Jesse Ventura has an entire chapter on RON PAUL in his new book

[KingNothing]

I shall kindly refer to the post just above yours as it preemptively responded to your post better than I ever could.

Your post was perfect, but it wasn't difficult to see where the other side would take it. That's not to say that folks in this movement are just politicizing the issue. I don't think that's true. I think there's a very sincere anti-Corporate, populist sentiment at the heart of the Ron Paul movement. Most of the time that is fine, appropriate and completely justified. But in a meta-sense, it isn't. Your paraphrasing of Paul shows why. Corporations are comprised of people, and those people must have rights and accountability under the law. The anti-corporate sentiment should only be directed at those run by individuals who cheat, lie and steal. And even then, the focus should be on the people who committed the crimes, not necessarily the abstract entity -or the idea of the entity- that the criminals are associated with. Hating collections of people who work together to turn a profit, in general, because Ken Lay is an asshole seems odd... no?

As an aside, Paul really is a master of language. It's difficult to demagogue while perfectly maintaining logic and principle, but he always manages to pull it off. That skill is one of the most important things that we can learn from him.

 

[Slacker]

Found this one too: Jesse, "ALL the Ron Paul people and I'm one of them... vote for Gary Johnson, he's a libertarian, all the independents, vote for Gary John and send shock waves".

Christ, I never knew Ventura was such a lefty.

 

[angelatc]

People are individuals. Not groups. Rights remain with the individual.

People don't lose their rights when they join groups, and thus have the right to speak in groups - that's always been the case in America. The freedom to assemble. Like I said, all 9 justices agreed with me.

Corporate speech is no different than PAC speech, or Party speech, or Union speech. I have no use for people who think that deciding which groups of people aren't entitled to speak freely is an ok for government to do.

 

[Carehn]

the US government makes trillions out of tax payers.... it all goes to crony corporation not to tax payers that made the money

If we need bullet trains then let the market provide them. i live in a railroad town hub... And know a lot of people that work for UP. The rails in this country are one of the most regulated industries we have.

Are lack of pullet trains has nothing to do with the lack of government planning and everything to do with "GOVERNMENT PLANING"

Simply having the government take from me to build bullet trains will not improve anything, it will only be less of a wast then most of the investments they make.

And who is anyone to decide that what this country needs more than anything at all is bullet trains. Why not get the F&*K out of the way and let the people decide for themselfs what it is they need?

 

[Carlybee]

What is leftist about being anti-corporatist? Lefties are anti-capitalists. Ron Paul is anti-corporatist. Obama and Romney are both corporatist. There is a difference between capitalism and corporatism. Corporations are run by people but they are entities formed to shield the people running them from certain liabilities. People don't have those protections...or I should say individuals.

 

[angelatc]

Your post was perfect, but it wasn't difficult to see where the other side would take it. That's not to say that folks in this movement are just politicizing the issue. I don't think that's true. I think there's a very sincere anti-Corporate, populist sentiment at the heart of the Ron Paul movement. Most of the time that is fine, appropriate and completely justified. But in a meta-sense, it isn't. Your paraphrasing of Paul shows why. Corporations are comprised of people, and those people must have rights and accountability under the law. The anti-corporate sentiment should only be directed at those run by individuals who cheat, lie and steal. And even then, the focus should be on the people who committed the crimes, not necessarily the abstract entity -or the idea of the entity- that the criminals are associated with. Hating collections of people who work together to turn a profit, in general, because Ken Lay is an asshole seems odd... no?

As an aside, Paul really is a master of language. It's difficult to demagogue while perfectly maintaining logic and principle, but he always manages to pull it off. That skill is one of the most important things that we can learn from him.

When children are spoiled, I don't blame the children. I blame the parents. There's no doubt that the corporations are spoiled, but I blame the government.

 

[Carehn]

Christ, I never knew Ventura was such a lefty.

He has many contradictions but is always open for new ideas and I believe him to be genuine. He simply does not understand that money cannot be taken out of politics.

 

[angelatc]

What is leftist about being anti-corporatist? Lefties are anti-capitalists. Ron Paul is anti-corporatist. Obama and Romney are both corporatist. There is a difference between capitalism and corporatism. Corporations are run by people but they are entities formed to shield the people running them from certain liabilities. People don't have those protections...or I should say individuals.

Individuals do indeed get to protections, when they form LLCs.

So you honestly think that Elwar should lose everything he owns because a 97 year old woman slipped in fell in his business.

And let's pretend that Elwar's parents had invested in his business, even though they live in another state and have never actually been to his store. Because Elwar is young, he has no assets. So by all means, lets let the lawyers sue his parents. too. Yes, they laoned him $5000, but are going to lose $1 million, because there was no corporate protection in place.

Or ..... your retirement account holds stock in XYZ company. An employee there steals a company truck, drives drunk, and smashes into a school bus. You really think it's ok for the lawyers to come after your assets.

Great plan to keep people from investing.....


Nothing leftist about that. <snark>

Ron Paul is not anti-corporatist corporation. He's anti-government corruption.

 

[Carlybee]

When the government is shadow ruled by corporatist the blame falls in both corners...that being said its true you cant rape the willing.

 

[Carlybee]

So you honestly think that Elwar should lose everything he owns because a 97 year old woman slipped in fell in his business. Nothing leftist about that. <snark>

No I think he should have liability insurance. /countersnark

 

[Carehn]

No I think he should have liability insurance. /countersnark

This really is a savage countersnark.

 

[donnay]

Yeah, because we definitely the government to build need high speed trains, like Jesse Ventura did, to help the poor people.

And the "corporations aren't people" argument revolts me. Corporations are indeed groups of people, and all 9 justices agreed that groups of people have free speech rights. It was the liberals that voted to quash their rights. The people crying that corporations aren't people are members of the ignorant sheeple.

And Stephanie Miller is, and always has been, a lying PPOS. (That first P is for progressive.)

You must be a Rush Limbaugh listener? He has been touting those lines for years--"If it weren't for the corporations people would not have jobs..."



US CODE: Title 28,3002. Definitions (archived here)

(15) "United States" means —
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.

http://reality-bytes.hubpages.com/hub/The-Corporation-Of-The-United-States-Of-America


The Justices are corporately controlled too, quit fooling yourself.

 

[angelatc]

So because I disagree with you and think the concept that 'corporations are people' is downright absurd i'm 'an ignorant sheeple'?

Obviously, corporations employ people, and are directed by people. Doesn't make them 'people'.

Corporations are people who join together for a common purpose. They have a right to assemble, and their right to speak does not end when the join that group. Like I keep saying, a 9 SCOTUS judges agreed with me.

"Corporatiosn aren't people!!!" is just the left being the left - stupid talking points for stupid, uneducated people.

 

[angelatc]

No I think he should have liability insurance. /countersnark

Spoken like someone who has never actually tried to run a business. Sigh.

What if his insurance caps at $2 million, and she gets awarded $100 million by a sympathetic Florida jury? How about the rest of the points?

I have an internet friend who moved here from Paraguay or Uraguay. She left, because the courts were coming after her for money a distant in-law relative owed. That's how their legal system is set up. If there is a family line between you and a debtor, they can and will come after you. In her case, she had never met this relative - he was actually her husband's cousin something-removed. But she is a teacher, has a good income, and had absolutely no protection from the actions of family she didn't know existed.

What a great plan! The CEO, responsible for millions of job, is personally liable for the actions of each and every one of his employees. No reason to think that corporations would leave the country over that.

 

[Carlybee]

Individuals do indeed get to protections, when they form LLCs.

So you honestly think that Elwar should lose everything he owns because a 97 year old woman slipped in fell in his business.

And let's pretend that Elwar's parents had invested in his business, even though they live in another state and have never actually been to his store. Because Elwar is young, he has no assets. So by all means, lets let the lawyers sue his parents. too. Yes, they laoned him $5000, but are going to lose $1 million, because there was no corporate protection in place.

Or ..... your retirement account holds stock in XYZ company. An employee there steals a company truck, drives drunk, and smashes into a school bus. You really think it's ok for the lawyers to come after your assets.

Great plan to keep people from investing.....


Nothing leftist about that. <snark>

Ron Paul is not anti-corporatist. He's anti-government corruption.

Bull...I've heard him speak out on Corporatism many times. And you are picking nits.

 

[Carlybee]

What if his insurance caps at #2 million, and she gets awarded $100 million? How about the rest of the points?

At that point your beef is with the legal system. Its called tort reform.

 

[donnay]

People don't lose their rights when they join groups, and thus have the right to speak in groups - that's always been the case in America. The freedom to assemble. Like I said, all 9 justices agreed with me.

Corporate speech is no different than PAC speech, or Party speech, or Union speech. I have no use for people who think that deciding which groups of people aren't entitled to speak freely is an ok for government to do.

Wouldn't that be "group think?" Most senators and congressmen are bought and pay for by the very corporations you defend.


You ought to read Smedley D. Butler-- War is a Racket.

 

[Carlybee]

Corporations are people who join together for a common purpose. They have a right to assemble, and their right to speak does not end when the join that group. Like I keep saying, a 9 SCOTUS judges agreed with me.

"Corporatiosn aren't people!!!" is just the left being the left - stupid talking points for stupid, uneducated people.

Right to assemble sounds kind of leftist.

 

[angelatc]

This really is a savage countersnark.

No, it's a weak position. That's why the rest of the post went untouched.

She doesn't want to admit it here in these forums, but she's lobbying for government restriction of free speech to certain groups. Nothing Ron Paul-ish about that.

 

[angelatc]

Right to assemble sounds kind of leftist.

So you are indeed a leftist?

It is the 4 leftist judges that wanted to suspend that right.

This is not a Ron Paul position. This is a dangerous, ignorant position.