Julie Borowski and a poll: Should we repeal fed minimum wage laws?

[radiofriendly]

Should we repeal all federal minimum wage laws? Poll: http://iroots.org/2013/02/18/poll-should-we-repeal-minimum-wage-laws/

Food for thought. In this political climate, if we oppose minimum wage rules, how do we go about changing over 60 years of public policy? What are some creative ways we could scale back these laws in a proactive way? Surely it’s a start to simply dare to propose the repeal of these laws?
http://iroots.org/2013/02/18/poll-should-we-repeal-minimum-wage-laws/

 

[torchbearer]

make a campaign to raise the minimum wage to $100/hr.
then have the other side argue against it.
then use their same argument to remove the minimum wage all together.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

It's a lose-lose scenario, really. My wife and I both make minimum wage. If either of us lost our job, our savings would deplete within a couple weeks. I understand the arguments against raising the minimum wage on a logic level, but it's still difficult considering how much food and housing costs.

 

[torchbearer]

It's a lose-lose scenario, really. My wife and I both make minimum wage. If either of us lost our job, our savings would deplete within a couple weeks. I understand the arguments against raising the minimum wage on a logic level, but it's still difficult considering how much food and housing costs.

would you spend your entire week working somewhere that couldn't pay your bills? (including your wife's work)
how could you maintain such employment without shelter, food, and clean attire?
the minimum wage is actually found in the market. it doesn't require edict.

 

[phill4paul]

make a campaign to raise the minimum wage to $100/hr.
then have the other side argue against it.
then use their same argument to remove the minimum wage all together.

That's what I so. If corporate pooh-bahs make $1,000 an hour then why not everyone? The government could and SHOULD do this for all of us!

 

[qh4dotcom]

In a more libertarian society what Julie said about the minimum wage would make a lot of sense.....but don't forget that we don't live in a libertarian society. Many of those "employers" voted for Obama...so if their beloved leader asks them to pay a "little more" to their employees, why wouldn't they cheerfully comply? Remember that lots of wealthy folks supported and voted for Obama even though he made it very clear that he wanted them to pay a "little more" taxes. I guess what she said somewhat applies to Republican employers and even less to the Democratic employers.

Think about it...What is going to cost employers more...Obama raising their taxes and forcing them to pay for Obamacare costs....or making employers pay an additional $1.75 per hour more to employees? Seems to me that the increase in minimum wage is peanuts compared to the tax increases and Obamacare costs.

 

[gwax23]

Federal? Why is it okay for State governments to oppress us with these types of laws. Abolish Minimum wage for all levels of government. State Governments are still government theres nothing better about them. Look At California or New York just deferring things to the states wont create more freedom.

 

[SpreadOfLiberty]

Federal? Why is it okay for State governments to oppress us with these types of laws. Abolish Minimum wage for all levels of government. State Governments are still government theres nothing better about them. Look At California or New York just deferring things to the states wont create more freedom.

Julie supports that but the context was Obama calling for a 9 dollar federal minimum wage.

 

[itshappening]

Based on a 10 hour day the president makes $180/hour

Why not give everyone what the president earns? If it's good enough for him why not everyone else?

Seems like easy work, no? There are plenty of people working harder and busting their ass for a lot less than the president.

 

[Czolgosz]

I <3 Julie.

 

[phill4paul]

Based on a 10 hour day the president makes $180/hour

Why not give everyone what the president earns? If it's good enough for him why not everyone else?

Seems like easy work, no? There are plenty of people working harder and busting their ass for a lot less than the president.

 

[Fox McCloud]

In a more libertarian society what Julie said about the minimum wage would make a lot of sense.....but don't forget that we don't live in a libertarian society. Many of those "employers" voted for Obama...so if their beloved leader asks them to pay a "little more" to their employees, why wouldn't they cheerfully comply? Remember that lots of wealthy folks supported and voted for Obama even though he made it very clear that he wanted them to pay a "little more" taxes. I guess what she said somewhat applies to Republican employers and even less to the Democratic employers.

Think about it...What is going to cost employers more...Obama raising their taxes and forcing them to pay for Obamacare costs....or making employers pay an additional $1.75 per hour more to employees? Seems to me that the increase in minimum wage is peanuts compared to the tax increases and Obamacare costs.

Because regardless of what they believe, once they start seeing it impacting their bottom line they'll cut that worker or load him up with tons and tons of tasks to do---either that (and this is common), they'll cut some/all of their benefits.

When a minimum wage doesn't cause unemployment it shifts non-monetary benefits into that wage, forces higher prices of a product that employer sells (counter-productive), or results in laying off of workers and hiring of workers who can handle that task in addition to other tasks that go along with it.

 

[EBounding]

Minimum wage laws is like the government saying you can only sell your car for no less than $3000.

 

[ShaneEnochs]

I have a serious question about this because I really don't know.

If min wage laws were repealed, what's to stop companies from hiring people at $5.00/hr? And then people who have been out of work for a year takes that job, gets off of unemployment (in which he was making the equivalent of $8.00/hr). So then he loses his car and house and becomes homeless. Then he goes to federal housing, which costs the tax payer more than his unemployment. Then we have a new housing crises. See where I'm going with this? What's to stop something like this from happening?

Or what's to stop places like McDonalds from lowering their pay down a dollar or two? It's desperate times, so people obviously won't quit. It just seems like it would totally fuck up everything.

 

[acptulsa]

Quite honestly, of all the myriad things the fedgov does to discourage hiring and encourage exporting jobs, the minimum wage is probably the least destructive. And, it's probably the most popular. If I were picking the battles, this would be way, way down the list.

That said, if you think this is the battle for you, point out that there are very, very few people making $7.55 an hour now, because the minimum wage has not kept up with inflation. And then point out that state governments can insist on a minimum wage without violating the Ninth and Tenth Amendments and with more accountability to the people. The main reason the federal minimum wage has slipped so low in terms of actual buying power is that we've all been to busy voting about gay marriage and abortion to hold Washington accountable for the state of the minimum wage. The pressures of 'democracy' simply work better on your state legislature than on Washington. Factor in the fact that states where the cost of living is low don't need the millstone around their necks, and states where the cost of living is high don't need to give employers the excuse to underpay people, and you have a winning argument.

 

[Occam's Banana]

If min wage laws were repealed, what's to stop companies from hiring people at $5.00/hr?

Nothing except the unwillingness of prospective employees to work at that particular job for that particular wage.

That's the whole point.

And then people who have been out of work for a year takes that job, gets off of unemployment (in which he was making the equivalent of $8.00/hr). So then he loses his car and house and becomes homeless. Then he goes to federal housing, which costs the tax payer more than his unemployment. Then we have a new housing crises. See where I'm going with this? What's to stop something like this from happening?

What's to stop it? Well, given the way you've contrived the hypothetical ...

The fact that the guy can continue making $8.00/hour by remaining on the unemployment roll (which he is already on, according to your scenario) is "what's to stop it."

Why would he bother taking the $5.00/hour job in that case? (And when he doesn't take it, the rest of your scenario is rendered moot.)

Or what's to stop places like McDonalds from lowering their pay down a dollar or two? It's desperate times, so people obviously won't quit. It just seems like it would totally fuck up everything.

Yeah, 'coz the way things are being done now is just so peachy ...

So we should make sure that employers hire fewer people than they otherwise might have. How is that a "solution"?

"Hey, I've got my minimum wage job ... all you other unemployed people can just go on the dole or go to hell ..."

 

[ShaneEnochs]

Nothing except the unwillingness of prospective employees to work at that particular job for that particular wage.

That's the whole point.

I know plenty of young people that would take those jobs, but they wouldn't be able to support themselves at all on those kinds of wages.

What's to stop it? Well, given the way you've contrived the hypothetical ...

The fact that the guy can continue making $8.00/hour by remaining on the unemployment roll (which he is already on, according to your scenario) is "what's to stop it."

Why would he bother taking the $5.00/hour job in that case? (And when he doesn't take it, the rest of your scenario is rendered moot.)

I've never been on unemployment, but isn't there a time limit? Wouldn't my hypothetical guy eventually be forced off of it?

Yeah, 'coz the way things are being done now is just so peachy ...

So we should make sure that employers hire fewer people than they otherwise might have. How is that a "solution"?

"Hey, I've got my minimum wage job ... all you other unemployed people can just go on the dole or go to hell ..."

I don't understand your hostility here.

Hiring a few people at a livable wage vs hiring a bunch of people at an unlivable wage. Which is the greater good? I would say the first scenario.

 

[VBRonPaulFan]

I have a serious question about this because I really don't know.

If min wage laws were repealed, what's to stop companies from hiring people at $5.00/hr? And then people who have been out of work for a year takes that job, gets off of unemployment (in which he was making the equivalent of $8.00/hr). So then he loses his car and house and becomes homeless. Then he goes to federal housing, which costs the tax payer more than his unemployment. Then we have a new housing crises. See where I'm going with this? What's to stop something like this from happening?

Or what's to stop places like McDonald's from lowering their pay down a dollar or two? It's desperate times, so people obviously won't quit. It just seems like it would totally fuck up everything.

Another serious question. What if the guy isn't worth $8/hr? He's sitting on his ass, sucking tax money from someone productive who most definitely could do more with the money than the guy sitting on his ass all day, collecting an $8/hr stipend. Do you think the guy getting the welfare check is ever going to do anything with his life if he never takes that $5/hr job, realizes it sucks, and works harder to get a better paying job?

We are quite literally paying a huge percentage of the population to sit on their ass and not re-tool their skills. It's a cyclical problem that keeps people in 'classes' and generationally depressed.

Those 'shitty' jobs that are $5/hr are there and low paying for a reason. They are meant to be short-term, temporary jobs you can use as stepping stones to move up. You should not be at a job at that rate for more than 6 months to a year if you're any good. The problem with this society now is that everyone wants instant gratification. No one wants to put their dues in to learn a skill that they can use to further themselves. They just want that good paying job now without ever really working for it. And without learning those basic skills, they're never going to get to that level.

 

[acptulsa]

The minimum wage never comes up in conversation except during a depression. It was invented during a depression. Depressions can be created, and there is reason to believe they get created specifically to drive wages down.

I don't want to see the mandate driven up. I want to see wages driven up. The way to do this is to foster an economic recovery, and the way Harding and Coolidge did that was to get the federal monkey off the back of enterprise.

This isn't the cure, it's just a symptom of the disease.

 

[cjm]

Hiring a few people at a livable wage vs hiring a bunch of people at an unlivable wage. Which is the greater good? I would say the first scenario.

You have to define "livable wage." Does a livable wage allow someone to support a 30 year fixed mortgage on a $200k house on his own? or does a livable wage allow 5 of this type of person to do the same? Does a livable wage allow for a car payment on a new Ford, a one time purchase of a 20 year old Honda, a monthly bus ticket, or bicycle?

A just wage, on the other hand, is any wage that employee and employer voluntarily agree to. Minimum wage laws interfere with the ability of free citizens to agree between themselves what's fair and just. Governments should protect their rights to negotiate their own wage rates, not interfere with those rights.