Joe Biden: Illegal Immigrants Are 'Already Americans'

[gusbaker]

I dont think its fair to call illegals leeches, doesn't illegal mean they can't get government benefits? Im not supporting amnesty, but lets watch out about classifying people into a group.

Illegals get benefits all the time. Hospitals are madated to treat them, public schools are mandated to admit them, they find ways to get welfare and numerous other benefits, look up "Sanctuary Cities", if someone can call legal citizens who get govt benefits leeches why can't someone use it to describe illegal aliens who do the same?

 

[PRB]

You didn't answer my question, how does wanting to enforce border laws make me or anyone else racist?

border laws are inherently racist since they make an arbitrary distinction as to who can come into the country and be treated equally as an American.

 

[gusbaker]

border laws are inherently racist since they make an arbitrary distinction as to who can come into the country and be treated equally as an American.

That would apply to all races, so how does race have anything to do with it, they may refuse a white German along with a black man from Eithopia or an Arab from Iraq. "American" is not a race, it's a nationality, you might be able to call it Nationalism but I don't even think that would apply here, you should watch this clip below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J6OnyxnBT8

 

[Carson]

You didn't answer my question, how does wanting to enforce border laws make me or anyone else racist?

Kind of weird the way the race card is played, isn't it?

They are the ones playing the illegal aliens into the hands of the criminals in the government and business.

 

[PRB]

That would apply to all races, so how does race have anything to do with it, they may refuse a white German along with a black man from Eithopia or an Arab from Iraq. "American" is not a race, it's a nationality, you might be able to call it Nationalism but I don't even think that would apply here, you should watch this clip below.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J6OnyxnBT8

American is not a race, but 80% of Americans are white. So while not all whites are American and not all Americans are white, there's a great overlap for people living in this country. if you were to racially profile who are the likely offenders, you'd save a lot of time if you started with non-whites, and non-blacks.

 

[Carson]

border laws are inherently racist since they make an arbitrary distinction as to who can come into the country and be treated equally as an American.

Actually they seemed fairer.

I remember when most of the people I worked with came here legally with some sort of green card or work visa. I worked with people from all over the world then.

I grew up mostly in San Diego. It was a military town so I was bummed out when people moved away while we were in school. It was still a bummer when I got older and it was co-workers leaving. Some times they renewed their visa's. Other times they decided to return home. I learned a lot from them. I remember thinking I hoped they took a little bit of the way we did things back home.

Now I think I'd be ashamed.

 

[Deborah K]

Why is he wrong unless you're racist or statist and thinks the government gets to decide who is illegal and American?

He's wrong because his words are a slap in the face to all immigrants who followed our immigration laws and are going through the proper channels, while these lawbreakers he's referring to are going to get to cut in front of the line.

 

[Deborah K]

I dont think its fair to call illegals leeches, doesn't illegal mean they can't get government benefits? Im not supporting amnesty, but lets watch out about classifying people into a group.

Illegals can open bank accounts, get driver's licenses, free school tuition, and in a 'sanctuary city', the cops can't even ask them if they are citizens of the U.S. And yes, they can also get welfare.

Edit: Just noticed most of this was already mentioned. Sorry.

 

[PRB]

Illegals can open bank accounts, get driver's licenses, free school tuition, and in a 'sanctuary city', the cops can't even ask them if they are citizens of the U.S. And yes, they can also get welfare.

Edit: Just noticed most of this was already mentioned. Sorry.

Foreigners can also open bank accounts, right? I mean, you either use a SSN or a foreign passport, don't you?

 

[PRB]

He's wrong because his words are a slap in the face to all immigrants who followed our immigration laws and are going through the proper channels, while these lawbreakers he's referring to are going to get to cut in front of the line.

and what is the non-racist point of immigration and border laws that people are forced to follow? What happened to "only follow laws which are just"?

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Illegals can open bank accounts, get driver's licenses, free school tuition, and in a 'sanctuary city', the cops can't even ask them if they are citizens of the U.S. And yes, they can also get welfare.

Edit: Just noticed most of this was already mentioned. Sorry.

Why should a cop be able to ask anyone if they are a citizen?

Seems it would be an all encompassing grant to stop anyone they so choose please to check papers, as well as searching the contents of their pockets. Not that that isn't happening already.

And it seems to me, those in a poorer neighborhood, having pigmentation of a certain kind, are more likely to be stopped and arbitrarily harassed.

What is the benefit of all this? Are they taking "our" jobs or what? Is it protectionist in nature, racist in nature, nationalistic in nature, ignorant in nature, or simply because you are [rightfully] concerned at the collectivist ideologies this country faces as well as are concerned with the consequence thereof, handouts?

In any case, I find it unconscionable to grant the police more power when they are acting often well outside the law already.

 

[puppetmaster]

"Racist" and "statist", boy if you'd just said "isolantionist" you'd have all the ignorant "ists" in there that people use when they can't think of anything intelligent to say. Well if having a border and having border laws makes me "racist and statist" sign me up for both.

you are correct but you will find a few that will disagree but dont let them get ya down.

Most here agree that there has to be some kind of control if we truly love what little liberties we still have.

 

[puppetmaster]

Why should a cop be able to ask anyone if they are a citizen?

Seems it would be an all encompassing grant to stop anyone they so choose please to check papers, as well as searching the contents of their pockets. Not that that isn't happening already.

And it seems to me, those in a poorer neighborhood, having pigmentation of a certain kind, are more likely to be stopped and arbitrarily harassed.

What is the benefit of all this? Are they taking "our" jobs or what? Is it protectionist in nature, racist in nature, nationalistic in nature, ignorant in nature, or simply because you are [rightfully] concerned at the collectivist ideologies this country faces as well as are concerned with the consequence thereof, handouts?

In any case, I find it unconscionable to grant the police more power when they are already acting often well outside the law already.

when/if they break the law for one.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

when/if they break the law for one.

The 'law' meaning what? What is statutorily codified by any one of countless bureaucracies? What is agreed upon by the majority? What is traditional?

And what does, "for one," mean?

What's your second point, if not breaking the law? I ask this seriously: What is outside of your, "for one"? A traffic stop? Walking? Having a particular pigmentation?

What is, "for two"?

 

[DamianTV]

Could someone explain to me how a Free Market Non Govt intervention solution could either work or fail?

 

[alucard13mm]

Sometimes I think some people here want USA to lose its sovereignty and ignore our borders ... Just to stick it to the man. Even though that is exactly what the man wants you to do.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Sometimes I think people are rather unread and unprincipled.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

It's amazing how many people on here justify immigration laws by saying "it's the law" "they are law breakers" "the government cannot have discretion and needs to enforce the law", and then go on to criticize law enforcement for arresting people for victimless crimes and not using discretion.

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Could someone explain to me how a Free Market Non Govt intervention solution could either work or fail?

It all depends on what "work" and "fail" mean to you.

It's somewhat of a complex scenario to write out.

End the legal tender laws. End the regulatory system. Let wages rise and fall with the demand of said labor. End the IRS. Encourage competition.

The products here afforded more cheaply through the various means of a free market, including the products afforded more cheaply by way of the sun, soil richness, or other natural occurrence, are in no way a hindrance to individual wealth.

First, people are inherently endowed with the right to move freely. You own your body, and your actions/movements are your right to do so long as no one else is legitimately transgressed against.

The products/services becoming cheaper are not an ill effect thrust upon society. It is a positive for society or rather, as I care, to the individual. The common misconception is looking at things through a cost to the producer's lens rather than looking at things through a benefit to the consumer's.

Free trade promotes job creation, where it is warranted. Government protectionism promotes moral hazard and waste. They are not wise enough to dictate this or that to an infinitely variable economy. They cause harm (to all, though more importantly to those who wish to conduct their business as they see fit).

A[n actual] market for labor and a repealing of the legal tender laws would do the average worker much good. This is problems compounding problems.

 

[Teenager For Ron Paul]

I happen to agree that letting people try to make a living here even if they're illegal is a good thing, in principle. Then again, amnesty is not actually going to benefit overall liberty in the US, so I generally oppose it.