Is Rand our man or not?

[LibertyEagle]

It may sound dumb to others but, the fact that rand endorsed Romney and bailed on his father before the primaries officially ended wont ever sit well with me. And i strongly feel that's what will be the i gotcha that the establishment will put in his face. He bailed on his father, whats stopping him from bailing on you. Its not like Ron was some father who wasn't part of his life and didn't pay child support.

Now people will argue it was a political move. Well lately i see too many "Political" moves by Rand. More of the same.

No one but RON PAUL.

By that time, Ron himself had already bailed and sent out an email about it.

 

[LibertyEagle]

How old are you?
How many children do you have?

I'm not in it to win 2016.

Ron Paul showed us a change for the next 250 years.

The movement seems hell bent on wiping that glimpse clean from its collective memory and moving forward full steam with the win of a single race.

I'm not sure anyone else can put it in simpler terms than you yourself did right there.

Yes, Ron sure did and I know I am not alone in not losing sight of that. But, we are not going to go from where we are to that utopia overnight, as much many of us want that. The American people have to be led back to liberty. Some have been so propagandized, that they have forgotten; some never knew.

It is my strong opinion that electing Rand would be a HUGE step in getting us there and he has done a darn good job of avoiding the minefields that his father stepped in over and over again.

Then Rand is going to have to do something to light that fire and keep it stoked.
I'm with AF. I support Rand - but he's not exactly inducing paroxysms of enthusiasm.
(Especially when he can't or won't say flat-out that he's opposed to things like the minimum wage ...)

If he wasn't going to run for President, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But, he is, and I feel confident what he is doing is trying to avoid giving the other side ready-made snippets to make him look like a cold-hearted asshole. You know how elections are. You don't have time to spend even 5 minutes explaining your rationale. It's all about soundbytes. Do you remember how Rand played it when he ran for Senate? Most of the time he would just say when news media would try to get him to say something incriminating, something like... I don't know why people wouldn't want to have their taxes lowered. It really gave them nowhere to go and the opposition didn't get a soundbyte to hit him with in campaign ads.

I detest politics. But, that is what is going on here. I feel very confident of that.

Take a broader look at what Rand has done since he's been in the Senate. Think about the conversations in this country that would not have been had, had he not been there and not been in the committees he has been in. He has done a great deal to change the conversation in this country. Everyday people are talking about issues that I haven't heard them talk about in so very long.

If Rand would act in the manner that many on these forums want him to act, it might make us cheer, but the rest of America, whose ears are open to him right now, would shut right down. I thought we were smarter than that. It is so depressing sometimes to come on here .

 

[Michael Landon]

I'm fairly certain that I'll never vote for another Republican in my life. The Republican party is controlled by a bunch of Rockefeller liberals who will stop at nothing to eradicate conservatives from the Republican Party.

I'll be voting for either the Libertarian or Constitution Party candidates going forward.

- ML

 

[klamath]

"I'll support him, but not with the fire I did with Ron"

This is what I'm talking about....Were going to need that fire if were going to win the nomination and then beat Hillary.

Having the fire couldn't beat Romney. It could barely even break 10% of the Republican vote.

 

[Occam's Banana]

If he wasn't going to run for President, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But, he is, and I feel confident what he is doing is trying to avoid giving the other side ready-made snippets to make him look like a cold-hearted asshole. You know how elections are. You don't have time to spend even 5 minutes explaining your rationale. It's all about soundbytes. Do you remember how Rand played it when he ran for Senate? Most of the time he would just say when news media would try to get him to say something incriminating, something like... I don't know why people wouldn't want to have their taxes lowered. It really gave them nowhere to go and the opposition didn't get a soundbyte to hit him with in campaign ads.

I detest politics. But, that is what is going on here. I feel very confident of that.

Take a broader look at what Rand has done since he's been in the Senate. Think about the conversations in this country that would not have been had, had he not been there and not been in the committees he has been in. He has done a great deal to change the conversation in this country. Everyday people are talking about issues that I haven't heard them talk about in so very long.

If Rand would act in the manner that many on these forums want him to act, it might make us cheer, but the rest of America, whose ears are open to him right now, would shut right down. I thought we were smarter than that. It is so depressing sometimes to come on here .

I don't disagree - and as gratifying as it would be if he did so, I was NOT demanding that Rand say what I would like to hear him say the way I would like to hear him say it.

That Rand must needs mince words and wrap up everything he says in layers of waffle is as may be - but even granting the necessity of this, it should not be even the slightest bit difficult for anyone around here to understand why this is just NOT going to inspire ardent passions of Ron-Paul-like proportions ...

 

[klamath]

I don't have the drive for Rand that I had in 2007 for RP but then again I wouldn't have the drive for Ron even if he was younger and running again. I would have less drive for Ron than I do now for Rand. There is quite a block of us that would not ever again waste our money or time on another RP campaign. The 2007 magic of the RP campaign is gone forever and for me it was mostly gone in 2012.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I don't disagree - and as gratifying as it would be if he did so, I was NOT demanding that Rand say what I would like to hear him say the way I would like to hear him say it.

That Rand must needs mince words and wrap up everything he says in layers of waffle is as may be - but even granting the necessity of this, it should not be even the slightest bit difficult for anyone around here to understand why this is just NOT going to inspire ardent passions of Ron-Paul-like proportions ...

I know and you have never been one to demand that. Sorry if it sounded that way; I was really speaking to the audience that does, when I said that.

I guess to me, Rand is even more exciting than Ron. Because Rand has a chance, albeit slim; Ron never did. Someone like Rand is what I was praying for; someone who could use the language that others, besides us, would understand. Something, anything, that would get through to them. Honestly, it may already be way too late; I think we are going to have some very tough times in this country. But, maybe, just maybe, he and others like him just might be able to be positioned such that they can do a lot to keep us out of full-fledged world government. I pray so, anyway. If not for me, for my nephews and their children.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I don't have the drive for Rand that I had in 2007 for RP but then again I wouldn't have the drive for Ron even if he was younger and running again. I would have less drive for Ron than I do now for Rand. There is quite a block of us that would not ever again waste our money or time on another RP campaign. The 2007 magic of the RP campaign is gone forever and for me it was mostly gone in 2012.

Yes.

We know.

You've made that very clear, numerous times.

We suck, we're all well aware of that.

Thank you for pointing that out, yet again.

Moving on...

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yes.

We know.

You've made that very clear, numerous times.

We suck, we're all well aware of that.

Thank you for pointing that out, yet again.

Moving on...

He didn't say that at all. In fact, I have seen you express much more quittertarianism than Klamath ever has.

 

[NoOneButPaul]

By that time, Ron himself had already bailed and sent out an email about it.

The part conveniently forgotten...

I think the reason I do not have as much passion for Rand (though I like him, support, and will vote for him - I dunno that i'll donate or volunteer) is that he's now trying to play the system's game so he can beat them in their own system. I personally think it's the wrong way to go. So many people do not vote, do not participate in politics, and do not want any part of the same. Had Rand continued on his father's path he would have gained more of these people and caused more passionate supporters that over the course of many elections would have bred more and more voters (especially as the system crumbles the way the Austrians predict).

I'm not going to say his way of doing things is wrong because it so far it's working on a national scale, but the problem is I don't think he's going to get the extremists who carried Ron in 2008 and 2012. The question boils down to whether or not catering to the right and mainstream will offset the loss of extremists that won't support him.

I suspect when he has to turn into a politician in 2016 a lot of us will come to dislike him because he'll have to play the game and we'll see the extremists lose their nerve when he does.

Then again... they are a driving force... he's playing a real big balancing act.

 

[klamath]

Yes.

We know.

You've made that very clear, numerous times.

We suck, we're all well aware of that.

Thank you for pointing that out, yet again.

Moving on...

Since I am bored I hit the show ignored post button. Yep waste of forefinger effort.

 

[dinosaur]

The part conveniently forgotten...

I think the reason I do not have as much passion for Rand (though I like him, support, and will vote for him - I dunno that i'll donate or volunteer) is that he's now trying to play the system's game so he can beat them in their own system. I personally think it's the wrong way to go. So many people do not vote, do not participate in politics, and do not want any part of the same. Had Rand continued on his father's path he would have gained more of these people and caused more passionate supporters.

I'm not going to say his way of doing things is wrong because it so far is working on a national scale, but the problem is I don't think he's going to get the extremists who carried Ron in 2008 and 2012. The question boils down to whether or not catering to the right and mainstream will offset the loss of extremists that won't support him.

I suspect when he has to turn into a politician in 2016 a lot of us will come to dislike him because he'll have to play the game and we'll see the extremists lose their nerve when he does.

Then again... they are a driving force... he's playing a real big balancing act.

When I hear Rand speak, I hear something different than "catering" and the "balancing act." I see "communicating with" and "bypassing media brainwashing." The brainwashed have to be approached carefully. The "game" that Rand is playing is one of trying to get a message through the media. To do this, he has to avoid the traps of the left-right paradigm. What he is doing is framing issues in a way that bypass this paradigm and prevent people from emotionally reacting to what he says based on their brainwashing. Ron did something similar, but he captured a different audience. The audience that Rand is preaching to is one that we need, and one that I believe shares our values but is a little lost.

I'm every bit as excited about Rand, probably more. I like them both, like both styles. But I will probably give more this time around.

 

[Dogsoldier]

"Having the fire couldn't beat Romney. It could barely even break 10% of the Republican vote. "

The liberty movement grew big time though. Not to mention all the cheating that the Santorum and Romney camps did.

If we had a do over of that last election with the same candidates there is no doubt in my mind we would take at least half the states.

Most of the delegates here that came to our caucus were new to the process and mostly singles that didn't bring anyone with them (me included). Nobody had any experience. Speaking for our area we could easily quadruple our numbers if we had a redo. No question in my mind.

 

[DFF]

Not sure what to think of Rand. He's kind of a Ron Paul/Neocon hybrid. I guess 50% of the old man is better than none though!

 

[cajuncocoa]

Silly question of the night:

Some here worry a lot about the image this board gives to the media and/or future potential Rand supporters with regard to libertarian political positions, conspiracy theories, etc.

Yet, it never seems to concern those same people (in most cases, literally the same people) that the GOP establishment could be lurking when it comes to disclosing how Rand is supposedly "playing their game" or hoodwinking them into thinking he supports one thing when he is really just "one of us."

Question of the night is: WHY?

 

[cajuncocoa]

"Having the fire couldn't beat Romney. It could barely even break 10% of the Republican vote. "

The liberty movement grew big time though. Not to mention all the cheating that the Santorum and Romney camps did.

If we had a do over of that last election with the same candidates there is no doubt in my mind we would take at least half the states.

Most of the delegates here that came to our caucus were new to the process and mostly singles that didn't bring anyone with them (me included). Nobody had any experience. Speaking for our area we could easily quadruple our numbers if we had a redo. No question in my mind.

They say the liberty movement grew...I dunno, I tend to think "they" just changed what it means to be for liberty to make it fit more people. Just my observation.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

I don't have the drive for Rand that I had in 2007 for RP but then again I wouldn't have the drive for Ron even if he was younger and running again. I would have less drive for Ron than I do now for Rand. There is quite a block of us that would not ever again waste our money or time on another RP campaign. The 2007 magic of the RP campaign is gone forever and for me it was mostly gone in 2012.

The people running the show in 2012 are going to be running the show for Rand in 2016.

 

[dinosaur]

Silly question of the night:

Some here worry a lot about the image this board gives to the media and/or future potential Rand supporters with regard to libertarian political positions, conspiracy theories, etc.

Yet, it never seems to concern those same people (in most cases, literally the same people) that the GOP establishment could be lurking when it comes to disclosing how Rand is supposedly "playing their game" or hoodwinking them into thinking he supports one thing when he is really just "one of us."

Question of the night is: WHY?

I think the GOP establishment already knows what is going on. They don't want Rand. They know how the game is played.

 

[klamath]

"Having the fire couldn't beat Romney. It could barely even break 10% of the Republican vote. "

The liberty movement grew big time though. Not to mention all the cheating that the Santorum and Romney camps did.

If we had a do over of that last election with the same candidates there is no doubt in my mind we would take at least half the states.

Most of the delegates here that came to our caucus were new to the process and mostly singles that didn't bring anyone with them (me included). Nobody had any experience. Speaking for our area we could easily quadruple our numbers if we had a redo. No question in my mind.

you are dreaming. RP could NOT even win his home town county let alone his own congressional district. Mitt Romney beat RP by 29 freaking percentage points in Brazoria county. He had over 30 years to get his message to those people and probably had met almost all of them.

 

[klamath]

The people running the show in 2012 are going to be running the show for Rand in 2016.

That maybe true and if I see Rand running a campaign as pathetically as Ron did I will set out another campaign.