Is Social Security Welfare?

[helmuth_hubener]

A 20-something pothead and a single mother in the projects are quite different than a 65+ year old, with the older the age obviously the less likely able to perform any worthwhile labor.

I agree with the first part of your sentence, and would only change the second part to say the opposite. People become more productive with age. The 65 or 70 or 75 year-old is probably tremendously more productive than these other two younger individuals. Age brings with it experience, skills, and if you do it right: mastery. You don't have that right out of the gate.

Many people who retire at age 65 are stopping just when they're at the peak of their powers. The SS encourages this decision.

Couldn't say it better myself.

Those who think that ending the SS = starving old people need to get their head in the game. Concentrate! As bmx042 pointed out, there are a plethora of gov't handout schemes to dole money and things to the poor. If an elderly person joins the ranks of the poor because of the end of the SS, they would qualify for many such programs. They can apply for and receive: free food (food stamps), free housing (Section 8, and SHE-Supportive Housing for the Elderly), free electricity and gas in the winter (laws preventing the utilities from being shut off for non-payment), free prescription drugs (Medicare Part D), free transportation (gov't transportation programs), free education (Adult Education Grants), free home remodeling (Weatherization Assistance for Low Income Persons, Very Low Income Housing Repair Loans and Grants, etc.), free job training (WIA) and of course free cash (EITC, Title XX, Special Programs for the Aging, and a whole plethora of others). There are currently 126 separate federal government programs designed to fight poverty. (source)

In fact this would be a very feasible "transition program" (Note: CaptLouAlbano, you are forbidden from reading this, since you don't care what I think): end the SS, but continue all these other welfare programs for a short time. The few elderly people who become actually poor as a result of no more SS gravy train just hop on board the welfare train instead. The vast majority of the elderly are wealthy, and so they will not qualify, and so they're just out of luck. They'll have to pay their own way. This would seem to resolve 100% of the concern about starving, dying elderly folks. And for a tiny fraction of the cost of any other "transition plan" I've seen in this thread.

 

[truelies]

What you are advocating is taking money out of the incomes of poor working people, 100% of whom need that money.................

yeah well the current about to retire generation was in that same tight place between their growing kids and their own aging parents 35 years ago and managed to handle both inter-generational responsibilities. Now your whiny sort comes along too selfish/lazy to raise kids (THAT BTW is the principal reason SSI won't be their for ya- you are consuming your seed corn in the present) AND ya wanna pocket what your parents have earned ALSO. Worthless greedy little bastard.
/

 

[erowe1]

yeah well the current about to retire generation was in that same tight place between their growing kids and their own aging parents 35 years ago and managed to handle both inter-generational responsibilities. Now your whiny sort comes along too selfish/lazy to raise kids (THAT BTW is the principal reason SSI won't be their for ya- you are consuming your seed corn in the present) AND ya wanna pocket what your parents have earned ALSO. Worthless greedy little bastard.
/

How dare I be so greedy to want to decide how my money gets used rather than to let you decide that for me.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

yeah well the current about to retire generation was in that same tight place between their growing kids and their own aging parents 35 years ago and managed to handle both inter-generational responsibilities. Now your whiny sort comes along too selfish/lazy to raise kids (THAT BTW is the principal reason SSI won't be their for ya- you are consuming your seed corn in the present) AND ya wanna pocket what your parents have earned ALSO. Worthless greedy little bastard.
/

Such anger! Such hate! But that's OK, truelies. We've got nothing but love for you! In the long run, truelies, we will be helping you by freeing you from your wardship. You won't feel like that at the time. We can see that right here in this thread. No, you will yell and curse at us, throw a tantrum, and claim that we must hate you , or we would never be so cruel. But years later, you will probably thank us. We loved you enough to cut you off. We had the courage to do what was best, unswayed by your outrage and your demands.

 

[truelies]

Such anger! Such hate! ..............................

neither or anger nor hate little man. You are not even hardly worth that much influence on my BP. Just a healthy dose of contempt for whiny obligation dodging pissants. Still livin' in mum's basement ain'tcha.

 

[erowe1]

neither or anger nor hate little man. You are not even hardly worth that much influence on my BP. Just a healthy dose of contempt for whiny obligation dodging pissants. Still livin' in mum's basement ain'tcha.

"Obligation dodging" implies that if the only way a person can meet their obligations is if the government forces them to. If you really think that, then why even be here?

 

[truelies]

How dare I be so greedy to want to decide how my money gets used rather than to let you decide that for me.

Its not me kid. Its the sum total of consent of the governed in this society. Ya don't like that? You can ALWAYD leave to find a more acceptable society by your lights. You are even free to stay here & impotently bitch cause you're gonna be paying those SSI taxes for a looonnnggggg time. I hope though in oh say 2040 you will have the courage of your convictions to forego ever taking a check of that tainted money. LMAO

 

[erowe1]

Its not me kid. Its the sum total of consent of the governed in this society. Ya don't like that? You can ALWAYD leave to find a more acceptable society by your lights. You are even free to stay here & impotently bitch cause you're gonna be paying those SSI taxes for a looonnnggggg time. I hope though in oh say 2040 you will have the courage of your convictions to forego ever taking a check of that tainted money. LMAO

You really believe this? The governed consent to everything the government does?

It seems to me that imposing something on the governed without their consent is precisely what you're defending.

 

[truelies]

What's your source for this claim? Retirees are the wealthiest age group next to those who are just about to retire.

....................................

Here ya go sonny-http://www.ebri.org/pdf/notespdf/EBRI_Notes_05-2007.pdf

 

[erowe1]

Here ya go sonny-http://www.ebri.org/pdf/notespdf/EBRI_Notes_05-2007.pdf

I was asking about the claim that 90% of seniors get more than half their income from SS.

 

[erowe1]

Here ya go sonny-http://www.ebri.org/pdf/notespdf/EBRI_Notes_05-2007.pdf

I was asking about the claim that 90% of seniors get more than half their income from SS.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

neither or anger nor hate little man. You are not even hardly worth that much influence on my BP. Just a healthy dose of contempt for whiny obligation dodging pissants. Still livin' in mum's basement ain'tcha.

What "obligation dodging"? Just because politicians made you a promise on the backs of other people doesn't mean they are obliged to do anything. You ought to be after the politicians for the money you believe you're owed instead of innocent parties like helmuth.


And disagreeing with inter-generational theft is "whining" in your world? Interesting how you and your colleagues will complain about theft when the FED does it for the regime, but when the government steals from others for you, it's just dandy.

ETA: true parental love is selfless. It is its own reward and payment.

 

[truelies]

I was asking about the claim that 90% of seniors get more than half their income from SS.

Try reading the .pdf kid. You CAN read, yes? You will find that the numbers are roughly as I said and that no SSI is economic wipeout for most over 65's.

 

[erowe1]

Try reading the .pdf kid. You CAN read, yes? You will find that the numbers are roughly as I said and that no SSI is economic wipeout for most over 65's.

I didn't see anything in there supporting what you said. Was there some point in the pdf where they claim that 90% of seniors get more than half their income from SS?

Also, is it me, or do you call people names in every single post?

 

[truelies]

What "obligation dodging"? ...........................

you can always leave the USA. Until then you get to pay SSI. Your parents provided for you & now turnabout really is fair play.

When you whiners step up & return every cent plus interest the older generation has spent on ya, THEN and ONLY THEN it will be time to talk about SSI.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Try reading the .pdf kid. You CAN read, yes? You will find that the numbers are roughly as I said and that no SSI is economic wipeout for most over 65's.

What say you about my solution? "As of today (whichever day this is enacted), everyone who has had money stolen from them for SS will get their payments directly from the pockets/bank accounts of the politicians at every level in a lump sum. Thereafter, no SS payments will be collected or handed out" This is the only remotely fair way to solve the problem

 

[erowe1]

a sort who could care less about the elderly

fool.

your whiny sort ....Worthless greedy little bastard.

little man. ... whiny obligation dodging pissants.

kid.

sonny

kid.

you whiners

Trav? Rev9?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

you can always leave the USA. Until the you get to pay SSI. Your parents provided for you & now turnabout really is fair play.

When you whiners step up & return every cent plus interest the older generation has spent on ya, THEN and ONLY THEN it will be time to talk about SSI.

Yes, and you can leave the USA too and live in a welfare state in Europe somewhere. Why don't you do it? Leave if you don't love it, after all. I don't owe my parents anything just by virtue of existing. To pretend otherwise is just an attempt to justify intergenerational theft. Somehow, people managed to live to old age without SSI from the beginning of America till the 20th century.

(btw, did you know Rush Limbaugh's father returned his SS checks because he believed it to be theft-and rightly didn't believe he was owed welfare? Too bad more people don't have that sort of character anymore-even Rush III, the radio guy )

 

[erowe1]

Your parents provided for you & now turnabout really is fair play.

I'll go along with that. But what's that got to do with the federal government?

 

[Origanalist]

you can always leave the USA. Until the you get to pay SSI. Your parents provided for you & now turnabout really is fair play.

When you whiners step up & return every cent plus interest the older generation has spent on ya, THEN and ONLY THEN it will be time to talk about SSI.

Get outta here with that shit. I'm not going to call it welfare, but it should be ended, period. The nanny state has to end, all forms of it.

When people reach adulthood they should be responsible for themselves. I don't expect my kids, or grandkids, to return anything to me. If the government would quit taking that money, people would be forced to assume responsibility for themselves. Which they should. Period. I don't know how to end this disaster, but it has to end and while I don't care for some of the rhetoric about "welfare" the points are valid.