Is Ted Cruz undermining Rand Paul?

Natural Citizen, I tend to agree. Rand has let me down lately by claiming he is not for ending the war on drugs and thinks libertarians just want to smoke pot and roll around in the mud. I was very disappointed to here him say those things. Can you imagine his father uttering those words? Ron Paul was such a great orator for expressing liberty. He never would compromise his principles for cheap soundbites which betray people who actually believe in the cause. I have tended to support Rand and maybe unfairly give himt he benefit of the doubt because of the respect and admiration I have had for his father for a long time. I don't know though, Rand lately may drive me to Gary Johnson.
 
Gary Johnson absolutely sucked as a candidate. Rand is better than him. Rand occasionally disappoints me, but he's much more libertarian in general than Gary is.

In 2012 I would have voted for Johnson, I don't know if I could anymore, its like the lesser of five evils instead of the lesser of two. Does that really make it any better?

On the other hand, even though Gary sucked, he still sucked A LOT LESS than the others.
 
Natural Citizen, I tend to agree. Rand has let me down lately by claiming he is not for ending the war on drugs and thinks libertarians just want to smoke pot and roll around in the mud.

I don't really care too much about that stuff as much as other issues (not saying it isn't important because it is) although I've been watching the debate on legalization just because of the agribusiness GMO giants who are waiting in the shadows to come in and monopolize on it should it happen.
 
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So I take it we have found Cruz's long form birth certificate then? And, more importantly, his mothers?
 
they praise rand in order to trash cruz.

so cruz is helping rand a lot. but not on purpose.
Agreed. If I were to describe Cruz in one word for how he's impacting Rand's potential 2016 run, it'd be "insulation".

Take this article for example (pulled randomly from Google News but you see this kind of stuff all the time):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...blican-party-has-finally-broken-bad-for-good/

If it weren't for Cruz, Rand's picture would be there as the representative of the "wacko wing".
 
Agreed. If I were to describe Cruz in one word for how he's impacting Rand's potential 2016 run, it'd be "insulation".

Take this article for example (pulled randomly from Google News but you see this kind of stuff all the time):
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...blican-party-has-finally-broken-bad-for-good/

If it weren't for Cruz, Rand's picture would be there as the representative of the "wacko wing".


But what if Cruz isn't helping Rand look moderate and not from the "wacko wing"? It seems to me like it could actually hurt Rand because he will be thrown in with Cruz through association and will have a difficult time seeming as though he is not from the "wacko wing". In other words, assuming Rand will look moderate next to Cruz may be a very big miscalculation because if the "wacko wing" as you say is a liability politically then the more Cruz alienates people the more it will hurt Rand for being tied with him. Oh how I wish Dr. Ron Paul would just run again.
 
I just can't get around how it seems to me that Cruz watched the Ron Paul movement and the popularity Rand gave from standwithrand and just saw his opening. I think to myself maybe I'm just overthinking but I don't think so. It seems like that is actually what is happening. Very difficult for me to believe someone who is so tied in with statist George W. Bush for so long truly cares about liberty. I think he is using us to be honest. Is it cynical? Yes, but haven't we come to expect that from these politicians?
 
The Following looks like more proof Ted Cruz is not trying to help Rand but indeed may be undermining him. We should call attention to what is happening in our midst so we don't become pawns like suckers.

From ABC News: 5 Signs Senator Cruz Will Run For President in 2016 http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/5-signs-sen-ted-cruz-will-run-for-president-in-2016/

Sen. Ted Cruz will be a guest on ABC News’ “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” this Sunday. The Texas senator is a rising star in the Republican Party and thought to be a possible presidential candidate in 2016. With an impressive resume – degrees from Princeton and Harvard Law, first Hispanic solicitor general of Texas, youngest solicitor general in the history of the United States – and a particular skill for rhetoric (he’s also a former national debate champion) Cruz is definitely a politician to watch this Sunday and in general.
Here are five signs that this fiery first-term senator is eyeing a 2016 presidential run:
1) Trips 1, 2 and 3 to Iowa. Cruz has been in the Senate for less than a year, but he’s already made two trips to Iowa, with a third one scheduled in October. Lawmakers rarely wind up in Iowa by accident, and they certainly don’t wind up there on three separate occasions in less than 12 months. For the the conservative Cruz, the state known for fried butter and the first electoral event in the nation would be a key piece of his presidential primary puzzle. The state boasts a strong and involved evangelical base to whom Cruz appeals, and retail politicking is a key to success – a strength of the one-time Ivy League debate champion.
2) That other trip to New Hampshire. In between those trips to Iowa and, of course, to his home state of Texas, Cruz found time to make it up to New Hampshire, the first-in-the-nation primary state (Iowa holds a caucus, and both states are very particular about this language). In August, Cruz spoke at a fundraiser for the New Hampshire Republican State Committee. Cruz’s libertarian streak appeals to a “live free or die” mentality popular in the Granite State and, again, his skills at retail politicking would certainly come in handy in the small New England state.
3) Goodbye to that pesky Canadian citizenship. Cruz has one potential roadblock to his candidacy: He was actually born in Canada. The Constitution doesn’t set that many restrictions on who can run for president. One just needs to be over the age of 35, have lived in the U.S. at least 14 years, and be a natural born citizen. What exactly is a natural born citizen? Good question. The constitution doesn’t define it. But the definitions include an individual born abroad to American parents. Cruz’s mother was from Delaware and so, under this definition, he would be qualified to run. Cruz has made a point of clarifying said qualification, and in August he even went so far as to renounce his Canadian citizenship after reportedly learning that he had dual citizenship.
4) Oh yeah, and that trip to South Carolina. Seriously, this guy is racking up the frequent flyer miles. In early May, Cruz spoke at the Silver Elephant Dinner in South Carolina, the state that holds the first in the South. The annual fundraising dinner is hosted by the state Republican Party and has featured many big Republican names including Ronald Reagan. Cruz has hit the first three voting states in the presidential primary. Is there another way to interpret all that travel?
5) His own language on the subject. The final indicator of Cruz’s intentions for political tea-leaf readers is his own purposely vague rhetoric on the matter. When asked by ABC NewsJonathan Karl if he was planning to run in 2016, Cruz gave a classically evasive response. “I’m not focused on the politics,” he said. “I’ve been in the Senate all of seven months. The last office I was elected to was student council.” Avoid direct answers is presidential politics 101.
 
Is anyone else concerned about this like I am? I was thinking this when watching some of Cruz's filibuster, even though of course I agreed with him bashing Obamacare. At first I thought it was just me but then realized I'm sure some other people are thinking this right now. Other people who have followed the movement and see how these things tend to go and how characters like to come around to talk the talk and get money or e-mail lists or whatever but then are just as much statist. Cruz's deep connection to George W. Bush should be a real danger sign we should heed.
 
No he's helping Rand. Cruz is taking all the heat and makes Rand look moderate and electable without Rand changing his position.
 
No he's helping Rand. Cruz is taking all the heat and makes Rand look moderate and electable without Rand changing his position.

You could be right. I'm not sure though for a couple reasons. 1) If Ted Cruz runs for president in 2016 he may split the liberty movement which ensures Christie gets the nomination. 2) If the premise is Cruz looks crazy and extreme, Rand will be hurt if he is pinned to Cruz. So rather than looking moderate by comparison he will seem extreme by association
 
The Following looks like more proof Ted Cruz is not trying to help Rand but indeed may be undermining him. We should call attention to what is happening in our midst so we don't become pawns like suckers.

From ABC News: 5 Signs Senator Cruz Will Run For President in 2016 http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/09/5-signs-sen-ted-cruz-will-run-for-president-in-2016/

Sen. Ted Cruz will be a guest on ABC News’ “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” this Sunday. The Texas senator is a rising star in the Republican Party and thought to be a possible presidential candidate in 2016. With an impressive resume – degrees from Princeton and Harvard Law, first Hispanic solicitor general of Texas, youngest solicitor general in the history of the United States – and a particular skill for rhetoric (he’s also a former national debate champion) Cruz is definitely a politician to watch this Sunday and in general.
Here are five signs that this fiery first-term senator is eyeing a 2016 presidential run:

3) Goodbye to that pesky Canadian citizenship. Cruz has one potential roadblock to his candidacy: He was actually born in Canada. The Constitution doesn’t set that many restrictions on who can run for president. One just needs to be over the age of 35, have lived in the U.S. at least 14 years, and be a natural born citizen. What exactly is a natural born citizen? Good question. The constitution doesn’t define it. But the definitions include an individual born abroad to American parents. Cruz’s mother was from Delaware and so, under this definition, he would be qualified to run. Cruz has made a point of clarifying said qualification, and in August he even went so far as to renounce his Canadian citizenship after reportedly learning that he had dual citizenship.

He has presented zero proof that his mother born in Delaware at all.

Did "My mother said so" cut it for Obama?
 
He's helping Rand by making him seem reasonable.

You know...I just thought about it and you're right. A couple of weeks ago I had this argument with my (ex) mother-in-law over Ted Cruz. Actually I told her that I know little about him but I agreed with him that there were problems with Obamacare. Now why did I have to go and say that? (I finally got the upper hand when she had to grudgingly admit that the AFL-CIO is now against Obamacare.) Anyway, it's probably good that Rand doesn't have to take the lead on everything.
 
He has presented zero proof that his mother born in Delaware at all.

Did "My mother said so" cut it for Obama?

You know, if Ted Cruz runs for the GOP nomination the birthers will have to either come out against him are start cooking up some crow.
 
You could be right. I'm not sure though for a couple reasons. 1) If Ted Cruz runs for president in 2016 he may split the liberty movement which ensures Christie gets the nomination. 2) If the premise is Cruz looks crazy and extreme, Rand will be hurt if he is pinned to Cruz. So rather than looking moderate by comparison he will seem extreme by association

Nah, If Rand wins the first 2 states Cruz will drop out and endorse Rand. If Cruz somehow wins, Rand would endorse him. Both won't go deep in the primary. GOP primaries boil down to an establishment candidate and a conservative alternative after the first few states.
 
Nah, If Rand wins the first 2 states Cruz will drop out and endorse Rand. If Cruz somehow wins, Rand would endorse him. Both won't go deep in the primary. GOP primaries boil down to an establishment candidate and a conservative alternative after the first few states.

And then the Democrat wins.
 
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And then the Democrat wins.

Possible. Hillary would be tough to beat unless Rand and Cruz grow a vagina. They got the first black president, the first woman will be quite tempting for low information voters.
 
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