Kokesh on Atheism + Libertarians

[Elfshadow]

Lacking a god, legal rights become sufficient. They also tend to happen to "work" better than the supernatural ones.

No rights do not come from the government. That a really scary idea cause if they come from government they can take them away.

 

[eduardo89]

The Church of England and the Holy Roman Republic were not atheistic.

Never heard of this "Holy Roman Republic"...?

 

[otherone]

Uh, no, those were atheists who did that. Come on, man. Be proud and OWN it.

The City-states of ancient Sumer were not atheists. Neither were the Japanese whose emperor was a god, or the ancient egyptians, who believed Pharaoh was a deity. It's a pretty long list, actually.

 

[Elfshadow]

But we don't own ourselves. We are merely stewards of our bodies, they belong to God. As does our life. That's why we have no right to take another's life or enslave his body.

Well seeing as I don't believe in your god, I own myself. Which grants me the rights to protect myself and purse happiness.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

I like Kokesh and hope he keeps up the good work. I am not an atheist, but I don't find anything offensive about this clip. Maybe he should put down the bong more often lol, but he's on the right track. Glad he's a leader in our movement

 

[eduardo89]

The City-states of ancient Sumer were not atheists. Neither were the Japanese whose emperor was a god, or the ancient egyptians, who believed Pharaoh was a deity. It's a pretty long list, actually.

None of whom were followers of Christ. Christianity is what brings us the belief and understanding of rights.

 

[AFPVet]

Kokesh is a leftist. He has never done anything to help win the GOP primary, only hurt. He is a pawn for the left.Why he ONLY appeals to the left when Ron runs in the GOP primary is quite baffling. Kokesh just needs to go away. I don't get the obsession with him and why people like him. His background is nothing.

I don't know his true objective; however, he lost his honorable discharge to a general under honorable conditions for being out of line on numerous occasions... when he bitched out the Major while he was in Inactive Ready Reserve, that was the last straw. I think Kokesh is a rebel who only likes the spotlight. There are plenty of honest military veterans who didn't screw up like he did... they were smart enough to raise hell AFTER they were done with IRR and had no contractual obligations. I really have very little respect for Kokesh.

 

[eduardo89]

Well seeing as I don't believe in your god, I own myself. Which grants me the rights to protect myself and purse happiness.

You are simply denying God's ownership of your life. He determined you would live, He determines when you shall die. To think otherwise is just pride.

 

[mczerone]

Legal rights? So the government grants rights? lol

Only if you let the govt define law. You can have "legal rights" without a monopoly state, and without a god.

You are arguing with me now. Therefore I must conclude that you have sentience and motive. Therefore I must conclude that you have a rational mind, and you deserve the right to exercise your rationality. If I did not recognize this right, I would be forgoing my own right to exercise my rationality and contradicting my own motive existence. Therefore if I have independent thought and you can argue/reason with me, then you have equal rights as I recognize in myself. So as long as I act without actively inhibiting your exercise of reason, I am within my rights, and you have equal right to exercise your reason without inhibiting me.

Q.E.D.

 

[mczerone]

Never heard of this "Holy Roman Republic"...?

Sorry, "Empire." Either way, my point stands that "Christians" were just as likely to worship the state as atheists were.

 

[Elfshadow]

None of whom were followers of Christ. Christianity is what brings us the belief and understanding of rights.

Ummmm...... no. The church has been one of the biggest violators of rights.

 

[mczerone]

You are simply denying God's ownership of your life. He determined you would live, He determines when you shall die. To think otherwise is just pride.

Is it not "pride" to assume that your god is all-powerful and controls these details while also denying others to think that much of life is happenstance?

 

[eduardo89]

Ummmm...... no. The church has been one of the biggest violators of rights.

The Church is men (sinners). I didn't say that the Church is what gives us the understanding of rights. I said Christianity does.

 

[TheLibertarianNationalist]

I don't wish to rant, but yes Atheism is irrational. It was Christianity that built Western Civilization and that alone. Classical Civs had great pagan traditions and brilliant philosophers but still were defeated by mere Christian missionaries. Which shows the power of the Bible and the Christ message. Europe has been in decline since it has rejected Christianity and the Christian lifestyle. America is heading down the same route. Very scary times.

 

[otherone]

Sorry, "Empire." Either way, my point stands that "Christians" were just as likely to worship the state as atheists were.

Actually, Christianity was the 'glue' that held feudalism together...."The Divine Right of Kings". Dissent was welcomed with excommunication. The Church WAS the state.

 

[eduardo89]

Is it not "pride" to assume that your god is all-powerful and controls these details while also denying others to think that much of life is happenstance?

It is pride to assume that you own yourself and to worship the created.

It is humble to accept that God have you life, that your rights are His gift and only He can take them. It is not pride to worship He who created us, instead of substituting the Creator with the created as our idol.

 

[Elfshadow]

The Church is men (sinners). I didn't say that the Church is what gives us the understanding of rights. I said Christianity does.

So, I'm wondering where in its history it has done this?

 

[eduardo89]

Actually, Christianity was the 'glue' that held feudalism together...."The Divine Right of Kings". Dissent was welcomed with excommunication. The Church WAS the state.

That is not Christianity. There is nothing in the Bible or in Christ's teachings that justify belief in a divine right to rule over other men.

 

[otherone]

Classical Civs had great pagan traditions and brilliant philosophers but still were defeated by mere Christian missionaries. Which shows the power of the Bible and the Christ message.

And the Roman war machine...but let's not let history get in the way of your 'rant'.

 

[Elfshadow]

It is pride to assume that you own yourself and to worship the created.

It is humble to accept that God have you life, that your rights are His gift and only He can take them. It is not pride to worship He who created us, instead of substituting the Creator with the created as our idol.

That is your belief. You have the right to said belief. I do not share this belief, and while it might be true, because I can not disprove it, I probably shall never belief it. It is my right not to believe as you do. For the record I don't worship anything simply because we can't prove anything exists.