Is Social Security Welfare?

[truelies]

For 70 years SS has been presented to four generations of Americans as an insurance program. Now it may well be that the politicians were committing fraud all along but it would be unjust to chance the goal posts for folks for whom it is to late in life to make other arrangements. Still the younger generation caught by the scheme is also being harmed by the taxes.

My Solution-

1) Immediately end the 6.2% tax for employees and the 12.4% tax for the self employed. Corporations would continue to pay the 6.2% tax which would be extended to 100% oc corporate payroll including perks, bonuses and stock options.

2) Give current taxpayers over age 60 the option of receiving SS under the current rules OR a lump sum payout of their accrued 'contributions' plus interest to be calculated at T-bill rates for the appropriate years. Payout to be made in 10 equal yearly installments. Payments to be funded thru the medium of treasury notes in lieu of federal reserve notes. So banks no more TARP for at least 10 years. Treasury notes to be backed by the public land assets of the USA.

3) Current taxpayers age 30 - 60 to receive a lump sum payout of their accrued 'contributions' plus interest to be calculated at T-bill rates for the appropriate years. Payout to be made in 10 equal yearly installments starting in 10 years or at age 67 whichever is earlier.

4) Current taxpayers under age 30- $10,000 T-bill plus interest which accrues payable at age 60

 

[UpperDecker]

I'm not suggesting that anyone try to sell that.

But what about all the people who are now working, or are not even old enough to be working yet, that will have to pay off the previous generation. Aren't the older generation saying **** you to them? The point is the money was spent. It wasn't supposed to be, but people failed to stop them from spending it. Why is it ok to then put it on the national credit card for their grandchildren to pay?

This is a very good point. It is a fuck you to the younger generation that those who will actually get money from social security aren't willing to budge to help them out. They are taking the money from the younger generation who aren't going to get social security, which is crap situation.

 

[truelies]

So to all those people who worked their whole lives and had 15% of their income confiscated by the federal government -- fuck em all, go live with your kids?

........................................But attitudes like the one you have - good luck selling that.

Captain I think you will find that the SS is welfare crowd are largely the ungrateful children of those who paid the SS taxes. Children who feel the need to be excuse from their student loans and who will never admit that their education from kindie on has been by their Rules - 'welfare'.

 

[truelies]

................ They are taking the money from the younger generation who ..................QUOTE]

was given life and sustinence for 18 - 25 years by the older generation. Pay that back with interest & there will be no need for SS.

 

[dinosaur]

Captain I think you will find that the SS is welfare crowd are largely the ungrateful children of those who paid the SS taxes. Children who feel the need to be excuse from their student loans and who will never admit that their education from kindie on has been by their Rules - 'welfare'.

Attack the argument, not my character. I have never defaulted on a loan, and have paid into the system for 20 years. I don't want anything back for that. I just want us to stop spending more than we have for the sake of the generation after me.

 

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

................ They are taking the money from the younger generation who ..................

was given life and sustinence for 18 - 25 years by the older generation. Pay that back with interest & there will be no need for SS.

Some things cannot be repaid.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

I'm not suggesting that anyone try to sell that.

But what about all the people who are now working, or are not even old enough to be working yet, that will have to pay off the previous generation. Aren't the older generation saying **** you to them? The point is the money was spent. It wasn't supposed to be, but people failed to stop them from spending it. Why is it ok to then put it on the national credit card for their grandchildren to pay?

It's not we need to phase it out, which is why I liked Paul's proposal for it. But there are so many other areas of the budget that can be cut before we say to the 85 year old widow living in a one bedroom apt that the check she gets every month in gone. We're Americans, we clean up our mistakes the right way.

 

[erowe1]

was given life and sustinence for 18 - 25 years by the older generation. Pay that back with interest & there will be no need for SS.

Exactly. Or, better yet, reverse the order. Get rid of SS, and let people decide for themselves how to go about helping their parents. Cut out the middle man of the government.

 

[erowe1]

People were sold on the lie that it is just their own money that they are getting back.

When were they sold on this? And who sold it to them? The law never told them this. I doubt that any official government literature did. The people who have been spewing this propaganda have been the AARP and others of their ilk. The American taxpayer has no duty to make good on those make-believe promises.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

Exactly. Or, better yet, reverse the order. Get rid of SS, and let people decide for themselves how to go about helping their parents. Cut out the middle man of the government.

For folks like myself who continue to earn an income after retirement and/or draw off a pension or annuity, elimination of SS equates to a massive tax increase. Personally (and I know many folks like myself that aren't at the income level I am at) we pay more to the gov't in taxes than we get in SS payments annually and for others its a wash.

 

[UpperDecker]

................ They are taking the money from the younger generation who ..................


Some things cannot be repaid.

Agreed.

I don't find it necessary to paint those against SS as somehow ungrateful brats. The younger generations are getting screwed when they are losing out on all of this money that they will never get back while nobody is willing to compromise. You can't touch SS with out people freaking out, but something has to be done.

 

[erowe1]

So to all those people who worked their whole lives and had 15% of their income confiscated by the federal government -- fuck em all, go live with your kids?

Why do you have more of a problem with what you describe here than you do with having some third party enter the relationship and forcibly take money from their kids and give it to them?

 

[dinosaur]

It's not we need to phase it out, which is why I liked Paul's proposal for it. But there are so many other areas of the budget that can be cut before we say to the 85 year old widow living in a one bedroom apt that the check she gets every month in gone. We're Americans, we clean up our mistakes the right way.

But what is really the right way? Do the people who allowed the money to be spent bear no responsibility? The people who will be paying it off were not even around to protest when it was being spent.

 

[loveableteddybear]

The fact that they were taxed on their income for the SS program all those years made it difficult for many to save adequately for retirement.

This is lie number 1. People who didn't save weren't going to save, as simple as that.

 

[erowe1]

I don't find it necessary to paint those against SS as somehow ungrateful brats.

That would be the irony of ironies if anyone tried to do that...."How can you be so greedy that you won't let me take your money and give it to someone else?!"

It's the opposite. The people fighting to keep SS are greedy (they're the ones thinking they're entitled to other peoples' money), and they need to be called out at every opportunity. This needs to happen until SS isn't the third rail of politics any more, but instead is so unpopular that people would be ashamed to defend it.

 

[ClydeCoulter]

This is lie number 1. People who didn't save weren't going to save, as simple as that.

That really makes we want to say FU!

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

But what is really the right way? Do the people who allowed the money to be spent bear no responsibility? The people who will be paying it off were not even around to protest when it was being spent.

The societal impact of the elimination of SS will be huge. There are a lot of people who need the payment to live, they will be screwed. Folks like myself and those who saved for retirement will in essence be getting a massive tax increase by the elimination of the payments. Where do you think that extra 50K per year is going to go?

You see what I am saying here. Many people who receive SS pay taxes still, or the SS payments wash out their tax liability. We aren't living large because of the gov't check. All it does for many is offset the taxes on their pensions, annuities and other investments.

 

[CaptLouAlbano]

This is lie number 1. People who didn't save weren't going to save, as simple as that.

That's bullshit.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

This is lie number 1. People who didn't save weren't going to save, as simple as that.

And you know this....how, exactly?

 

[erowe1]

Folks like myself and those who saved for retirement will in essence be getting a massive tax increase by the elimination of the payments.

This is the kind of propaganda that we need to defeat.

When the government stops taking money from someone else and giving it to you, that's not an increase of your taxes. It's not taking anything at all from you. It's leaving the money with the people who earned it. Those payments never were yours.