Illegal Aliens sue for the right to work in US

[Met Income]

If someone wants to hire another, who is anyone else to stop them? Do private property rights exist or not?

 

[RedStripe]

The right to work, to sell one's labor, should be considered a basic human right by any decent society. We don't strip people of their right to work simply because they've broken the law - otherwise no one would have the right to work because we have all broken laws (and some of us are damn proud of it).

Just because you might think that the laws against crossing imaginary government lines in the sand are super-duper important, most people who are more concerned with reality than some nationalistic fantasy recognize the fact that illegal immigration is the moral and justifiable choice for many impoverished people, and that the laws which restrict it do far more harm to society than the act itself.

 

[Liberty_Tree]

The right to work, to sell one's labor, should be considered a basic human right by any decent society. We don't strip people of their right to work simply because they've broken the law - otherwise no one would have the right to work because we have all broken laws (and some of us are damn proud of it).

Just because you might think that the laws against crossing imaginary government lines in the sand are super-duper important, most people who are more concerned with reality than some nationalistic fantasy recognize the fact that illegal immigration is the moral and justifiable choice for many impoverished people, and that the laws which restrict it do far more harm to society than the act itself.

Our nation has a right to set limits and enforce our laws. Cultures need time to assimilate, and no nation or state -- not even a state with the resources of Texas -- can bear the cost of free mass medical services for hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from another nation or free education for thousands of their youth. We need to be able to differentiate between what we owe a legal guest and what can be expected by someone who has violated our laws.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Our nation has a right to set limits and enforce our laws. Cultures need time to assimilate, and no nation or state -- not even a state with the resources of Texas -- can bear the cost of free mass medical services for hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants from another nation or free education for thousands of their youth. We need to be able to differentiate between what we owe a legal guest and what can be expected by someone who has violated our laws.

There are tens of millions on these programs. Singling out one group based on antiquated notions of Nationalistic feelings is beyond unapproachable. You put the abstract legal rights of an abstract entity that embodies Moral Hazard above the Natural and UNALIEABLE rights of INDIVIDUALS. Disgrace.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I agree, the government shouldn't tell people who to hire, no quotas of any kind should be set up, it would be unconstitutional. However, it is not unconstitutional to establish a naturalization rule and enforce it by deporting illegal immigrants.

Do you realize by implication you are supporting some sort of National ID? You are by also implication supporting necessarily an invasion of privacy. If I do not have these ID cards issued by a Monopoly authority (the State), then I will be forceably ejected from my justly and legitimately acquired property. (I used the example of me being an "illegal" immigrant)


Thomas Jefferson: Law is often but the will of tyrants, and it is anytime it impedes on an individuals natural rights.

 

[YumYum]

+1

Torch! What the Hell happened to you? Did you shave your head?

 

[The Patriot]

Do you realize by implication you are supporting some sort of National ID? You are by also implication supporting necessarily an invasion of privacy. If I do not have these ID cards issued by a Monopoly authority (the State), then I will be forceably ejected from my justly and legitimately acquired property. (I used the example of me being an "illegal" immigrant)


Thomas Jefferson: Law is often but the will of tyrants, and it is anytime it impedes on an individuals natural rights.

I am not asking for any national ID Card. Passport and green card would suffice.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I am not asking for any national ID Card. Passport and green card would suffice.

How are you going to identify a legal citizen, immigrant, or other person, from an illegal?

 

[The Patriot]

How are you going to identify a legal citizen, immigrant, or other person, from an illegal?

ICE raids, when they apply for welfare, when their birthright citizen kids get public services and welfare checks, things like that.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

ICE raids, when they apply for welfare, when their birthright citizen kids get public services and welfare checks, things like that.

You didn't answer the question. Unless you implicitly implied that SS must forever stay. So you support Social Security. It also brings me back to my Natural Law point. Another strike against private property! Are you aware you are arguing against natural rights?

 

[The Patriot]

You didn't answer the question. Unless you implicitly implied that SS must forever stay. So you support Social Security. It also brings me back to my Natural Law point. Another strike against private property! Are you aware you are arguing against natural rights?

No, I want to get rid of social security.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

No, I want to get rid of social security.

Then how are you going to identify illegals and legals alike?! You have to have some sort of national ID, intrusion of privacy, etc.

 

[Lord Xar]

Then how are you going to identify illegals and legals alike?! You have to have some sort of national ID, intrusion of privacy, etc.

Stop playing word games, your desperation to "win" is becoming embarrassing.

Drivers license?
Applying for a job, they check your immigration status?
Applying for school, they check your immigrations status?
Applying for a credit card?
Applying for a bank account?

We all have social security numbers. If you can cross-reference it, you can cut down on a tremendous amount of illegals in the worlplace.

Open borders WITH the welfare state is a death sentence for our Sovereign nation. It is bearing itself out. If you advocate open borders, then you must be a globalist.
And that is the antithesis of individual freedom and liberty IN THESE UNITED STATES.

There is a national database for criminals, is there not? If you are here illegally, you are a criminal.

There are a plethora of ways to validate ones "immigration status" and by you always going off the deep end "Then you support a national id???", shows your intellectual dishonesty regarding the situation.

 

[Lord Xar]

Spoken like a neo-con.

You sound like a FreeRepublicon.

Excuse me, you sound like a baseless communist. Get lost tard. Your agenda is fairly obvious.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Stop playing word games, your desperation to "win" is becoming embarrassing.

Drivers license?
Applying for a job, they check your immigration status?
Applying for school, they check your immigrations status?
Applying for a credit card?
Applying for a bank account?

There is a national database for criminals, is there not? If you are here illegally, you are a criminal.

There are a plethora of ways to validate ones "immigration status" and by you always going off the deep end "Then you support a national id???", shows your intellectual dishonesty regarding the situation.

Whoosh. No one is required to have a drivers license, and many states allow "illegals" to get licenses. Does every single employer check their employees status (Aka, have them show their birth certificate, or work visa)? Nope. How do you fix that? Well, you have to have a National ID system to track those who are legal and you have to intrude into the privacy of the businesses to check if who they have employed are actually legal citizens (By checking their database). How do they do that? Not all illegals are agorists, so they will pay taxes. So the income tax is one way. So the guy is advocating POLICE RAIDS against people who have violated NO ONES RIGHTS. What is tyranny defined again as?

By supporting the foolish notion of invasion of private property you are supporting the Income Tax, National ID databases, and other invasive measures that violate Natural Law.

I think I may have to re-work the saying "The right hates the left more than the State" to "The right hates immigrants and private property more than taxation, invasion of privacy, and tyranny".

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

There is a national database for criminals, is there not? If you are here illegally, you are a criminal.

.

The Law is often but the tyrants will and is so everytime it violates natural rights.

If you sell raw milk you are a criminal, better throw these people in the National Database. I'm sure they'll write a law that says if you aren't obedient to the State then you are a criminal. North (Or was it South) Carolina has all ready.

 

[Lord Xar]

Whoosh. No one is required to have a drivers license, and many states allow "illegals" to get licenses. Does every single employer check their employees status (Aka, have them show their birth certificate, or work visa)? Nope. How do you fix that? Well, you have to have a National ID system to track those who are legal and you have to intrude into the privacy of the businesses to check if who they have employed are actually legal citizens (By checking their database). How do they do that? Not all illegals are agorists, so they will pay taxes. So the income tax is one way. So the guy is advocating POLICE RAIDS against people who have violated NO ONES RIGHTS. What is tyranny defined again as?

By supporting the foolish notion of invasion of private property you are supporting the Income Tax, National ID databases, and other invasive measures that violate Natural Law.

I think I may have to re-work the saying "The right hates the left more than the State" to "The right hates immigrants and private property more than taxation, invasion of privacy, and tyranny".

As it seems your play, you take positions that have so many holes, a mouse would be proud.

Every citizen has a social security number. I mentioned this, did I not? Your social will be cross-referenced for validity. Not hard. Not much more than anything we currently have in place. Just more refined.

Will you catch everyone, no. Will you catch most, yes.

In addition. IF an employer is found to be employing illegals, huge fines. Huge.

They will self-deport.

Listen, if you open border apologists rallied against welfare with such fervor that you do for open borders and the tens upon tens of millions of illegals, and "like it". .. we might be able to end the welfare state. But you, and your ilk, are so open borders that you can never realize the "no welfare state" because the thing you are advocating ie. open borders & its consequences, will breed bigger government, more taxation, and more welfare.

 

[Lord Xar]

The Law is often but the tyrants will and is so everytime it violates natural rights.

If you sell raw milk you are a criminal, better throw these people in the National Database. I'm sure they'll write a law that says if you aren't obedient to the State then you are a criminal. North (Or was it South) Carolina has all ready.

This is what I mean. You are too desperate and grasping at straws. I am surprised you didn't use the "jay walking" example. You spiced it up a bit. I like it.

AED, are you an anarchist?

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

As it seems your play, you take positions that have so many holes, a mouse would be proud.

Every citizen has a social security number. I mentioned this, did I not? Your social will be cross-referenced for validity. Not hard. Not much more than anything we currently have in place. Just more refined.

Will you catch everyone, no. Will you catch most, yes.

In addition. IF an employer is found to be employing illegals, huge fines. Huge.

They will self-deport.

Listen, if you open border apologists rallied against welfare with such fervor that you do for open borders and the tens upon tens of millions of illegals, and "like it". .. we might be able to end the welfare state. But you, and your ilk, are so open borders that you can never realize the "no welfare state" because the thing you are advocating ie. open borders & its consequences, will breed bigger government, more taxation, and more welfare.

I am pro-Private Property and Natural Law. Secondly, what mouse holes? Didn't you just read what I said. It appears you did because you are pimping Social Security (IE National ID cards). What's the substantive difference between SS and Real ID?

After that, you are then advocating stealing (fine), the money and capital of people who have violated no ones rights.

You must really hate immigrants to throw away private property and privacy.

Also, if you are concerned about bigger government and more welfare then you should advocate the deportation of everyone on welfare, and all the socialists, communists, and environmental Statist agrarians.

 

[Warrior_of_Freedom]