay men should use every means necessary to get every penny they paid in back to them.

More egalitarianism. Good for you. You keep fighting for statism to be spread evenly and I'll keep arguing against statism entirely.

 

[specsaregood]

//

 

[Sola_Fide]

Isn't that exactly what she is doing by not issuing them to neither hetero nor homo couples? It is almost mind boggling that every person on this forum isn't supporting her for that fact alone. Get the govt out of marriage, this woman is an elected official doing just that!

I agree, and admittedly, I am still learning the facts about this case. If that is what she was doing, I support her even more.

 

[specsaregood]

I agree, and admittedly, I am still learning the facts about this case. If that is what she was doing, I support her even more.

It seems too many are hung up on her reasons or her personal life history and not actually focusing on the net effect.

 

[Sola_Fide]

It seems too many are hung up on her reasons or her personal life history and not actually focusing on the net effect.

Yes. I agree. They do that because it's all they have to cling to.

 

[specsaregood]

Yes. I agree. They do that because it's all they have to cling to.

If it was a different issue like a district attorney refusing to prosecute drug crimes they would all be cheering him/her on; not saying they should just do their job or be fired/quit.

 

[Voluntarist]

xxxxx

 

[Anti Federalist]

If it was a different issue like a district attorney refusing to prosecute drug crimes they would all be cheering him/her on; not saying they should just do their job or be fired/quit.

Heh, good point.

I'd like to see this break up the love affair that modern AmeriKan Christianity has with the government and its enforcers.

 

[Ender]

Hey, would someone tell DFF to stop following me around and neg repping me?

If you don't agree, Dude, then have some dialog instead of the stupid neg-rep stuff.

 

[thoughtomator]

Isn't that exactly what she is doing by not issuing them to neither hetero nor homo couples? It is almost mind boggling that every person on this forum isn't supporting her for that fact alone. Get the govt out of marriage, this woman is an elected official doing just that!

That's not her desired end, and it's clearly going to be a time-limited situation, so she doesn't get points for that. You may as well congratulate robed federal tyrants for throwing open the question of whether there are any actual valid, current laws on government-marriage at all, which has the same effect only on a vastly greater scale.

No, she is quite a dangerous character in asserting that she as a government employee can unilaterally modify her own lawful duty. She's not disputing the law on a federalist argument, she's disputing it based on an assertion that her own personal view of "God's law" is the ultimate legal authority governing her actions as a government employee.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Heh, good point.

I'd like to see this break up the love affair that modern AmeriKan Christianity has with the government and its enforcers.

Ohh don't I wish.

 

[tod evans]

Heh, good point.

I'd like to see this break up the love affair that modern AmeriKan Christianity has with the [federal]government and its enforcers.

I actually think this is an achievable goal so long as they're permitted an outlet for their authoritarianism...

Individual states or even county's within a state that can proscribe behavior within their borders would get lots of attention..

Federal homogenization creates a "United State", not "United States"...

 

[LibertyEagle]

I actually think this is an achievable goal so long as they're permitted an outlet for their authoritarianism...

Individual states or even county's within a state that can proscribe behavior within their borders would get lots of attention..

Federal homogenization creates a "United State", not "United States"...

I think that's a great idea. I mean, we were supposed to be 50 test beds of liberty anyway, right? And each community within with different rules of operation and corresponding ordinances. If you don't like one, vote with your feet.

 

[Ender]

I actually think this is an achievable goal so long as they're permitted an outlet for their authoritarianism...

Individual states or even county's within a state that can proscribe behavior within their borders would get lots of attention..

Federal homogenization creates a "United State", not "United States"...

Actually that would be united States; the so-called Civil War ended the united States and formed the United States Corp, of which we are all now a slave to.

 

[euphemia]

But why should the gay couple be inconvenienced? its not like they pay their local taxes in the other county.

It's inconvenience, and also insanity to apply to the same place and be declined four times.

Marriage licenses are a tax. They are not free. The cost varies from county to county and from state to state. A lot of people get married in different places from where they live because the tax is less. There are seven counties immediately surrounding Rowan county they could go to. And if they really want to make a statement, they could drive right through Lewis county into Ohio and ask John Kasich to perform the ceremony.

These days inconvenience is not an issue when we are talking about weddings. I'm in travel and tourism and I know people go thousands of miles and spend tens of thousands of dollars for weddings. This couple has been together for 17 years. If they wanted to get married, they should just go get married.

This is really about the attention and the drama. Intelligent people wouldn't bother defending this couple.

Make no mistake. There is a lot of nonsense going on in Rowan county that should probably be brought out into the light of day, but that's not what we're talking about. Welcome to the world of small town politics.

 

[thoughtomator]

biggest mistake the Founders made was capitalizing the "U" in "United States"