Kurt endorses Mitt Romney/Paul Ryan ticket....

[sailingaway]

Sadly, numerous recent developments have returned the prior apathy to many in the liberty movement.

Yeah, and I want people to snap out of it. Ron has served as a magnet to draw us all close enough to him that we could see EACHOTHER, and we now ARE a constituency and whether we agree on a specific candidate at a specific time or not, we have more power to create our shared vision in touch with each other than separately. Besides, I just like being around these people:

 

[sailingaway]

People are in denial if they think that Ron ever had a chance to win the GOP nomination after he got third in Iowa and lost badly to Romney in New Hampshire. There's no possible way to win the GOP nomination if you can't win the popular vote in 15-20 states. It doesn't matter if you can sneak in a few more delegates at a few state conventions. Let's get real here.

You guys are in denial raising the straw arguement of Ron WINNING THE GOP NOMINATION over and over. That was always a longshot and shining the brightest possible light on the one we consider the Pied Piper of liberty at the convention and in the media was the secondary prize that we were well on our way to getting. THAT is what was taken.

Instead of Rand letting Ron have Ron's year, which was after all based on RON'S support, it looks like he jumped in to be the tame Paul allowed on stage -- when Ron was still fiighting to be nominated to the floor at convention, and still as of the 'deal' last night, whatever it was, had delegates in appeals in enough states that even having lost some were fighting to nominate him.

Any speech at RNC should have been Ron's and if Ron couldn't get one easily because Ron wouldn't endorse, Rand undermining his leverage by giving Romney a talking point of having Rand up there to placate us is not the way to make friends of RON Paul supporters. There is no way he 'had' to endorse before convention. He did it to get that speech, on the basis of Ron's support, imho, because as Ron's son NO ONE expected him to do that before convention.

 

[DeMintConservative]

Endorsing Romney in Minnesota is suicide. He would have been better off endorsing Obama. The polls already heavily favor Klobuchar, this is effectively surrendering and trying to get on good terms with the party bosses. I guess he never really wanted to win.

yeah he just lost his crossover appeal.

He actually could have made a good commercial talking about how Minnesotans are independent and so is he, which is why he isn't endorsing Mitt Romney for president. That would get people to look at him, this just reinforces what most Minnesotans already think about Romney and those who would endorse him.

I still support him because I'm looking at the big picture, but my feelings for him have changed. I still feel like I've been stabbed in the back... same pain I felt when Rand endorsed Romney.

But like ssjevot stated, he would have been better off not endorsing Mitt and actually came out and stated where he disagreed with him. We do things different in Minnesota so it would have worked better for him, I'm sure.

- ML

First, pretty much every Obama voter is already voting for Klobuchar. Endorsing Obama - or staying neutral - would just lose him the votes of many Republicans. He'd be lucky to cross 20% of the vote.

Then, endorsing Obama would put an end to his political career in the GOP. As well of every other Ron Paul republican in Minnesota and probably around the country. Do you want to win primaries within the Democrat party these days with a platform of small government and capitalism? Well, go ahead. You'd get to try it if a Republican candidate for senate decided to endorse Obama.

Finally, I strongly suspect Romney will do better than Bills in November (in Minnesota). They'll both lose, and big, but Romney will lose by a smaller margin.

 

[Brett85]

You guys are in denial raising the straw arguement of Ron WINNING THE GOP NOMINATION over and over. That was always a longshot and shining the brightest possible light on the one we consider the Pied Piper of liberty at the convention and in the media was the secondary prize that we were well on our way to getting. THAT is what was taken.

Instead of Rand letting Ron have Ron's year, which was after all based on RON'S support, it looks like he jumped in to be the tame Paul allowed on stage -- when Ron was still fiighting to be nominated to the floor at convention, and still as of the 'deal' last night, whatever it was, had delegates in appeals in enough states that even having lost some were fighting to nominate him.

Any speech at RNC should have been Ron's and if Ron couldn't get one easily because Ron wouldn't endorse, Rand undermining his leverage by giving Romney a talking point of having Rand up there to placate us is not the way to make friends of RON Paul supporters. There is no way he 'had' to endorse before convention. He did it to get that speech, on the basis of Ron's support, imho, because as Ron's son NO ONE expected him to do that before convention.

Rand endorsed before the convention to get the speech and to be the VP nominee. He got the speech but not the VP nomination. I still think the speech is a net positive for the liberty movement overall.

 

[jbauer]

This...

Remember that time before you woke up, took up arms and joined the Revolution? that long period of time were political coming and goings were small blips on the radar in the back of your mind?

that asleepness, or zombification is still 97% of the country.

People here need to get over liberty members playing the establishments game when it nets them great victories. Rand saved himself a spot at the debate table in 2016 with his endorsement. because the zombies that make up the GOP voting base don't give a shit about liberty, sound money, or freedom or anything else.

at all

period.

the only thing the majority of the GOP give any thought, any incremental amount of brain power to is the defeat of Barack Obama. and anyone who plans on putting that little (R) next to their name has to hum the exact same song. OR TAKE ALL OF THE BLAME FOR LOSING.

It pisses me off so much to see how often these people who consider themselves part of this movement call people asleep when it comes to our issues, but they themselves fall asleep when a few of our elected guys use different tactics to stay in the game.

If Kurt starts pushing legislation that strips me of my freedoms or any beliefs that I hold that keep me a part of this movement, then call me. But if he's just giving a blank endorsement so he can stay in the good graces of the folks watching Sean Hannity spew his garbage, then so be it. good for him.

 

[Bruno]

Yeah, and I want people to snap out of it. Ron has served as a magnet to draw us all close enough to him that we could see EACHOTHER, and we now ARE a constituency and whether we agree on a specific candidate at a specific time or not, we have more power to create our shared vision in touch with each other than separately. Besides, I just like being around these people:

+ rep

I understand and agree with your approach.

 

[cajuncocoa]

You guys are in denial raising the straw arguement of Ron WINNING THE GOP NOMINATION over and over. That was always a longshot and shining the brightest possible light on the one we consider the Pied Piper of liberty at the convention and in the media was the secondary prize that we were well on our way to getting. THAT is what was taken.

Instead of Rand letting Ron have Ron's year, which was after all based on RON'S support, it looks like he jumped in to be the tame Paul allowed on stage -- when Ron was still fiighting to be nominated to the floor at convention, and still as of the 'deal' last night, whatever it was, had delegates in appeals in enough states that even having lost some were fighting to nominate him.

Any speech at RNC should have been Ron's and if Ron couldn't get one easily because Ron wouldn't endorse, Rand undermining his leverage by giving Romney a talking point of having Rand up there to placate us is not the way to make friends of RON Paul supporters. There is no way he 'had' to endorse before convention. He did it to get that speech, on the basis of Ron's support, imho, because as Ron's son NO ONE expected him to do that before convention.

+rep

I know you will probably disagree with this, but I'm starting to wonder if some people (I could, but won't name names) here are more interested in furthering their own careers (for lack of a better word) within the Republican Party than seeing Liberty advance. I know for a fact that there are a few here who seem to be more for Rand than Ron Paul...and I guess that's OK, but let's not pretend they are the same and let's also not pretend that this is anything other than primarily RON Paul's forum, and it was for years before RAND ran for the Senate. I'm not going to pretend it's OK for Rand and other candidates to throw away all that we RON supporters have worked for and longed for just so RAND can have a longshot at making a run for POTUS in 2016 and beyond. I understand why RON is OK with it ... blood is thicker than water, but I don't have to be OK with it. What we've been trying to accomplish is bigger than both of them, and it cannot be done within the GOP no matter how much RON wanted it to be so. He didn't always feel that way...he ran as a Libertarian for POTUS in 1988.

 

[jdcole]

Paid for by the Republican Party of Minnesota.
Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.
www.mngop.com.

Ah, that's what's going on.

 

[TCE]

+rep

I know you will probably disagree with this, but I'm starting to wonder if some people (I could, but won't name names) here are more interested in furthering their own careers (for lack of a better word) within the Republican Party than seeing Liberty advance.

As a staunch defender of Matt Collins, I completely disagree with this statement. It's not like he has taken credit for every single victory we've ever had, or anything http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?385345-David-Adams-fmr.-Rand-Paul-campaign-manager-talks-Massie-possibly-challenging-McConnell&p=4569146&viewfull=1#post4569146.

 

[cajuncocoa]

As a staunch defender of Matt Collins, I completely disagree with this statement. It's not like he has taken credit for every single victory we've ever had, or anything http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ng-McConnell&p=4569146&viewfull=1#post4569146.

Matt Collins was not even one of the names that crossed my mind when I posted that.

 

[sailingaway]

First, pretty much every Obama voter is already voting for Klobuchar.

You just made that up.

Endorsing Obama - or staying neutral - would just lose him the votes of many Republicans. He'd be lucky to cross 20% of the vote.

Then, endorsing Obama would put an end to his political career in the GOP. As well of every other Ron Paul republican in Minnesota and probably around the country. Do you want to win primaries within the Democrat party these days with a platform of small government and capitalism? Well, go ahead. You'd get to try it if a Republican candidate for senate decided to endorse Obama.

Finally, I strongly suspect Romney will do better than Bills in November (in Minnesota). They'll both lose, and big, but Romney will lose by a smaller margin.

again, all we were saying was wait until after convention instead of breaking a promise to vote for Ron at convention. He promised when people he promised it to had the power to give or take away the party endorsement which is EVERYTHING in the primary. How is it ok in your mind to break that promise?

In this case it came so late someone in the campaign might have told him Ron isn't going to be nominated from the floor based on credentials positions, in which case I would blame them for undermining our delegates in credentials contests, instead of blaming Bills as much. But his promise was to the DELEGATES to wait a week. Why couldn't he do that?

 

[sailingaway]

Rand endorsed before the convention to get the speech and to be the VP nominee. He got the speech but not the VP nomination. I still think the speech is a net positive for the liberty movement overall.

It was Ron's speech to have. You may like Rand better than Ron but those who funded Ron's campaign and worked for it don't, and wanted a crescendo cap to Ron's career facing the general election audience as a nominee onto the floor at RNC. And Rand did it based on RON"s support leverage and the assumption people would follow Ron's son.

Ron is his FATHER. What does that say about willingness to put his own advancement first? THAT really bugs me. Ego is one of the biggest ways an honest person can be warped to the dark side in DC.

 

[Imperial]

"Bills doesn't have the money. And for the last few months, the liberty movement in MN has not stepped up in great enough numbers to give him the strong grassroots effort necessary. For activists, the net has to be cast wider, because too many of our own failed to do what they needed to do. And plenty of more establishment activists are still upset over Bills riding the Paul organization to victory at the state convention."

The reason for this is his flip-flopping on foreign policy because he thinks he can raise money by doing so. But this not part of the message you can just "water down" it is the very heart of the message. We wouldn't be here without it. If he has no confidence in it, why should the grassroots people who do believe in it bust their tails for him? They were ready to do so until he goes and says to Al Quie "I'm not a Ron Paul Republican." Yeah they feel used and they have every right to feel that way. I'm sure they'll vote for him too, but anything other than that? probably not unless he convinces them otherwise.

How do you think it's going to look when RP gets 32 Minnesota votes and just after the Senate candidate endorsed Romney. Who is the one not thinking here?

The ones who were raising a ruckus about Quie and foreign aid were not volunteering as a general rule (although there are a couple of exceptions).

Ron Paul got second (and a good ways behind Santorum) in an EXTREMELY low turnout caucus. Nothing like the much bigger general election. It isn't just about catering to us. We know he is a liberty guy on the whole- I've only seen a couple of really substantive deviances from a Paulite worldview.

How will it look? Nobody will care very much when Romney wins the nomination, but it does ease the heartburn from some of those establishment types who voted for Carlson and liked Hegseth.

People are still angry over Seifert/Emmer in 2010, let alone Bills/Hegseth in 2012. This isn't rocket science- Republicans can't win in Minnesota without uniting their party.

 

[Brett85]

Ron is his FATHER. What does that say about willingness to put his own advancement first? THAT really bugs me. Ego is one of the biggest ways an honest person can be warped to the dark side in DC.

I think he was trying to advance the liberty movement, not his own career. The liberty movement will only be advanced if Rand can get along with establishment Republicans. But the fact is that Rand endorsed Ron in the primary, and then didn't endorse Romney until all of the nominating contests were over. When he endorsed Romney, he even said that Ron was always his first choice.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

It was Ron's speech to have. You may like Rand better than Ron but those who funded Ron's campaign and worked for it don't, and wanted a crescendo cap to Ron's career facing the general election audience as a nominee onto the floor at RNC. And Rand did it based on RON"s support leverage and the assumption people would follow Ron's son.

Ron is his FATHER. What does that say about willingness to put his own advancement first? THAT really bugs me. Ego is one of the biggest ways an honest person can be warped to the dark side in DC.

Ron was never guaranteed a speech at the RNC so there was no speech "to have". The only people being allowed to speak are people that gave an endorsement.

 

[sailingaway]

Ron was never guaranteed a speech at the RNC so there was no speech "to have". The only people being allowed to speak are people that gave an endorsement.

If Rand hadn't, they would have had to deal with Ron it gave them an easy way out, and used Ron's support to get it.

To those who funded and worked on RON'S campaign it might have ALSO created a foot hold for Rand LATER but it was for the purpose of showing off RON, not Rand.

And put your mind back to that day -- the day of the state GOP convention in TX. Ron just had months of thousands at each rally, several rallies a week. He was dominating conventions. The day after the endorsement delegates in TX voted and Ron literally lost delegates for lack of a single vote. We very close to won Texas. And the enthusiasm died, and later state conventions were impacted. On the roll Ron was on, it would have been very hard to not have him have the states to be nominated on the floor, so all the media was expecting it and would be shocked if he didn't get it at RNC.

Whatever, I'm not here to debate this, but it is something that now simply is part of history, and it had a huge impact on how people here view people.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Lol, why? He endorsed Ron Paul in the Republican primary, which should be all that matters. I still can't wrap my mind about what's so controversial about Republican Senate candidates endorsing the Republican nominee for President.

No kidding. It's a formality.

 

[sailingaway]

No kidding. It's a formality.

you keep ignoring the breaking a direct promise he made to get an endorsement part.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Quote Originally Posted by Cshelton21 View Post
Remember that time before you woke up, took up arms and joined the Revolution? that long period of time were political coming and goings were small blips on the radar in the back of your mind?

that asleepness, or zombification is still 97% of the country.

People here need to get over liberty members playing the establishments game when it nets them great victories. Rand saved himself a spot at the debate table in 2016 with his endorsement. because the zombies that make up the GOP voting base don't give a shit about liberty, sound money, or freedom or anything else.

at all

period.

the only thing the majority of the GOP give any thought, any incremental amount of brain power to is the defeat of Barack Obama. and anyone who plans on putting that little (R) next to their name has to hum the exact same song. OR TAKE ALL OF THE BLAME FOR LOSING.

It pisses me off so much to see how often these people who consider themselves part of this movement call people asleep when it comes to our issues, but they themselves fall asleep when a few of our elected guys use different tactics to stay in the game.

If Kurt starts pushing legislation that strips me of my freedoms or any beliefs that I hold that keep me a part of this movement, then call me. But if he's just giving a blank endorsement so he can stay in the good graces of the folks watching Sean Hannity spew his garbage, then so be it. good for him.

Best post EVER! This is how we play chess instead of checkers people!

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

you keep ignoring the breaking a direct promise he made to get an endorsement part.

And you ignore the direct phone call he made to Ron Paul to discuss the matter. He endorsed during the primary and that's all that matters really. I wouldn't even hold anything against him if he didn't endorse during the primary, because candidates who themselves are running usually don't. Primary is over now and Romney is nominee. Our candidates shouldn't have to give twitter updates every hour kissing Ron Paul's ring to placate us. .