Is Ted Cruz undermining Rand Paul?

[libertygold]

enough employees and I think by proxy you can say the company does

I'm not willing to say Ted Cruz is bought off by Goldman Sachs just because his wife works there. The media has been trying to make something of him getting his health insurance through Goldman Sachs and saying its not right to oppose health insurance for others while one gets it from an investment bank like Goldman Sachs but that is just their bias. Not everyone connected with Goldman Sachs is in some sort of conspiracy. I think Cruz's ties to the Bush family is more worrying. I can't say for sure but I think he would be more partial to Jeb Bush and could be running a mission now to make sure the liberty movement is weakened in case Jeb runs for president.

 

[dcraelin]

I'm not willing to say Ted Cruz is bought off by Goldman Sachs just because his wife works there. The media has been trying to make something of him getting his health insurance through Goldman Sachs and saying its not right to oppose health insurance for others while one gets it from an investment bank like Goldman Sachs but that is just their bias. Not everyone connected with Goldman Sachs is in some sort of conspiracy. I think Cruz's ties to the Bush family is more worrying. I can't say for sure but I think he would be more partial to Jeb Bush and could be running a mission now to make sure the liberty movement is weakened in case Jeb runs for president.

well some article I read said that he picked up alot of donations from GoldmanSachs employees. But I think your spot on on your other arguements

 

[AuH20]

There's a petition circulating for Ted Cruz to be charged with sedition and to be expelled from the Senate. If anything, he's the most toxic and unliked person in politics right now.

This couldn't have worked out ANY better for Rand.

Rand will get his in due time. All this false jubiliation about Cruz is rather comical, when the same thing will be done to Rand. We're all in this together. Cruz, Lee and Rand. No one in the establishment cares for them.

 

[libertygold]

well some article I read said that he picked up alot of donations from GoldmanSachs employees. But I think your spot on on your other arguements

Interesting. Could you post a link to that article if you could? Maybe Cruz ultimately is doing the bidding of the investment banks. To me it seems like the Bush connection is more relevant in terms of electoral politics and the idea that he may be clearing the way for Jeb.

 

[dcraelin]

well cant find article I was thinking of but here is a link from daily paul liberty forum with other links http://www.dailypaul.com/235714/shockingly-deep-ties-to-goldman-sachs-threaten-ted-cruzs-senate-bid and another link http://www.statesman.com/news/news/...ent-senate-bid-relies-heavily-on-washi/nRkbr/

you may be right on Bush connection libertygold, either way shows less than genuine candidate

 

[dcraelin]

I saw that Drudge had an article that GoldmanSachs paid Hillary 400000 for 2 speeches that were almost back-to-back. They just may be orchestrating who they want to be the candidates.

 

[libertygold]

I saw that Drudge had an article that GoldmanSachs paid Hillary 400000 for 2 speeches that were almost back-to-back. They just may be orchestrating who they want to be the candidates.

I am not so sure it is as conspiratorial as you make it sound but I wouldn't be surprised. hahaha.

 

[libertygold]

I heard Chris Matthews say Rand will get the nomination because he will appear moderate compared to Cruz. I think this is wrong though. I think now that Democrats like Matthews think that they will attack that strategy and link Rand to Cruz and try to make Rand look wishy washy if he appears to distance himself. That is why I think Rand should distance himself as soon as possible since Cruz is really just trying to help the establishment of the GOP. I could be wrong but his association with the Bush's really makes me think he may be a pawn in the overall goal of making Jeb the nominee.

 

[libertygold]

Looks like there is no way Ted Cruz doesn't run... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/texas-republicans-ted-cruz_n_4218004.html He has too many activists in Texas who could help in Iowa and New Hampshire. I don't see someone who seems like an egomaniac like Cruz simply not running when he has that much support among activists in Texas.

 

[dcraelin]

looks to me like the establishment is setting up either Christy or Bush to win next time around. Their seems to be some hesitation developing around Christy or maybe this latest news on his being rejected by Romney is just to get that news out of the way early. Seems Hillary is being propped up for a loss. Cruz to run interference against Paul.

 

[libertygold]

looks to me like the establishment is setting up either Christy or Bush to win next time around. Their seems to be some hesitation developing around Christy or maybe this latest news on his being rejected by Romney is just to get that news out of the way early. Seems Hillary is being propped up for a loss. Cruz to run interference against Paul.

Exactly. That is what I was thinking. And now more stories are even coming out about tensions between rand and cruz. I think cruz simply saw the growing popularity of rand's brand and jumped on it for himself.

 

[Peace&Freedom]

looks to me like the establishment is setting up either Christy or Bush to win next time around. Their seems to be some hesitation developing around Christy or maybe this latest news on his being rejected by Romney is just to get that news out of the way early. Seems Hillary is being propped up for a loss. Cruz to run interference against Paul.

More precisely, the establishment would like to position Christie and Bush as the real 'first tier,' and have the campaign reporting be dominated by their dynamic, to keep from putting any emphasis of Rand (the same way they orchestrated a non-stop Mitt vs Perry, Mitt vs Newt, Mitt vs Santorum race coverage in 2011-12). Actually, the fix will likely be in to shepherd Jeb as the chosen one, with Christie serving as the credible challenger, or plan B if Jeb blunders. But the choice will be poised as one of hack 1 or hack 2.

This way it gives off the illusion they are covering the race, when they are merely emphasizing the acceptable frontrunners they have selected. By keeping all the focus on the selected two, they can marginalize Rand by omission, just as with Ron in 2008 and 2012. Where they do cover Rand, it would be as a 'second tier' guy fighting for Tea Party bragging rights with Cruz, who may try to provoke Rand into diversionary debates over extreme wording on an issue, or even over race. They will split the more commited social conservative candidates the same way, to split that vote so the milquetoast moderate anointed guy can again win the key early primaries, then be coronated as the prospective nominee the conservatives are stuck with supporting.

 

[dinosaur]

More precisely, the establishment would like to position Christie and Bush as the real 'first tier,' and have the campaign reporting be dominated by their dynamic, to keep from putting any emphasis of Rand (the same way they orchestrated a non-stop Mitt vs Perry, Mitt vs Newt, Mitt vs Santorum race coverage in 2011-12). Actually, the fix will likely be in to shepherd Jeb as the chosen one, with Christie serving as the credible challenger, or plan B if Jeb blunders. But the choice will be poised as one of hack 1 or hack 2.

This way it gives off the illusion they are covering the race, when they are merely emphasizing the acceptable frontrunners they have selected. By keeping all the focus on the selected two, they can marginalize Rand by omission, just as with Ron in 2008 and 2012. Where they do cover Rand, it would be as a 'second tier' guy fighting for Tea Party bragging rights with Cruz, who may try to provoke Rand into diversionary debates over extreme wording on an issue, or even over race. They will split the more commited social conservative candidates the same way, to split that vote so the milquetoast moderate anointed guy can again win the key early primaries, then be coronated as the prospective nominee the conservatives are stuck with supporting.

Good Summary.

 

[unknown]

No clue, but if the GOP doesnt present Rand as the GOP nominee, theyre going to lose, again.

 

[libertygold]

Now even the media is picking up that there may be tension between cruz and rand. I think the idea that cruz is working for the establishment and may be trying split the movement and dilute rand's support should be taken seriously. Nobody is that close to the bush family with nothing up their sleeve. Just saw these articles someone sent me.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/11/03/4596106/buzzchatter-monday-you-wont-believe.html
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/11/rand-paul-and-ted-cruz-are-frenemies/71191/

 

[dinosaur]

Now even the media is picking up that there may be tension between cruz and rand. I think the idea that cruz is working for the establishment and may be trying split the movement and dilute rand's support should be taken seriously. Nobody is that close to the bush family with nothing up their sleeve. Just saw these articles someone sent me.

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/11/03/4596106/buzzchatter-monday-you-wont-believe.html
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/11/rand-paul-and-ted-cruz-are-frenemies/71191/

I'm sure Rand is taking it seriously. Or, less likely, Cruz is a double agent who is just letting the establishment thinks that he will be a spoiler for them. Either way, maybe the people trying to keep it hush are right and we should even shut up about it here and stop bumping this thread. If it is seriously being pushed in the media right now, we don't need to add to the perception..because a public war between the two would be very detrimental to Rand right now.

 

[libertygold]

I'm sure Rand is taking it seriously. Or, less likely, Cruz is a double agent who is just letting the establishment thinks that he will be a spoiler for them. Either way, maybe the people trying to keep it hush are right and we should even shut up about it here and stop bumping this thread. If it is seriously being pushed in the media right now, we don't need to add to the perception..because a public war between the two would be very detrimental to Rand right now.

It is a tough one. A public war between the two would not be good. At the same time I think people should realize that supporting cruz just ultimately undermines rand. I think it is ok to bring that up here because this is a forum of people friendly to rand. It isn't like we are going on cnn and announcing it.

 

[dcraelin]

More precisely, the establishment would like to position Christie and Bush as the real 'first tier,' and have the campaign reporting be dominated by their dynamic, to keep from putting any emphasis of Rand (the same way they orchestrated a non-stop Mitt vs Perry, Mitt vs Newt, Mitt vs Santorum race coverage in 2011-12). Actually, the fix will likely be in to shepherd Jeb as the chosen one, with Christie serving as the credible challenger, or plan B if Jeb blunders. But the choice will be poised as one of hack 1 or hack 2.

This way it gives off the illusion they are covering the race, when they are merely emphasizing the acceptable frontrunners they have selected. By keeping all the focus on the selected two, they can marginalize Rand by omission, just as with Ron in 2008 and 2012. Where they do cover Rand, it would be as a 'second tier' guy fighting for Tea Party bragging rights with Cruz, who may try to provoke Rand into diversionary debates over extreme wording on an issue, or even over race. They will split the more commited social conservative candidates the same way, to split that vote so the milquetoast moderate anointed guy can again win the key early primaries, then be coronated as the prospective nominee the conservatives are stuck with supporting.

excellent analysis. And now we here that the Democratic party rolled over for Christy in New Jersey.

 

[libertygold]

excellent analysis. And now we here that the Democratic party rolled over for Christy in New Jersey.

I agree that was a very well thought out analysis. Thank you for articulating that. We always end up getting stuck with a Dole, Bush, McCain, Romney, Christie, etc. Complete sell outs to the values of liberty.

 

[libertygold]

Has anyone else seen that ted cruz said rand can't win because of his father? What the heck is that all about? Way for cruz to show his gratitude when it ron helped him become Senator.