Islamic State fighters: "We will drown all of you in blood.''

You couldn't be admitting more clearly that you are here to troll, and that there is no standard of "proof" that would introduce the slightest doubt into the conclusions you have pre-formed on the matter.

What do you consider "sufficient proof", give me a definition.

What I consider sufficient proof are things like official documents, authoritative sources (e.g., someone in the Qatari government admitting to it, whistleblower, etc.), many eye witnesses to an event taking place where it would be unreasonable to suggest they are all lying or in cahoots.

So what do you consider concrete or sufficient proof before you believe a claim?
 
What do you consider "sufficient proof", give me a definition.

What I consider sufficient proof are things like official documents, authoritative sources (e.g., someone in the Qatari government admitting to it, whistleblower, etc.), many eye witnesses to an event taking place where it would be unreasonable to suggest they are all lying or in cahoots.

So what do you consider concrete or sufficient proof before you believe a claim?

Again, dishonest to the last, aren't you. I understand that unless I have firsthand evidence and can perform scientific tests, hard proof is impossible. Even a confession is not hard proof, as confessions can be coerced.

The question is not what can be proven beyond any doubt, but what is most likely to be true based on the information at hand.

Only a criminal defendant demands proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Which begs the question, which criminal(s) are you defending?
 
Your filthy foul mouth (boil) contradicts your blatantly false humanitarian position here. I wouldn't at all be surprised if we were to learn that you, as well as a few others in here were on the ISIS cyber payroll...

I agree with those in here who speak sense in regards to our "limited involvement" and I don't advocate putting any more troops in harms way. Strike the monsters from the air as is reasonable, drop supplies and weapons to the Kurds, and stay out of Syria. Let the Kurds pay for the weapons and supplies accordingly.

And would somebody please give Amy back her five bucks for her contribution here for heavens sake.
And here we have a troll, note the dangerous, and baseless, accusation. Foul language is all I have for what you peddle. Save them from earthly wrongs by killing swathes of them. A brilliant solution. Strike the monsters? What the fuck. Those monsters, well they are people, and just like YOU they rationalize their actions, one of their rationalizations is: The US killed a whole bunch of innocent people when it invaded Iraq, which probably has something to do with the size of ISIS (to say nothing of their American weaponry).

So you want to bomb them, where are they? Are they chillin in the desert, away from innocent people? As far as the Kurds, free market would solve their out gunned issue. But you? You would help them set up their own brand of tyranny, and would do it in the name of innocents. Which is a goddamned laugh. Right? No, the Kurds are our (LOL) allies, they would never turn tyrant... just like the Iraqi Army (which is probably a large part of ISIS) or those "rebels" you hawks so wanted to arm in Syria (Another contingent of ISIS).

Methinks, perhaps, you accuse me of a crime that you, yourself, are guilty of.
 
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Edmund Burke said evil flourishes when good men do nothing. And if there ever was an evil that has stalked this earth then this most definitely is it, reincarnated ten fold. It may very well be something that we have inadvertently unleashed upon the innocent children of the desert, who are now being hunted, raped, decapitated, and / or buried alive. For any fault of our own if not for the simple fact that we can perhaps stop it....don't you think we should at least try?

If by "we" you mean me or my children or my bank account, then the answer is NO! Go do it yourself. I happen to be convinced that the US government is corrupt and cannot be trusted to do much of anything, especially not fighting "evil". I also don't see much difference between decapitating children with a knife and decapitating them by firing a missile into their school room. Do you? And that makes us "evil" by your definition.

Thinking that what the middle east needs is MORE US bombs is like thinking that what Chicago needs for its violence problem is more gun control. How many times do we need to fail at Plan A before we stop repeating it? Hey, it didn't work the twenty times we tried before. We must need a bigger hammer!
 
Funny thing is that Americans who have the mentality to invade the world would be the first to support ISIS if they were born as Iraqis to fight back against the Americans who brought so much death to their country.
 
Again, dishonest to the last, aren't you. I understand that unless I have firsthand evidence and can perform scientific tests, hard proof is impossible. Even a confession is not hard proof, as confessions can be coerced.

The question is not what can be proven beyond any doubt, but what is most likely to be true based on the information at hand.

Only a criminal defendant demands proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Which begs the question, which criminal(s) are you defending?

I never said prove beyond a reasonable doubt, although they're both forms of inductive argumentation. See what I'm looking for is a strong or cogent inductive argument to prove what you're saying. Here's a definition for you.

An argument is cogent if, and only if, supposing the premises all to be true, then the conclusion is probably (but not necessarily) true. (Exactly what "probably" means is a matter of considerable debate.)

I'm sure we can agree now, that what must be presented to accept this claim is a strong inductive argument. The criteria for cogency is quite simple, the supporting evidence must all be true, they must essentially be facts (otherwise we're making ind. args inside of ind. args). My contention is, suggesting the US is funding IS, because the Qatari government is directly funding them, is not evidence to make this a cogent argument because, that in and of itself is not a fact, but an unsubstantiated claim made from bias individuals.

In an effort to pursue a rational discourse, we must then throw out that evidence unless it becomes unreasonable to doubt it.

So the point is, these are (as of now) unsubstantiated claims, so you or I can not verify them, therefore we cannot use them as proof in an inductive argument for whether or not the US government is funding and training IS.

Do you believe my criteria is reasonable or do you think we should allow unsubstantiated claims from unqualified authorities (who wouldn't ordinarily be privy to the financial transactions of Qatar) as evidence for an inductive argument?
 
Edmund Burke said evil flourishes when good men do nothing. And if there ever was an evil that has stalked this earth then this most definitely is it, reincarnated ten fold.

And when "good" men willingly acquiesce (perhaps even while "deploring maybe evils done by the way," to borrow a felicitous phrase from Tolkien) to the hypocritical "humanitarian" justifications that evil men never fail to offer for their devices and policies, evil does not merely flourish - it achieves a major and lasting victory.

The problem with the oft-cited "when good men do nothing" thesis (in contexts such as this) is that it is almost always without fail offered in justification for the expropriation of the labor, property, liberty and/or lives of some men in order that some other men may do "something" they deem (or pretend to believe) to be "good." And thus is evil compounded ...

It may very well be something that we have inadvertently unleashed upon the innocent children of the desert, who are now being hunted, raped, decapitated, and / or buried alive. For any fault of our own if not for the simple fact that we can perhaps stop it....don't you think we should at least try?

We? ... Our? ... :confused:

As for myself, I have NOT "unleashed" anything upon the "children of the desert" ("inadvertantly" or otherwise). Rather quite the opposite: I have vigorously, vehemently and vocally opposed all such "unleashings" as have been perpetrated to date (to whatever little extent I have been able - and to perhaps inconsequential effect).

What you call "any fault of our own" is NO fault of mine - it is the fault of the evil men who govern me without my consent and who enact policies without my condonation. So why, then, am I now to consider myself to be any more obliged (than, say, some randomly selected citizen of Botswana) to "at least try" to ameliorate the ill consequences of the polices of those evil men by - of all things! - supporting the continuance the very policies that produced those consequences in the first place?
 
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I gave you a link from a reputable news source showing that the CIA trained ISIS militias to fight in Syria. You can't just dismiss that as a conspiracy theory...

You think IBtimes is a reputable news site? Do you believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny too?
 
I never said prove beyond a reasonable doubt, although they're both forms of inductive argumentation. See what I'm looking for is a strong or cogent inductive argument to prove what you're saying. Here's a definition for you.

An argument is cogent if, and only if, supposing the premises all to be true, then the conclusion is probably (but not necessarily) true. (Exactly what "probably" means is a matter of considerable debate.)

I'm sure we can agree now, that what must be presented to accept this claim is a strong inductive argument. The criteria for cogency is quite simple, the supporting evidence must all be true, they must essentially be facts (otherwise we're making ind. args inside of ind. args). My contention is, suggesting the US is funding IS, because the Qatari government is directly funding them, is not evidence to make this a cogent argument because, that in and of itself is not a fact, but an unsubstantiated claim made from bias individuals.

In an effort to pursue a rational discourse, we must then throw out that evidence unless it becomes unreasonable to doubt it.

So the point is, these are (as of now) unsubstantiated claims, so you or I can not verify them, therefore we cannot use them as proof in an inductive argument for whether or not the US government is funding and training IS.

Do you believe my criteria is reasonable or do you think we should allow unsubstantiated claims from unqualified authorities (who wouldn't ordinarily be privy to the financial transactions of Qatar) as evidence for an inductive argument?

Show me you have the ability to distinguish between a) facts essential to an argument, and b) supporting information for an argument which, if it turns out to be false, does not alter the validity of the argument in question.

I made a quite-cogent case many posts ago. You have chosen to focus on elements that are not essential in any way to the argument, and yet here you still demand an case be made that has already been given.

I also note that if your terms were applied to your own arguments, you would fail them utterly.
 
Your filthy foul mouth (boil) contradicts your blatantly false humanitarian position here. I wouldn't at all be surprised if we were to learn that you, as well as a few others in here were on the ISIS cyber payroll...

I agree with those in here who speak sense in regards to our "limited involvement" and I don't advocate putting any more troops in harms way. Strike the monsters from the air as is reasonable, drop supplies and weapons to the Kurds, and stay out of Syria. Let the Kurds pay for the weapons and supplies accordingly.

And would somebody please give Amy back her five bucks for her contribution here for heavens sake.

Who's payroll are you on?

Wonder if ISIS has accessed any of Syrias WMD? Like bio stuff? Guess we will soon find out. Glad I'm not around DC or Texas. Things could get really nasty really quickly.

Iv'e never heard that line before.......

I think Amy's contribution can stay, and it's telling that you want somebody else to give the five bucks.
 
In the immortal words of George Dubya Bush: "Fool me once, shame on ... shame on you. Fool me ... you can't get fooled again."

Bush%20confused.jpg
 
Wonder if ISIS has accessed any of Syrias WMD? Like bio stuff? Guess we will soon find out. Glad I'm not around DC or Texas. Things could get really nasty really quickly.

Dirty bomb would be the thing that concerns me most about these threats of harm to us that we are hearing from those abroad. And it's the most likely scenario, unfortunately. Scary stuff. Sometimes we'd do well to put politics aside and revert to common sense.
 
Arguments from authority carry very little weight. In science particularly as there are no authorities. None.

Good thing I carry my handy dandy Baloney Detection Kit with me at all times. It's just a short list of warning signs that suggest deception.

We're not talking about science or mathematics, because in these fields deductive reasoning can be used quite extensively. For example deductive syllogisms can be used to deductively come to scientific conclusions (e.g., not every human has been examined, but we can be sure every human has a heart as it's crucial for the mammalian circulatory system).

In scenarios where inductive arguments are the only approach to coming to a conclusion such as what we're discussing today, arguments from authority can carry significant weight. For example a Qatari official who would be privy to the countries financial appropriations is an authority on where Qatari money is going. This can be used to form a cogent inductive argument (it should still be substantiated with other facts, since an official can lie, but that is a legitimate authority). On the flipside, someone like Nouri al Maliki, cannot be cited without committing the fallacy "appeal to an unqualified authority" because as far as we know he does not have access to Qatari financial records, and is aligned with a political block opposite to the GCC.

We can go further into discussing logic and philosophy, but it appears people on RPF need a serious refresher course.
 
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