Is Ted Cruz undermining Rand Paul?

[libertygold]

Still personally use the term ally. I mean, come on, folks, one person isn't going to be able to reform a Party. You'll need multiple members to do that. And I again would point to Cruz reading tweets during Paul's filibuster. Sure, some call it pandering, but if that were the case, you'd have expected someone like Rubio, Graham or McCain to do it just to make themselves look good. But they didn't. I mean, in the House, are Massie and Amash out to undermine each other? Probably not. Is Cruz out to undermine Paul? In my mind, it's too soon to tell. Plus, let's be honest: Paul isn't going to win every single poll, vote or be the leading voice on everything GOP-related, as much as some people here would like him to be.

I'm telling ya, I got a feeling about Cruz. By the time people realize it, the damage will have been done. The reason those Senators you mentioned didn't read the tweets is they are not trying to get the support of the liberty movement. Cruz was blatantly grandstanding so he could get our support and money and volunteers and speaker's fees, etc.

 

[libertygold]

I suppose time will tell but it may become too late if the liberty movement is co-opted and weakened. Then instead of just losing an election, we lose our principles with the election. Cruz is too close to the Bush family to trust.

 

[libertygold]

Without Ron Paul, there would be no liberty movement to propel Rand and more liberty-leaning patriots into office.

Ron was the best. Nobody is at his level now. Rand is like a copy of a copy which loses a lot of the quality.

 

[libertygold]

Does anyone else think from the grandstanding of Ted the last few days with the veterans that he isn't looking out for his own ego? I don't think he has Rand or the liberty movement's interest in mind at all.

 

[libertygold]

Possible. Hillary would be tough to beat unless Rand and Cruz grow a vagina. They got the first black president, the first woman will be quite tempting for low information voters.

Please elaborate on this.

 

[jtstellar]

Ron was the best. Nobody is at his level now. Rand is like a copy of a copy which loses a lot of the quality.

| ron |---------------> | rand |------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> | everybody else | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->| rand haters |

that's the problem

 

[mosquitobite]

Exactly. They watch a couple youtube videos from the Mises Institute and all of a sudden they think they know everything. lol. This is what scares me about people falling for people who talk the language but in the long-run don't care about liberty. What scares me is people new to the liberty movement will just assume if someone is talking the language they must be good but people who have been around the while understand how movements get co-opted and people will use the movement to assemble their own list or raise money, or get volunteers, etc. People who truly care about liberty wouldn't be falling for people like Paul Ryan, Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, etc. They have nothing on Ron Paul.

I still fight with my dad on this point. I'm 37, he is 58.
I have *NEVER* trusted Sarah Palin. He loves her.
Thinks Paul Ryan leans libertarian Sun rises with Ted Cruz.

He does like Rand, but I consider my dad the kind of voters we need to get - and Ted Cruz is doing exactly what the leadership wants him to do - split that block.

Thing is, Cruz at this point is doing action. Which is what the base is clamoring for. We've all been burned enough not to trust words and expect action - which Cruz has given them. The fact that the GOP leadership (Boehner) changed the rules right before the shut down so that only he or Cantor could put up a vote on a CR is enough for me to know they planned to go along with Cruz the whole time. And if the leadership was behind it...

 

[libertygold]

I still fight with my dad on this point. I'm 37, he is 58.
I have *NEVER* trusted Sarah Palin. He loves her.
Thinks Paul Ryan leans libertarian Sun rises with Ted Cruz.

He does like Rand, but I consider my dad the kind of voters we need to get - and Ted Cruz is doing exactly what the leadership wants him to do - split that block.

Thing is, Cruz at this point is doing action. Which is what the base is clamoring for. We've all been burned enough not to trust words and expect action - which Cruz has given them. The fact that the GOP leadership (Boehner) changed the rules right before the shut down so that only he or Cantor could put up a vote on a CR is enough for me to know they planned to go along with Cruz the whole time. And if the leadership was behind it...

You get it. The establishment loves that Cruz may be splitting the liberty block.

 

[idiom]

His job is to split it and feed it to Ryan.

Ryan is the play, everything else is fog.

 

[rich34]

Ted's Role is as a booster. But not for Rand.

Ted's entire point is to prepare a play for Paul Ryan to sweep in as hero. As the VP, Ryan is it for the party elders, don't forget that.

Anything that is not genuine grassroots is 100% about making Ryan look better.

At the moment Ryan is being set up to achieve a compromise from an impossible situation. This is supposed to make him look smarter than anyone else in the party, but also make him look a lot more reasonable than the democrats. He will be the Hero that was able to talk both sides down from the cliff.

A cliff that was largely created by

Ted.

You very well may be right. After seeing that WSJ article about who the there winners are and ryans Ass being one of them along with Rand of course I believe you are right..

 

[jbauer]

I'm going to take a different spin on this. I think the Obamacare/shutdown thing was actually a suicide mission for Cruz. I think he jumped on the grenade for Rand.

 

[jbauer]

Natural Citizen, I tend to agree. Rand has let me down lately by claiming he is not for ending the war on drugs and thinks libertarians just want to smoke pot and roll around in the mud. I was very disappointed to here him say those things. Can you imagine his father uttering those words? Ron Paul was such a great orator for expressing liberty. He never would compromise his principles for cheap soundbites which betray people who actually believe in the cause. I have tended to support Rand and maybe unfairly give himt he benefit of the doubt because of the respect and admiration I have had for his father for a long time. I don't know though, Rand lately may drive me to Gary Johnson.

Would you rather had Rand smoke a joint in a Hawaiian shirt? Rand needs to appeal to a huge tent to win. The direction the country is moving is toward the end of the war on drugs. Politics is all about baby steps. The reason Ron was a "crazy old uncle" is that he wanted it done now. Heck I want it done now but in reality is a gradual swing. Go listen to the political history of anything going on today. It take decades, even centuries to reverse the political direction on big ticket items.

 

[jbauer]

You know, if Ted Cruz runs for the GOP nomination the birthers will have to either come out against him are start cooking up some crow.

Not a birther, but it would be generous of us to provide them with a recipe

 

[libertygold]

I'm going to take a different spin on this. I think the Obamacare/shutdown thing was actually a suicide mission for Cruz. I think he jumped on the grenade for Rand.

It was indeed a suicide mission but I don't think he jumped on the grenade for Rand. I think he ends up hurting Rand since he will be lumped in with Cruz.

 

[rich34]

I'm going to take a different spin on this. I think the Obamacare/shutdown thing was actually a suicide mission for Cruz. I think he jumped on the grenade for Rand.

No way did Cruz do this for the benefit of Rand.. He did it hoping to duplicate what the drone thing did for Rand, and that's it! My hope is, is that it was Lee who helped Rand by pushing Cruz into doing it and Rand capitalized on the situation by appearing as the moderate on this issue. I have no proof, but I'd like to think Lee went along with it so Rand could get him back for Cruz trying to position HIMSELF as the moderate on foreign policy when asked his views on the subject he said he'd be somewhere in between Paul and McCain on FP.. An answer we know is a lie based on him wanting to send 75000 troops into Syria until it was clear the people weren't behind it then he sang a different tune hoping no one would remember his previous stance. Serves him right, for the snake that he is...

 

[dinosaur]

I'm going to take a different spin on this. I think the Obamacare/shutdown thing was actually a suicide mission for Cruz. I think he jumped on the grenade for Rand.

It would be nice if this were true. If Cruz doesn't run, or drops early and enthusiastically endorses Rand, I'll believe it.

 

[libertygold]

No way did Cruz do this for the benefit of Rand.. He did it hoping to duplicate what the drone thing did for Rand, and that's it! My hope is, is that it was Lee who helped Rand by pushing Cruz into doing it and Rand capitalized on the situation by appearing as the moderate on this issue. I have no proof, but I'd like to think Lee went along with it so Rand could get him back for Cruz trying to position HIMSELF as the moderate on foreign policy when asked his views on the subject he said he'd be somewhere in between Paul and McCain on FP.. An answer we know is a lie based on him wanting to send 75000 troops into Syria until it was clear the people weren't behind it then he sang a different tune hoping no one would remember his previous stance. Serves him right, for the snake that he is...

Rich, you echoed my exact original concern about Cruz. That his 21 hour speech was to try to do for himself what Rand did with his #standwithrand filibuster on drones. what Ted Cruz has done is actually hurt Rand by turning the nation against the tea party and the liberty movement, and splitting the movement. We should be slamming Cruz in public for this. Are any Rand staffers reading this? lol.

 

[jbauer]

It would be nice if this were true. If Cruz doesn't run, or drops early and enthusiastically endorses Rand, I'll believe it.

Cruz has gotten butchered in the polls since his "filibuster". He had to know it was going to hurt him going in if it played out like it has. Had he succeeded and obamacare was gone. He'd be the nomination. Since it hasn't Rand it the only viable tea party/liberty party candidate as of right now.

 

[jbauer]

Rich, you echoed my exact original concern about Cruz. That his 21 hour speech was to try to do for himself what Rand did with his #standwithrand filibuster on drones. what Ted Cruz has done is actually hurt Rand by turning the nation against the tea party and the liberty movement, and splitting the movement. We should be slamming Cruz in public for this. Are any Rand staffers reading this? lol.

Ted had nothing to do with the turning on the tea party in the media. That was cool, calm and calculated by the progressives. (Dems and Reps) If you can't get your way, blame someone who is the biggest threat to you getting your way. The whole no negotiation stuff by Barry has been set up for months.

 

[dinosaur]

Cruz has gotten butchered in the polls since his "filibuster". He had to know it was going to hurt him going in if it played out like it has. Had he succeeded and obamacare was gone. He'd be the nomination. Since it hasn't Rand it the only viable tea party/liberty party candidate as of right now.

Yeah, but one doesn't need to be viable to effectively split the vote and help an establishment moderate. Rand was uniting the libertarian and religious wings; that is what needs to be done.