Kokesh on Atheism + Libertarians

[Brian Coulter]

Atheism to most atheists just means "an absence of an active belief in any deities."

How does that defy logic?

It defies logic by claiming to know without any proof or reason, just like all the other religions. Us Agnostics really don't give a shit one way or the other.

 

[MRoCkEd]

Libertarianism has no moral foundation if you take religion out of the equation. From an atheistic perspective, no ideology is right, but rather all are personal preferences. In many historical instances, a godless society worships a totalitarian state instead. Some atheist libertarians like Ayn Rand worship themselves.

 

[otherone]

Libertarianism has no moral foundation if you take religion out of the equation. From an atheistic perspective, no ideology is right, but rather all are personal preferences. In many historical instances, a godless society worships a totalitarian state instead. Some atheist libertarians like Ayn Rand worship themselves.

Please define 'worship'.

 

[BuddyRey]

I don't mind Adam Kokesh trying to make a case for atheistic libertarianism (whatever gets him through the night), but I tend to view people who proselytize for any organized and dogmatic system of belief with some suspicion. We all have our beliefs, but at the end of the day, I only know as much *for sure* about God and the nature of reality as each of the 7 billion people on this crazy blue rock.

Faith is wonderful...spirituality is wonderful. But religion has taken what should be a very individualized and personal thing (a person's relationship with his or her creator and/or the universe), and made it political and hierarchical through collectivist thinking. This has also had the unfortunate effect of stultifying the growth of true seeking and inquiry. After all, a hive-mind tends to become self-satisfied, and rarely asks the same questions of itself on which individual minds are flexed every day.

But I think I digressed a bit...What I really meant to say was that, since nobody here knows anything *for sure* about God's existence, or the nature of the universe, why don't we all just chill out and quit arguing about it so much? It's a pointless and silly thing to argue about, since ultimately, neither you nor the person you're arguing with can *prove* his own case or disprove the other. Let's declare an ecumenical cease-fire for a few hundred years until we have more data.

 

[mczerone]

Kokesh equating libertarianism and this movement to atheism is ignorant and dangerous. If we want to put a dagger in the heart of everything Ron Paul has done, this is a good way to do it.

Yeah, it certainly is hard to find an atheist today. Your hyperbole surrounding anything that's not moderate protestant republican constitutional-originalism is really annoying and only serves to fracture the movement and hurt our chances to grow.

You inability to welcome new people speaking from their own POV is putting a dagger in the heart of Everything Ron has done to spread the message and appeal to a wide, culturally diverse crowd.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, it certainly is hard to find an atheist today. Your hyperbole surrounding anything that's not moderate protestant republican constitutional-originalism is really annoying and only serves to fracture the movement and hurt our chances to grow.

You inability to welcome new people speaking from their own POV is putting a dagger in the heart of Everything Ron has done to spread the message and appeal to a wide, culturally diverse crowd.

Apparently, you and Kokesh have forgotten that Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party. Which, by the way is largely made up of a lot of Christians, or at least people who think that they are.

If you or anyone else wants to proclaim your own belief, that's fine, but when you start trying to paint this entire movement as being godless atheists, that is when the problem starts. If you cannot see why, you are not engaging your brain.

 

[bluesc]

I think Adam needs to take a break.

Spend a month on a tropical island or something.

 

[nojusticenopeace]

Apparently, you and Kokesh have forgotten that Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party. Which, by the way is largely made up of a lot of Christians, or at least people who think that they are.

If you or anyone else wants to proclaim your own belief, that's fine, but when you start trying to paint this entire movement as being godless atheists, that is when the problem starts. If you cannot see why, you are not engaging your brain.

Don't try. These people don't use logic and see what is best to win in the environment and circumstances. They have the biggest blinders on.

 

[Elfshadow]

Apparently, you and Kokesh have forgotten that Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party. Which, by the way is largely made up of a lot of Christians, or at least people who think that they are.

If you or anyone else wants to proclaim your own belief, that's fine, but when you start trying to paint this entire movement as being godless atheists, that is when the problem starts. If you cannot see why, you are not engaging your brain.

The best thing about the Ron Paul movement is that it brings together a large segemant of the populace that would otherwise just hate each other because of our diffrences instead of figuring out our diffrences are pretty small and our simularties are much larger.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The best thing about the Ron Paul movement is that it brings together a large segemant of the populace that would otherwise just hate each other because of our diffrences instead of figuring out our diffrences are pretty small and our simularties are much larger.

I agree with that. That was however not the message Kokesh was sending in his video.

 

[nojusticenopeace]

I think Adam needs to take a break.

Spend a month on a tropical island or something.

Adam is just an immature guy. Had a history of being immature in the military and constantly violated military rules and the UCMJ (even before his exit). He wasn't responsible and was a junior enlisted guy. He hasn't done much with his life besides make an ass out of himself, getting arrested every other time he goes out. He does immature things like taking the microphone in front of Bachmann's campaign bus yelling things into it with just a few people around.

He reminds me of a high school student constantly in trouble for nothing major, just stupid immature things. He hasn't grown up yet, nor will he ever.

 

[bluesc]

Adam is just an immature guy. Had a history of being immature in the military and constantly violated military rules and the UCMJ (even before his exit). He wasn't responsible and was a junior enlisted guy. He hasn't done much with his life besides make an ass out of himself, getting arrested every other time he goes out. He does immature things like taking the microphone in front of Bachmann's campaign bus yelling things into it with just a few people around.

He reminds me of a high school student constantly in trouble for nothing major, just stupid immature things. He hasn't grown up yet, nor will he ever.

It's never too late to grow up. It's pretty clear that drugs have become a major problem for him. An extended period of time away from everything you know does wonders for people.

 

[kah13176]

Atheism defies logic because it presupposes an eternal non-created Universe.

The same problem exists with theism, which presupposes an eternal, non-created god.

 

[nojusticenopeace]

It's never too late to grow up. It's pretty clear that drugs have become a major problem for him. An extended period of time away from everything you know does wonders for people.

You have a point there. You could grow up, but you have to be willing. It just doesn't happen. Got to take effort in life. But yes, clearing one's mind always can help for one's mental well-being.

Good point on the drugs, but looking at him I knew something was wrong with him by the way he looks. He does look really, really drugged out all the time. Probably doing a lot more than marijuana. His behavior and looks suggests he may definitely be on drugs. Sad...especially considering he ran for public office.

 

[slamhead]

I don't follow Adam's logic here. How does libertarianism lead one to be an atheist or agnostic?

 

[pcosmar]

Adam is just an immature guy. Had a history of being immature in the military and constantly violated military rules and the UCMJ (even before his exit). He wasn't responsible and was a junior enlisted guy. He hasn't done much with his life besides make an ass out of himself, getting arrested every other time he goes out. He does immature things like taking the microphone in front of Bachmann's campaign bus yelling things into it with just a few people around.

He reminds me of a high school student constantly in trouble for nothing major, just stupid immature things. He hasn't grown up yet, nor will he ever.

So you are just here to slander the guy?

Good to know.

 

[Elfshadow]

I don't follow Adam's logic here. How does libertarianism lead one to be an atheist or agnostic?

He is assuming that logic and reason leads to libertarainism and atheistism. Hes doing what both the left and the right do. "Im smart and your dumb for not agreeing with my positions." Im an agnostic, but that does not give me the right to claim that any other group of people have it wrong.

 

[mczerone]

Apparently, you and Kokesh have forgotten that Ron Paul is running for the nomination of the Republican Party. Which, by the way is largely made up of a lot of Christians, or at least people who think that they are.

If you or anyone else wants to proclaim your own belief, that's fine, but when you start trying to paint this entire movement as being godless atheists, that is when the problem starts. If you cannot see why, you are not engaging your brain.

Apparently you have forgotten that Ron Paul has been shunned by the GOP leadership and voters alike. There is still a slight chance of a delegate victory at the convention, but we're long past the point of playing nice and pandering to the base. Now is the time to open up our message and appealing to those who aren't rank-and-file moderate protestant republican constitutional-originalists and try to grow our support amongst the wider population.

When you keep trying to stifle discussion and people that are working to engage disparate peoples, you are creating a problem of insularity and stubbornness, which doesn't help our image as a "cult". If you can't see that we're past trying to pretend that we're all homogenous automatons of the GOP, you are not engaging your brain.

 

[mczerone]

Don't try. These people don't use logic and see what is best to win in the environment and circumstances. They have the biggest blinders on.

In our "environment and circumstances" it makes no difference what the stereotypical GOP voter thinks of us. They've already made up their mind via FoxNews that were just another LaRouchite cult with whacked out anti-American ideas. If you think that keeping the same strategy that has given us another "also ran" popular vote result, it would appear that you're the one wearing the blinders and ignoring both reality and logic.

 

[nojusticenopeace]

So you are just here to slander the guy?

Good to know.

No. Slander isn't true. What I have said is true. Look at his records. He was in deep shit for bring a gun home with him. A war weapon. He was knocked a rank for the stuff he did upon his exist. He did indeed take a microphone in front of Bachmann's bus and starting being immature. He has been arrested multiple times and done embarrassing and immature things like interrupting people's speeches...like he did at the 2008 RNC.

That is not slander that is fact.

So nice try.