Is Ted Cruz undermining Rand Paul?

[libertygold]

Cruz has gotten butchered in the polls since his "filibuster". He had to know it was going to hurt him going in if it played out like it has. Had he succeeded and obamacare was gone. He'd be the nomination. Since it hasn't Rand it the only viable tea party/liberty party candidate as of right now.

Yeah but what good is being the only viable tea party/liberty candidate when that brand was just so damaged by Cruz? That is the problem.

 

[rich34]

Thank you for that good comment. I agree Ted Cruz is completely self-serving and not trying to help Rand. My intuition from years of observation of the political scene and movements is that Ted Cruz is trying to steal the thunder away from Rand, particularly because of Rand's increase in popularity following the #standwithrand This will ultimately split up the liberty movement and give the nomination to Christie.

Ted Cruz at 14%- problem is a lot of that 14% favorability is coming from the liberty movement so as Ted alienates most of the country he splits the liberty movement at the same time. Cruz is bad news in my opinion. I've seen these sorts of opportunists before who just want the attention, money, speaker's fees, accolades, etc. and so will use the liberty movement so long as it fits them. If he were truly committed to liberty he would not have been so closely tied to Bush.

Good post and it gives the image of Mike Lee channeling Emperor Palpatine as far as being politically shrewd goes.

Ted's Role is as a booster. But not for Rand.

Ted's entire point is to prepare a play for Paul Ryan to sweep in as hero. As the VP, Ryan is it for the party elders, don't forget that.

Anything that is not genuine grassroots is 100% about making Ryan look better.

At the moment Ryan is being set up to achieve a compromise from an impossible situation. This is supposed to make him look smarter than anyone else in the party, but also make him look a lot more reasonable than the democrats. He will be the Hero that was able to talk both sides down from the cliff.

A cliff that was largely created by Ted.

I can't see Cruz getting far in a presidential primary particularly in New Hampshire

You all have had some really good responses. Glad to see I wasn't the only one who had that thought about Cruz actually harming Rand and the liberty movement. Paul Ryan is a complete sell out. He supported stimulus and war under Bush. He will say anything to anyone. Also Palin, another person who comes along and appeals to us expecting us to buy her books, etc. is another fraud who was for war among other things. We keep getting all these people- Paul Ryan, Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, etc. who just want to use us and it ends up diluting our message and hurting in the long run. This is why I think we should stand up to them and not just let them run all over us. We should let them know we don't appreciate them trying to co-opt the liberty movement for their own self-serving reasons like all other politicians. Cruz is trying to get attention for himself from us while at the same time allowing as someone else said, Paul Ryan to come in and look like the moderate. Can't you see we're being had by these people?

Respectfully I disagree. I think Ted will run for President because he has nothing to lose. He loves the attention.

Still think Ted Cruz probably won't be running?....
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/12/cruz-wins-religious-conservatives-2016-straw-poll/

It is all happening underneath our feet. He is undermining the liberty movement. This will harm Rand in the long-run. I hope we see it sooner rather than later. Or perhaps more importantly, I hope people on his staff see it sooner rather than later.

His job is to split it and feed it to Ryan.

Ryan is the play, everything else is fog.

I agree totally and have been screaming the same thing. I'm afraid by the time some realize this his hold on 10 percent will already be in place. By then any and all attacks on him appearing to come from Rand's supporters will harden them to anyone, but Rand. Sure I blast Cruz on this forum, but not with coworkers or anyone else for fear I could lose a potential Rand supporter down the road. To those who think Cruz is not running you better think again and hard. The man is not eligible and should know this, but that won't stop the establishment from using him as a tool in the primary to siphon votes away from Rand. Hopefully Rand can keep Palin on board, because she seriously does have a strong following and her supporters will do most of what she says. Getting an endorsement from her could be an automatic 5 point bump. But back to Cruz before pollsters started adding him to the mix Rand was set to go into the 30 point range in Iowa, but since then Rand's lead has stabilized if not shrunk a little. Just a tool to keep Rand's numbers from going into the stratosphere..

 

[Carlybee]

Hitching his wagon to McConnell may ultimately do more damage.

 

[dinosaur]

Hitching his wagon to McConnell may ultimately do more damage.

Hasn't McConnell been hitching his wagon to Rand?

 

[rich34]

Thank you for that good comment. I agree Ted Cruz is completely self-serving and not trying to help Rand. My intuition from years of observation of the political scene and movements is that Ted Cruz is trying to steal the thunder away from Rand, particularly because of Rand's increase in popularity following the #standwithrand This will ultimately split up the liberty movement and give the nomination to Christie.

Ted Cruz at 14%- problem is a lot of that 14% favorability is coming from the liberty movement so as Ted alienates most of the country he splits the liberty movement at the same time. Cruz is bad news in my opinion. I've seen these sorts of opportunists before who just want the attention, money, speaker's fees, accolades, etc. and so will use the liberty movement so long as it fits them. If he were truly committed to liberty he would not have been so closely tied to Bush.

Good post and it gives the image of Mike Lee channeling Emperor Palpatine as far as being politically shrewd goes.

Ted's Role is as a booster. But not for Rand.

Ted's entire point is to prepare a play for Paul Ryan to sweep in as hero. As the VP, Ryan is it for the party elders, don't forget that.

Anything that is not genuine grassroots is 100% about making Ryan look better.

At the moment Ryan is being set up to achieve a compromise from an impossible situation. This is supposed to make him look smarter than anyone else in the party, but also make him look a lot more reasonable than the democrats. He will be the Hero that was able to talk both sides down from the cliff.

A cliff that was largely created by Ted.

I can't see Cruz getting far in a presidential primary particularly in New Hampshire

You all have had some really good responses. Glad to see I wasn't the only one who had that thought about Cruz actually harming Rand and the liberty movement. Paul Ryan is a complete sell out. He supported stimulus and war under Bush. He will say anything to anyone. Also Palin, another person who comes along and appeals to us expecting us to buy her books, etc. is another fraud who was for war among other things. We keep getting all these people- Paul Ryan, Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, etc. who just want to use us and it ends up diluting our message and hurting in the long run. This is why I think we should stand up to them and not just let them run all over us. We should let them know we don't appreciate them trying to co-opt the liberty movement for their own self-serving reasons like all other politicians. Cruz is trying to get attention for himself from us while at the same time allowing as someone else said, Paul Ryan to come in and look like the moderate. Can't you see we're being had by these people?

Respectfully I disagree. I think Ted will run for President because he has nothing to lose. He loves the attention.

Still think Ted Cruz probably won't be running?....
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/12/cruz-wins-religious-conservatives-2016-straw-poll/

It is all happening underneath our feet. He is undermining the liberty movement. This will harm Rand in the long-run. I hope we see it sooner rather than later. Or perhaps more importantly, I hope people on his staff see it sooner rather than later.

His job is to split it and feed it to Ryan.

Ryan is the play, everything else is fog.

You very well may be right. After seeing that WSJ article about who the there winners are and ryans Ass being one of them along with Rand of course I believe you are right..

Hasn't McConnell been hitching his wagon to Rand?

That's kinda how I see it. Sure none of us likes this, but it goes back to ya gotta play the game. Who knows, if McConnell gets re-elected just maybe Rand will get an endorsement from the republican senate minority leader, hopefully majority leader by then. Not sure how much that helps but having the minority/majority leader endorsing your run can't hurt.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

Booker is in bad shape now, lots of negative PR. Lonegan is within 6 points,

It doesn't matter. OFA needs a black guy on the 2016 ticket to keep their people energized and in the game. Booker is it. They will go the wall with the vote fraud tomorrow for it if they need to. And Christie will let them, in exchange for OFA & "Holder's people" backing off his gubernatorial election in three weeks.

Biden, do I really even have to explain...

Well, I might have to explain to you...

If Obama/OFA backs Biden as his virtual third term, they will have people in the media willing to destroy Hillary and/or John Kerry if Obama asks them to. Both are very dirty and destroyable.

(Jerry Brown may be clean enough to survive an OFA attack, though.)

 

[libertygold]

It doesn't matter. OFA needs a black guy on the 2016 ticket to keep their people energized and in the game. Booker is it. They will go the wall with the vote fraud tomorrow for it if they need to. And Christie will let them, in exchange for OFA & "Holder's people" backing off his gubernatorial election in three weeks.



Well, I might have to explain to you...

If Obama/OFA backs Biden as his virtual third term, they will have people in the media willing to destroy Hillary and/or John Kerry if Obama asks them to. Both are very dirty and destroyable.

(Jerry Brown may be clean enough to survive an OFA attack, though.)

Do you really think it is that racial?

 

[libertywanter]

AGREE AGREE AGREE, to comment about he should not hitch his wagon to McConnel

 

[libertygold]

AGREE AGREE AGREE, to comment about he should not hitch his wagon to McConnel

McConnel is the face of the GOP establishment.

 

[Carlybee]

Hasn't McConnell been hitching his wagon to Rand?

Perhaps but technically Rand endorsed McConnell and pow-wows with him. The radio talking heads who now lean Tea Party are pissed at McConnell over what they percieve as capitulating to the Dems over the debt ceiling. Is Rand going to end up being associated with that or with the Cruz loving Tea Partiers? The Tea Party brand has been damaged among moderates but seems to be going strong in media and social media.

 

[dinosaur]

Perhaps but technically Rand endorsed McConnell and pow-wows with him. The radio talking heads who now lean Tea Party are pissed at McConnell over what they percieve as capitulating to the Dems over the debt ceiling. Is Rand going to end up being associated with that or with the Cruz loving Tea Partiers? The Tea Party brand has been damaged among moderates but seems to be going strong in media and social media.

Has Rand been damaged by associating with democrats when he finds common ground issues to work with them on? I don't know, anything is possible when it comes to Limbaugh and Beck and Co.

 

[Carlybee]

Has Rand been damaged by associating with democrats when he finds common ground issues to work with them on? I don't know, anything is possible when it comes to Limbaugh and Beck and Co.

Limbaugh, Hannity et al...as much as I can't stand them, in the past have been able to influence their followers which will help determine who gets the nomination. I think there is a civil war brewing within the party (not to mention the really vitriolic one already established between red and blue voters) and I think Rand may be straddling a fine line. (Limbaugh rarely discusses Rand, but he plays up Cruz and Lee quite often.)

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

Perhaps but technically Rand endorsed McConnell and pow-wows with him. The radio talking heads who now lean Tea Party are pissed at McConnell over what they percieve as capitulating to the Dems over the debt ceiling. Is Rand going to end up being associated with that.

Rand'll be fine assuming he votes against this deal.

 

[libertygold]

Limbaugh, Hannity et al...as much as I can't stand them, in the past have been able to influence their followers which will help determine who gets the nomination. I think there is a civil war brewing within the party (not to mention the really vitriolic one already established between red and blue voters) and I think Rand may be straddling a fine line. (Limbaugh rarely discusses Rand, but he plays up Cruz and Lee quite often.)

Limbaugh, Hannity, etc. are just shills for the GOP. One of the things which really concerns me about Rand getting close to the establishment is they are just waiting to figure out a way to smash the movement. Limbaugh and Hannity are the face of everything the liberty movement is against. Corporate propagandists doing the work of the establishment.

 

[KingNothing]

I'm going to take a different spin on this. I think the Obamacare/shutdown thing was actually a suicide mission for Cruz. I think he jumped on the grenade for Rand.

This might be true. I think the consequence was a temporary, bug significant, blow to the Republican brand, though. It was a very poor tactic, politically.

 

[libertygold]

This might be true. I think the consequence was a temporary, bug significant, blow to the Republican brand, though. It was a very poor tactic, politically.

It sucks how rand was trying to get over with the Republican brand just as the Republican brand fell apart. lol. We can never seem to win. Maybe he should start his own party.

 

[RonPaulGeorge&Ringo]

Do you really think it is that racial?

For everyone? No.
For plenty of people who make their living off of politically exploiting race? Yes.
For enough people to make the difference at the margins? yes.

 

[libertygold]

For everyone? No.
For plenty of people who make their living off of politically exploiting race? Yes.
For enough people to make the difference at the margins? yes.

Good points.

 

[Malcolm_Sharpe]

...I think there is a civil war brewing within the party...

I thought we were the civil war in the party and that we started it a few years ago.

 

[ObiRandKenobi]

ted cruz was like the best thing that could've happened to rand.