To make Ryan look super reasonable and make Ryan the hero with the with this budget deal.
Ryan is suddenly 'the man who can get things done'.
Is Ted Cruz undermining Rand Paul?
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To make Ryan look super reasonable and make Ryan the hero with the with this budget deal.
Ryan is suddenly 'the man who can get things done'.
mosquitobite
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I can see that point of view, but they had to know it was going to help Cruz with the Republican base.
Now, their strategy may have been that Ryan would win with moderates/independents, but it haven't seen that play out.
And which group do they need to impress for 2016? Most independents don't vote in the primaries.
Now, their strategy may have been that Ryan would win with moderates/independents, but it haven't seen that play out.
And which group do they need to impress for 2016? Most independents don't vote in the primaries.
Understood, but my point was I don't see the big GOP donors throwing tons of money to Ryan when you have Christie or possibly a bush in the race. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see Ryan raising that kind of money.
libertygold
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I think it is all about the GOP establishment deciding on if they want to get behind Christie or Jeb Bush at this point. Cruz is very close to the Bush family so that could be an indication. Even if Jeb Bush decides not to run, he may at least just be keeping the option open. Should he run, he would want the liberty movement weakened. This is just the reality of how politics works.
Christie? VP? I think his ego is to big to be anyone's VP. I think he's been eyeing the presidency ever since he was walking arm n arm with Obama.
libertygold
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Exactly my thought. Rich, you continue to be spot on.
mosquitobite
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I am guessing the establishment is playing for a "tea party" style VP.
cruz or ryan maybe
cruz or ryan maybe
Id say this is correct, and IMO it would be Cruz not Ryan who they'd be likely to pick due to them knowing Cruz will go along with their hawkish foreign policy. I think they know they'd need a perceived tea party type to pull in the tea party base to combine the establishment anti establishment vote. Cruz has been playing this card the whole time while walking in Rand's shadow the whole time. If you think for a minute from their point of view they'd believe a Christie/Cruz ticket would give them the best shot at winning cause you know they'd never offer Rand that position because they know Rand is the real deal while Cruz is a wolf in sheeps clothing. This to me makes perfect sense and many others here, but many here still seem to think Cruz is the real deal when in reality this is the role he's playing to not only derail Rand but help them take back the white house. But their still gonna lose cause indys IMO still aren't sold on him because he hasn't been as outspoken as Rand on foreign policy and civil liberties. My hope is the Ron/Rand folks figure this out before its to late..
And oh for the one poster to say Cruz got up and walked out while Castro gave his speech well hell. I would to knowing my father was a big supporter of Castro back in the day. This is called giving the appearance if distancing himself from the commies. his father used to support. I'm telling ya if they go this route and Cruz turns out to be the snake I believe him to be that Ron and Rand run independent and throw a spoke up their arse ..
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libertygold
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I don't think Ryan would be the running mate for two consecutive presidential cycles. Is there any precedent for a ticket losing and then the running mate on that ticket being chosen four years later to be the running mate on another ticket?
Exactly, if Ryan runs and don't win he's no ones running mate.
libertygold
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Precisely. Paul Ryan will probably run for president, but he isn't going to be anyone's running mate. Christie can also never be anyone's running mate. His personality and political persona is top spot or nothing. Candidates for president do not want to be overshadowed by a running mate who has a stronger personality and appeal to the press.
libertygold
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Right on the money again. I think people who don't see this have not really studied the history of politics.
If you can't play ball as a running mate, you are in the wrong party.
CPUd
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Hendricks
But it was 8 years later.
A couple other similar cases (regular contenders) are William Jennings Bryan and Adlai Stevenson around the same time period.
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RonPaulMall
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If you think the establishment GOP has any clue at winning over voters, you haven't been paying attention the past decade. This was not some conspiracy to help Ted Cruz. They hate Ted Cruz. Now, they probably hate Cruz's personality and methods more than has ideology, while with Rand they hate his ideology more than his methods and personality, but for the most part they everything about both guys.
Ted Cruz is a viable candidate for President already. He doesn't need the establishment's help for that. And he is not the establishment's choice. They want somebody like Ryan or Christie or Rubio. Now obviously the establishment would want as many conservatives running as possible, as that dilutes the conservative vote, but that doesn't mean they are pulling the strings. Rand and Cruz are neck in neck #1 and #2 in terms of overall popularity among the Republican base. If either one has any inclination to run for President, they will, not because the establishment thinks it strategically advantageous, but because they'd have a great chance of winning.
Best thing (and only) thing Rand can do to neutralize Ted Cruz is be the better candidate. Bitching and moaning about Cruz or pretending he's some giant conspiracy theory only hurts our cause. People that we need to win the GOP nomination like Ted Cruz. Trying to convince them not to like Ted Cruz will only make them not trust us. Our focus needs to be not on badmouthing Cruz, but making them like Rand better.
You're right, but I don't see it as that. I think someone like a Christie or Bush would look down on a Paul Ryan thinking they're above him. That's not to say if the ptb TOLD them to giving them a role similar to the power Cheney held while W was in office they wouldn't do it, but in all likelihood I personally don't see that happening unless a Cheney type role was offered. However I don't see that happening.
Well, you're right on just about everything imo. I don't really think or look at it as some kind of conspiracy that the establishment is using Cruz to take away potential Rand supporters because both republicans and democrats in the past have used strategies such as this to help their pick as president. I remember the democrats doing this to Howard Dean in 2004.
In Rand's case if you look back over the last 6 months or so at the chain of events that lead to him almost hitting the 30 percent range in Iowa to where he's at now it's hard not to see how the establishment used Cruz to stymie Rand's momentum from surging into the stratosphere. I don't see it so much as a conspiracy, not at all. I'd call it political maneuvering if anything. If you go back and look at the polls before Cruz was added that was when Rand had his largest leads in early states and national polls. After Cruz was thrown into the mix that's when Rand's momentum was brought to a halt. If you remember, Graham and McCain had been attacking Rand constantly to no avail. They then used big dog Christie to attack him, but that didn't work either if anything only make Rand look like the real frontrunner being attacked by all these people. During the Christie debacle was about the same time they started putting Cruz into the polls and they finally got a bite going this route instead of attacking him with their dogs. That's when I think they realized to stop attacking him and simply let Cruz peel away his support by using conservative outlets like Drudge to make Cruz a household name, while at the same time posting only the articles that would bring Rand's positives down and negatives up. This was apparent just recently when Drudge posted Rand's response to the 4th amendment ruling while not mentioning his economic freedom zone idea. The economic freedom zone idea would greatly cause Rand's positives to go up, and possibly negatives down. However, to republicans the other story about the 4th amendment would more likely cause Rand's negatives to go up and not help his positives any except for those that are independent or supporters he already has. Not everything is a conspiracy just political maneuvering to neutralize a threat. Certainly wouldn't be the first time this has happened.
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Just went to drudge and the guy finally took down Cruz's comments on the Duck boys. Reckon he thought 4 days was enough, as if Cruz has anything to do with those folks, but damn I'm sure drudge let Phil know that Cruz supports them as would Rand obviously.
But to people like this as RonPaulMall said we gotta make sure they know Rand is the better candidate and why. Cruz to me would be the type to ask for tolerance to Christians, but not anyone else. While Rand on the other hand would be the only guy in Washington actually concerned about everyone's free speech not just Christians. That seems to be to me anyway the type of people the Robertson's are. Cruz would be more of theocrat which I don't think a guy like Phil would be. If educated properly on Rand I could see him being a Rand supporter, but the conservative outlets will make damn sure that Cruz is the Christian crusader..
Better hope Phil don't come out with an endorsement when the time comes, shit fire...
But to people like this as RonPaulMall said we gotta make sure they know Rand is the better candidate and why. Cruz to me would be the type to ask for tolerance to Christians, but not anyone else. While Rand on the other hand would be the only guy in Washington actually concerned about everyone's free speech not just Christians. That seems to be to me anyway the type of people the Robertson's are. Cruz would be more of theocrat which I don't think a guy like Phil would be. If educated properly on Rand I could see him being a Rand supporter, but the conservative outlets will make damn sure that Cruz is the Christian crusader..
Better hope Phil don't come out with an endorsement when the time comes, shit fire...
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libertygold
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There are plenty of examples of regular contenders running again (Nixon, Romney, Reagan, etc.) But in modern times has anyone ever been the running mate in two consecutive cycles? Answer is no. Each cycle is its own fresh contest and they don't want anything to do with a past losing ticket. Also, each nominee views the choice of running mate as their first chance to put their own stamp on things.
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