Joe Walsh: 'I'd rather have a socialist in the White House than a con man'

[RonZeplin]

Socialist Venezuelan rebel,Donaldo

Banana Republican Venezuelan socialist rebel, Hugo Chavez clone.

Donaldo

 

[106459]

And so it begins yet again....
The lesser of two evils arguments start.

On the other hand, at least with Bernie you know what you're getting and maybe the GOP will go back to actually opposing socialism instead of embracing it like they do now with Trump.

And so it begins yet again.... the lesser of two evils argument.

You know, I started to respond in-depth with some perspective, but it started to become clear that that's only going to introduce arguments ad-nauseum. To boil it down to the brass tax, from your quote, this is where you're arguing from "evil = evil, Trump = evil, Bernie = evil, Trump = Bernie". I'm not going to debate that at-length.

So, if Bernie were to be elected: out of all the infinite permutations of the GOP party response: what makes yours right? It seems far more likely to me that socialism just got America's rubber stamp.

All the GOP has to do is be "a little less socialist", and the Democrats get to be a little more socialist, and so the ball keeps rolling. Just like it's done the previous 44 times. I'm not going to hold my breath for this magical 45th time.

So. I'll just quote AF:

Comrade Bernie is not a socialist, he is an authoritarian Marxist, a commie from the old school, a pro Soviet Leninist.

He has stated numerous times that he intends to kill my industry, prosecute me personally as a climate criminal, and sue my industry into nothingness.

He has legions of Bolshevik/Jacobinite followers that are on record advocating death camps and genocide.

I, and the remaining productive white class of America, are the targets of that genocide.

Trump has lowered my taxes, reduced workplace regulations and reduced regulatory fatwas that directly affect me.

Those are the facts as of February 2020.

I will be supporting Trump in the fall, barring drastic changes in those facts.

Any sane person, especially any sane white person, should be doing the same.

Anything to the contrary is just static, background noise and smoke.

Disregard it.

 

[106459]

Banana Republican Venezuelan socialist rebel, Hugo Chavez clone.

Donaldo

Congratulations. You could have replied to my analysis on your "Trump is a socialist video", but instead you decide to post some low intellect Trump = Chavez meme. Well. That in and of itself speaks volumes, and tells me everything I need to know.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

So called "con man" narrative is getting bit out of hand ever since GOA leaders used words like "fraud" and Coulter invoked "scam".
Even on this forum that mostly sticks to civil language, there have been used words like "dumpf", "drunkard monkey" etc even by some MAGA supporters in the heat of debates. Best to avoid such words for our national leaders that tend to shut debate. There are plenty of other words to critcize policies of GOPA wing and political scams of globalist neocons with deep pockets.

 

[106459]

We're not going to get rid of Socialism by electing more "Donald Trumps." People like him have no intention of shrinking the size and scope of the federal government, and just because they take a longer time to bring us towards a full socialist society doesn't make them better than others who would step on the pedal to it. They're both heading in the same direction, just at different speeds.

Trump lowering my taxes isn't shrinking the government? Weird world. I'll take my chances that paying less money to the government results in a better future for me.

So, by your own post you're saying Bernie is worse than Trump. But because Trump isn't everything you wanted, we might as well elect Bernie? So we should make things worse then?

That's a silly concept. Because things aren't going the way we want, we have to do this horrible thing. And once we do this horrible thing in this way, then this good thing will have to happen in this way. That's a ridiculous chain of causality, kind of reminds me of something.​

 

[Theocrat]

Tax Rates Mean Nothing if Trump Wants to Destroy the Dollar

So, I watched the video. Let me break it down:

First 5 minutes / secret#1:
Trump's "the act / personal income tax legislation":
-Trump changed CPI. Government assumes inflation is lower, less tax bracket adjustment. You get higher inflation raises, less tax bracket matching, end up paying more taxes.
-Social security: again, because government assumes less inflation .. social security is giving you less money. (less money returned to you).

Secret#2:
9:30: "IF Bernie Sanders spends like a drunken sailor"
-WTF man, this entire section had 0 point. In exactly what twisted fuckery of a world here is Trump campaigning for Feel the Bern 2020? This entire dialogue is built on a stupid premise and makes no sense.

Secret#3:
-There is no secret in this entire section. The dude goes off on a tangent about Hazlett's book (which is a great book), and it has nothing to do with Trump.
--In fact, his big secret was that "the rich don't hoard money, they invest it", meaning it goes to productive enterprise (Google, Apple, Tesla).
...So, why didn't the dude talk about how Trump's act cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%? Oh, I guess that wouldn't fund his YouTube channel, would it?

So, to be blunt: that video was stupid.

Again, I can at least accept the premise of people arguing that Trump is a con man. To try to Argue that "Trump = Bernie" is stupid.

You know what the funniest part of this video was? I love that Trump found an underhanded way to cut Social Security. You know, the program that is destined for bankruptcy and that I'll never see a penny from, because it's doomed? Good. Let Social Security get bad press, that it's worthless, and have the word spread that these government programs suck.

The "con man" and any false promises of further tax cuts not happening, as opposed to Socialist Sandy getting his 90% tax rate is still looking pretty dang good right now.

You know what's stupid? Someone defending a person who calls for cuts to interest rates from the Federal Reserve, which increases inflation even more. Trump has attacked the Fed, not for its QE utilizations, but because they aren't willing to drive interest rates even lower than they are now.

 

[106459]

So called "con man" narrative is getting bit out of hand ever since GOA leaders used words like "fraud" and Coulter invoked "scam".
Even on this forum that mostly sticks to civil language, there have been used words like "dumpf", "drunkard monkey" etc even by some MAGA supporters in the heat of debates. Best to avoid such words for our national leaders that tend to shut debate. There are plenty of other words to critcize policies of GOPA wing and political scams of globalist neocons with deep pockets.

Thanks e_d. I'd agree. Words have meaning, and when someone wants to set the debate up as "Trump is a 100% fraud who is worse than Bernie Sanders" doesn't give either side very much room in their positions, and to be frank, forces me into a position of having to defend Trump rather than criticize any of his problematic positions.

 

[106459]

You know what's stupid? Someone defending a person who calls for cuts to interest rates from the Federal Reserve, which increases inflation even more. Trump has attacked the Fed, not for its QE utilizations, but because they aren't willing to drive interest rates even lower than they are now.

Nope. You wanted me to defend Trump equal to not being like Bernie Sanders, which I have. Read my previous post 47. The argument of this thread has been a failure, and that's not my fault. I'm plenty open to debate of critique of fed policy.

 

[Theocrat]

"Pay No Attention to the Man Behind the Red Curtain"

Nope. You wanted me to defend Trump equal to not being like Bernie Sanders, which I have. Read my previous post 45. The argument of this thread has been a failure, and that's not my fault. I'm plenty open to debate of critique of fed policy.

Right, because you don't want to deal with root causes and have to face the fact that Trump's Socialst, monetary policy is destructive to his fiscal policies.

 

[106459]

Right, because you don't want to deal with root causes and have to face the fact that Trump's Socialst, monetary policy is destructive to his fiscal policies.

Nope. That's a thread derail. Feel free to start that thread, and there's a good chance I'll reply.

You don't want to deal with the root causes. In the premise of this thread, you'd rather say "It's lost, it's over. Elect Sanders, the worst socialist we have to offer". Thanks for giving the Democrats everything they wanted. Good strategy.

 

[Warlord]

LOL [MENTION=4634]Theocrat[/MENTION]

I have long given up complaining about inflation/zero percent interest rates. It's time to profit from this nonsense.

Check out the Economy and Markets subforum where we discuss gold, markets and more:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?544153-Gold-1800

 

[Theocrat]

Both Candidates Are Holding a Hammer and Sickle

Nope. That's a thread derail. Feel free to start that thread, and there's a good chance I'll reply.

You don't want to deal with the root causes. In the premise of this thread, you'd rather say "It's lost, it's over. Elect Sanders, the worst socialist we have to offer". Thanks for giving the Democrats everything they wanted. Good strategy.

No, actually, it's not a derailment because the point is that Joe Walsh has missed the point entirely. It's not a Socialist versus a con man; it's a Socialist versus a Socialist. Period. The video that was posted at least illustrated how Trump's tax policies did nothing to strengthen the purchasing power of the Dollar. But, of course, you missed that point because you just wanted to go on an apologetic rant for Trump.

Also, I didn't advocate electing Sanders, and I don't believe things are lost. My belief is that whether we elect Trump or a Democrat, we're stuck with Socialism moving forward. Trump is just driving us off the cliff by "following the Speed Limit," whereas someone like Sanders would drive like we're on the Autobahn.

 

[Theocrat]

He's Still in Bed with the Fed

LOL [MENTION=4634]Theocrat[/MENTION]

I have long given up complaining about inflation/zero percent interest rates. It's time to profit from this nonsense.

Check out the Economy and Markets subforum where we discuss gold, markets and more:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?544153-Gold-1800

I'm all for buying gold, silver, etc. and investing in industries all over the world. My point is that Trump isn't interested in exposing and curtailing what the Federal Reserve is doing to our money supply, even by a simple audit.

 

[Warlord]

I'm all for buying gold, silver, etc. and investing in industries all over the world. My point is that Trump isn't interested in exposing and curtailing what the Federal Reserve is doing to our money supply, even by a simple audit.

It's like deficit spending and the debt. Republicans will go back to complaining about it once they're out of office!

 

[106459]

No, actually, it's not a derailment because the point is that Joe Walsh has missed the point entirely. It's not a Socialist versus a con man; it's a Socialist versus a Socialist. Period. The video that was posted at least illustrated how Trump's tax policies did nothing to strengthen the purchasing power of the Dollar. But, of course, you missed that point because you just wanted to go on an apologetic rant for Trump.

Also, I didn't advocate electing Sanders, and I don't believe things are lost. My belief is that whether we elect Trump or a Democrat, we're stuck with Socialism moving forward. Trump is just driving us off the cliff by "following the Speed Limit," whereas someone like Sanders would drive like we're on the Autobahn.

To be honest: I don't want to debate in bad faith. I'll admit I'm not the most friendly debater. As e_d alluded to, I'd like to think that by nature of being on this forum we're at least 50%+ similar, though reading through threads would give you the opposite idea.

I think it's kind of silly that we've gotten to post# 52, before it comes out "Joe Walsh has missed the point entirely", and that now we're talking "It's not a Socialist versus a con man" -- "it's a Socialist versus a Socialist". I still see where my point & quote of AF stands: Trump has lowered taxes and cut regulations.

If we're going to go off the cliff in either case, I'd rather do it at 55mph than 180mph, while collecting my tax cuts along the way. My basic point in this whole thread is that Joe Walsh is wrong, and his statement is atrocious at the end of the day.

In the video, I don't recall where the specific issue of "Trump's tax policies did nothing to strengthen the purchasing power of the Dollar" was raised. That sounds like a secondhand abstraction, just like my pointing out that Trump actually introduced a cut to Social Security. That would have been nice to point out. To move on: in my mind, it sound like a non-argument is being presented again:

-Under either Trump, or Bernie, the dollar will continue to be inflated away
-Under Trump, at least I get more of those inflated dollars back with his tax cut. And, I don't have to give away 90% of my inflated dollars like I do with Bernie.​

So, yeah. Full disclaimer: I didn't vote at all in 2016; I'm voting Trump 2020. Why? Not because I think he's the greatest President ever to exist. Because he lowered taxes. He's changed the conversation from Globalist to Nationalist. He's called out the media as fake. And in essentially every other topic of debate: "He is more of the same". Better than getting worse. And to not re-elect him has this direct consequence: The media, irrespective of anyone's opinion, will drone that they knew Trump was evil and that the American people would never re-elect someone so evil. No; I fully denounce their narrative, and the Democratic party needs to be smashed to pieces.

So, I look forward to the media crying in 2020. I'm naively optimistic that Trump will continue to lower taxes, cut regulations, and keep the American genocidists at bay. Then in 2024, we can elect another conservative who can say "hey - Trump had some good ideas on this, here are some other good ones". Seems better than electing Bernie Sanders in 2020, and then in 2024 we can have everything saying "fucking damn it!! Can we get fucking Trump back?"

You're free to argue the pitfalls of all the hypotheticals, and propose that there are better/more efficient methods, but I've yet to be convinced. The existence of SouthPark's "giant douche vs turd sandwich" having notoriety is a testament to the Libertarian's and every other 3rd party's ineffectiveness.

 

[Anti Globalist]

Is Joe Walsh trying to argue that he'd rather have a socialist in the WH because at least Sanders is honest about what he wants to do?

 

[106459]

Is Joe Walsh trying to argue that he'd rather have a socialist in the WH because at least Sanders is honest about what he wants to do?

Well, I went back and read the TheHill.com article, as well as the WaPo Op-Ed they referenced. Here are the quotes I found of interest:

Former presidential candidate Joe Walsh criticized fellow Republicans who labeled themselves as “never Trump” for considering a vote for President Trump if Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) is the Democratic 2020 nominee.

Walsh, a former Illinois congressman, wrote in a Washington Post op-ed Tuesday that he’d “rather have a socialist in the White House than a con man.”

"Some of my Republican and ex-Republican brethren have started implying that what never-Trump actually meant was something more like: fingers-crossed-I-really-really-hope-not-Trump-but-I-guess-sometimes-Trump if Democrats wind up nominating a self-described democratic socialist," he wrote. "But that’s not how this works."

“If it were up to me, Sanders isn’t the guy I’d put in charge,” he wrote. “But when I finally came around to saying, ‘never Trump,’ I meant it.”

Walsh, however, said those who designated themselves as “never Trump” should “suck it up and support his Democratic opponent, no matter who that is,” promising to campaign for Sanders if he is the nominee.

“Lots of politicians stink, and people hold their noses and vote for them, anyway,” he wrote. “But if you’ve already gone on record as a never-Trumper, and now you’re saying that you’ll vote for Trump because you don’t like the alternative, you’re not holding your nose, you’re inhaling deeply.”

I hate to break it to you, but if you’re really never-Trump, then you know there’s no except-if-he’s-a-socialist footnote. There’s no but-she’s-way-too-professor-ish clause. Nothing in the fine print says the only acceptable Democratic alternative is another arrogant billionaire. I thought this was understood.

In 2016, sadly, I supported Trump. I freely admit that I’m a second-wave never-Trumper. But once I got here, it was always my plan to stay. Because, for me, the ways in which Trump threatens this country go beyond left-right ideology. He lies constantly. He grants pardons to toadies. He conflates America’s financial interests with his own. He uses his bully pulpit to air a never-ending, year-round list of Festivus grievances.

He surrounds himself with lackeys and purges staff who won’t do his bidding. He’s an authoritarian who once said, with a straight face, “I have an Article II, where I have the right to do whatever I want.” That’s a bigger threat to America than free college, a $15-per-hour minimum wage and Glass-Steagall part deux. Yes, I’m a fiscal conservative who still worries about the national debt. But not as much as I worry about Trump wrecking my country.

In response to you, anti globalist, nope. It doesn't look like that. Because he said "Never Trump", he is now obligated to vote for virtually anyone else whose last name is not Trump, Satan included. The article is a steaming pile of partisan shit.

To be honest, I'm really tired of how Trump has been denounced as the absolute evil and greatest crisis of our lifetime, yet these appear to be the paraded arguments of how right they are. These arguments are pathetically weak. Try again. Because Joe Walsh is making the argument that Trump threw out Article II, now we need to elect Bernie Sanders, throw out Article II, and every other piece of the Constitution with it. Ridiculous.

So...that's an argumentative response. Oh well; when that's the substance I have to work with .. I suppose I can't be bothered with the gymnastics to make it nice.

 

[RonZeplin]

Secret #1, Trump raised your taxes

Congratulations. You could have replied to my analysis on your "Trump is a socialist video", but instead you decide to post some low intellect Trump = Chavez meme. Well. That in and of itself speaks volumes, and tells me everything I need to know.

Guess that you missed my post above, TRUMP RAISED YOUR TAXES !!! No response, in deep denial?

Socialist Totalitarian Twins Donald & Bernie.



Secret #1 - Trump raised your taxes...

 

[106459]

Guess that you missed my post above, TRUMP RAISED YOUR TAXES !!! No response, in deep denial?

Haha. I'll make my post nice. Read my post, #32. I watched your 17 minute video, and the only point raised directly to Trump was that he changed the CPI calculation.

From that video's graph, he changed CPI inflation from reading as about 130, to become 125, or misrepresenting inflation by about 8.3%. Important to note: It was stated that US inflation was 2.0% in 2019. So if we adjust that to use the true CPI metric, inflation should be ... 2.16% inflation.

-In real terms, if I made $60,000, then .0083%, $498, was pretended like it didn't happen.
-There is this handy Trump tax benefit calculator here: https://taxfoundation.org/tax-calculator/
-So, assuming I make $60,000, single, no dependents, the tax cut is $1,491.75.​

$1,491.75 minus 498 equals $993.75 dollars. So... you're saying Trump decreased by taxes by $993.75 this year? Anything I missed?

 

[Warlord]

Changing the inflation measure is an old trick. They also did it to Social security according to the video and the purchasing power lost. By the time you get your check it will be worthless