Jack Hunter: "On Glenn Beck and the Liberty Movement"

[cajuncocoa]

Well you seem to be a more hardcore type based on what I read here: we are currently involved in three main projects here locally: voter registration, canvassing for Mark Sanford, and fundraising. Additionally, we are looking for new precinct committee persons to fill some vacant slots. Would you be one of the first in line to sign up for those? Are you willing to work alongside someone who may not see eye to eye with you on all the issues?

If I'm working for a candidate I can trust and believe in (see: Ron Paul), I would and I have. FYI, Mark Sanford would not be that candidate (not sure his ex-wife could trust him, why should I?)

 

[Brett85]

Beck has said that he supports withdrawing from Afghanistan and closing down foreign bases all around the world, so it's not like he's some kind of warmongering neo-conservative. He's basically a non interventionist who makes an exception for Israel. That still isn't acceptable to some people here, but it seems to me like a limited interventionist like Beck is better than the unlimited interventionists who run the GOP today.

 

[Todd]

My impression of Beck from Wednesday, was that he is genuinely interested in libertarianism, but does have questions about certain aspects–as do probably most Americans

Wait, Doesn't Beck call himself a "Libertarian?

I'm not sure I follow his logic here. If Beck is going to call himself a Libertarian and wear it as a badge as a someone who calls themselves a progressive or conservative would, why does he have "questions" about something he has decided to follow?

 

[dinosaur]

if he hasn't completely undermined and co-opted our message before then that is

That's the thing. I do take Beck seriously. The pied piper thinks that all he has to do is play our tune and we will follow him. We hope that if the pied piper plays our tune, then people will be inspired by the music and follow it. The pied piper wouldn't still be in the business that he is in if people were following the music instead of him. It is a numbers game after all.

 

[sailingaway]

Everyone who has a thought about Glenn beck seems to want to start a new thread on it and we just don't need that many. All points of view are welcome but not so many threads. Even merged there are four or five current ones

 

[dinosaur]

Beck has said that he supports withdrawing from Afghanistan and closing down foreign bases all around the world, so it's not like he's some kind of warmongering neo-conservative. He's basically a non interventionist who makes an exception for Israel. That still isn't acceptable to some people here, but it seems to me like a limited interventionist like Beck is better than the unlimited interventionists who run the GOP today.

It isn't his stance on the issues. It is who he will support at the end of the day.

 

[cajuncocoa]

Beck has said that he supports withdrawing from Afghanistan and closing down foreign bases all around the world, so it's not like he's some kind of warmongering neo-conservative. He's basically a non interventionist who makes an exception for Israel. That still isn't acceptable to some people here, but it seems to me like a limited interventionist like Beck is better than the unlimited interventionists who run the GOP today.

We can make that exception for Israel when they become the 51st state. How's that?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Why is Jack talking about 'his impressions from Wednesday' if he knows Beck well enough that he ghosted a BOOK for him 'Conscience of a Libertarian'? Or was that a joke?

I certainly hope mac_hine is joking!! I almost ruined my keyboard when I read that! Nothing turns up on Google about it (except for another book by the same name written by Wayne Allyn Root)

You guys had me confused for a minute. Interestingly enough, I'd guess that WAR is the type of Libertarian that Beck would get behind wholeheartedly.

 

[TheGrinch]

Beck has said that he supports withdrawing from Afghanistan and closing down foreign bases all around the world, so it's not like he's some kind of warmongering neo-conservative. He's basically a non interventionist who makes an exception for Israel. That still isn't acceptable to some people here, but it seems to me like a limited interventionist like Beck is better than the unlimited interventionists who run the GOP today.

You lost me right there....

People would welcome Beck with open arms if we thought he was even the least bit genuine, but what appears more likely is he's, well of course interested in catering ($$) to a growing audience, but has also shown quite a willingness to go to bat for the establishment hacks he claims he's moved past, while taking cheap shots, undermining and demonizing those he claims to align with.

IMO, he is at best a spinster for ratings, at worst an establishment lackey (again, see Tea Party 1.0).

 

[cajuncocoa]

You guys had me confused for a minute. Interestingly enough, I'd guess that WAR is the type of Libertarian that Beck would get behind wholeheartedly.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Brett85]

We can make that exception for Israel when they become the 51st state. How's that?

I'm not saying I agree with him. I'm just saying that we can work with people who want a more humble, less interventionist foreign policy, even if they aren't 100% non interventionists.

 

[KurtBoyer25L]

Everyone who has a thought about Glenn beck seems to want to start a new thread on it and we just don't need that many. All points of view are welcome but not so many threads. Even merged there are four or five current ones

It's a major deal to the liberty movement to have this stuff going on. Besides, you know I'm not just talking about Glenn Beck. Thanks for burying something I took two hours to write, with the aim of making a difference in shutting down all the counterproductive crap being said by libertarians who just hate having people coming around to them.

 

[cajuncocoa]

I'm not saying I agree with him. I'm just saying that we can work with people who want a more humble, less interventionist foreign policy, even if they aren't 100% non interventionists.

I know we have to work with people, but at the same time I see that as part of the problem. We start out working with someone on one issue, then we're working with others on another issue, and by the time we've "worked with" all of these people on a lot of issues, we end up with something that doesn't look like a liberty agenda at all. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that freedom is a little bit like being pregnant: there are no degrees to either, you're either free (or pregnant) or you're not.

I'm so tired of waiting and compromising with people who don't understand the concept....yes, it requires responsibility, and a little pain at first. But you can't say that doing it their way has been working at all, so why not try it our way (100%) for once?

Yeah, that was a little bit of a rant....and not directed at you, TC.

 

[acptulsa]

I know we have to work with people, but at the same time I see that as part of the problem. We start out working with someone on one issue, then we're working with others on another issue, and by the time we've "worked with" all of these people on a lot of issues, we end up with something that doesn't look like a liberty agenda at all. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that freedom is a little bit like being pregnant: there are no degrees to either, you either are free (or pregnant) or you're not. I'm so tired of waiting and compromising with people who don't understand the concept....yes, it requires responsibility and a little pain at first. But you can't say that doing it their way has been working at all, so why not try it our way (100%) for once?

Yeah, that was a little bit of a rant....and not directed at you, TC.

Couldn't agree more. But after banging my head against that brick wall for thirty-three years or so, I'm more than ready to put away the gallon of ice cream and get out a little sample spoon for them.

Besides, I strongly suspect they'll like the first taste quite a bit. And then I can get the gallon carton right back out. The hard part is getting the sample spoon in the baby's mouth. The rest will likely be easy.

 

[KurtBoyer25L]

I know we have to work with people, but at the same time I see that as part of the problem. We start out working with someone on one issue, then we're working with others on another issue, and by the time we've "worked with" all of these people on a lot of issues, we end up with something that doesn't look like a liberty agenda at all. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that freedom is a little bit like being pregnant: there are no degrees to either, you're either free (or pregnant) or you're not.

I'm so tired of waiting and compromising with people who don't understand the concept....yes, it requires responsibility, and a little pain at first. But you can't say that doing it their way has been working at all, so why not try it our way (100%) for once?

Yeah, that was a little bit of a rant....and not directed at you, TC.

You need to understand that when we talk about people who are libertarian-leaning but don't understand all of it, we're talking about friends, family members and loved ones, people we know are good deep down. Like my Dad, who voted for Mitt Romney. Other movements are OK with gradual persuasion so why aren't we? This whole movement could succumb to elitism just as it's picking up serious steam.

 

[cajuncocoa]

You need to understand that when we talk about people who are libertarian-leaning but don't understand all of it, we're talking about friends, family members and loved ones, people we know are good deep down. Like my Dad, who voted for Mitt Romney. Other movements are OK with gradual persuasion so why aren't we? This whole movement could succumb to elitism just as it's picking up serious steam.

Yeah, even that's frustrating though. I know we can't give up, but I'm so damned tired of people who don't get it...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. My in-laws are all of the Santorum-supporter type, so you can see what I'm up against there.

 

[sailingaway]

You need to understand that when we talk about people who are libertarian-leaning but don't understand all of it, we're talking about friends, family members and loved ones, people we know are good deep down. Like my Dad, who voted for Mitt Romney. Other movements are OK with gradual persuasion so why aren't we? This whole movement could succumb to elitism just as it's picking up serious steam.

If they are honest, there is no issue. When someone has done this before and used the legitimacy we gave him to undermine the real liberty candidates, and we don't consider them honest, that is different. We work with people who aren't 'all the way with us' all the time.

 

[acptulsa]

Yeah, even that's frustrating though. I know we can't give up, but I'm so damned tired of people who don't get it...doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. My in-laws are all of the Santorum-supporter type, so you can see what I'm up against there.

Couldn't agree more. But, you know, they wouldn't be the first conservatives reticent to change. And, quite honestly, there are worse things...

"A liberal is a man who wants to use his own ideas on things in preference to generations who he knows know more than he does."--Will Rogers 1923

If only we could breed a liberservative voter that was slow to try new things and quick to abandon them when they failed, we'd be sitting pretty.

 

[LJC4Liberty]

Really struggling with this...I want to like him....BUT...I don't trust him. For example...what went on at the convention. I thought for sure after listening to Beck's constant proclamations of "standing for truth" that he couldn't possibly sit idly by while Romney, Greenburg, Preibus and the cronies did what they did to Paul. Even if he wasn't crazy about Dr. Paul - the blatant injustice and lack of integrity that was taking place so went against everything he proclaims to be for...and Beck stood idly by. Now when he says negative things about Romney, after jumpin on that wagon...it makes my blood boil!

Obama....Beck....wolves and sheep, wolves and sheep ????????? Damn, I want so badly to get behind SOMETHING to fix this mess we're in. This is not MY America!!!!!

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...Other political movements have advantages over libertarians that have helped them dominate the public sphere for so long. For one, they seem to understand that a politician who gives you 90% of what you want but fucks up 10% of the time is better than someone who is opposed to you on 90% of the issues. Liberals elected Jimmy Carter knowing full well that he was against centralized education, that he would probably ramp up the Cold War (which he did) and so on. But they also understood that his 90% agreement with their platform in 1976 made him a vast improvement (from the liberal perspective) over what came before. Similarly, Goldwater conservatives worked to elect and re-elect Ronald Reagan despite his expansion of government and rejection of civil liberties. They felt that despite his obvious flaws, he was a better politician and a better guy than Walter Mondale, which was probably true. But libertarians are seemingly incapable of grasping this concept. They seem to be waiting for a perfect deity to arrive at our doorstep and for the public to unconditionally fall in love with them...which is such a perversion of the 3rd party skepticism of all political figures which we have espoused all along.
...

You obviously put a lot of work into that post, so I'll comment here. I am a big tent, build-coalitions type person, so I agree with most of what you said.

But what if we turn around what you said above? Is it only the libertarians who are no compromise? I would point out that many teo-con pundits on the right (including Beck, Levin, Savage, Hannity to a certain extent) agree with Ron Paul on nearly every issue. But when their number one issue, Israel, comes up, directly or indirectly, they will vehemently denounce someone they agree with 90% of the time. And they will do that based on a completely irrational paranoia that the government of the US would somehow allow their favorite nation to be "wiped off the pages of history". Neutrality is a crime worthy of defamation and destruction. There are some no compromise libertarians, but their damn sure are a lot of no compromise sheep of every other persuasion out there too. This is not isolated to libertarians.