I would like to attempt to clear up any Campaign for Liberty misinformation you have!

[angelatc]

Bradley, will you never stop having a temper tantrum that Ron Paul would not hire you to work for his campaign? Does Jean know you're back to your games? Maybe I should give her a call.

Why would you do that? Just to stir up crap?

I really wish you and Bradley would just block each other.

 

[raystone]

OK - so your violating your NDA from day one - I'm sure C4L will be thrilled to hear that.

We're trying to get them to do away with it or at least relax it instead.

-t

Not violating it a bit...the NDA refers to voter data. We haven't even seen that yet from C4L, let alone using it. When we do, the NDA is a needed legal CYA.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Not violating it a bit...the NDA refers to voter data. We haven't even seen that yet from C4L, let alone using it. When we do, the NDA is a needed legal CYA.

WHEREAS, the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY agrees to furnish you with voter data for your precinct, training materials, and the like:

YOU agree as follows:

You shall use the data, lists, and materials *ONLY* for purposes explicitly stated on the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY website, including canvassing and related purposes, as assigned to you to carry out your responsibilities.

...

You shall not download, possess, retain, or disclose any information of or pertaining to any Precinct Leaders in your county or state, except for personal usage for the purpose of supporting the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY Precinct Leader program as described by the CAMPAIGN FOR LIBERTY.

...



This is the same agreement - right?

-t

 

[raystone]

tangent4ronpaul - I think we are on the same side of the battle. Yes, same agreement. ...training materials, and the like: refers to PL training and things like voter data and PL training matls.
The other lines also refer to the PL program. The entire NDA is signed by PLs for the PL program.
In other words, we are not using the C4L PL program for our current issue fights like Dangerous ID. The C4L is also simply a community of Ron Paul supporters. In fact, only about 7% of C4L members are PLs at this time in our state, which is about the national average. We are contacting people that signed up for user accounts in C4L, and we are using the C4L messaging system to share strategies, inform of upcoming meetings and actions, and find volunteers.
Again, when the voter lists do come out, we'll abide by the PL NDA.

 

[Wendi]

I'm a precinct leader, but I still don't know what's going on.

 

[raystone]

I'm a precinct leader, but I still don't know what's going on.

Have you started on the Precinct Leader steps....the first 4 help get PLs up to speed on area political parties and elected officials. Step 5 will be the first outreach activity...finding Ron Paul supporters and getting them involved in your local C4L community. Then you can work with your PL team and your precinct voters in the future to 1) help put pressure on elected officials to vote on the side of liberty and 2) help get elected liberty minded candidates. (the C4L can't endorse candidates, but each C4L member can work towards getting candidates elected.)


Step 1: Get to Know Your Precinct
Step 2: Get to Know the Party Players
Step 3: Get to Know Your Elected Officials
Step 4: Get to Know the Rules (Coming soon)
Step 5: Build Your Precinct Team (Re-ID RP supporters)
Step 6: Set Your Goals and Draft Your Precinct Plan
Step 7: Get to Know the Voters in Your Precinct

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

tangent4ronpaul - I think we are on the same side of the battle. Yes, same agreement. ...training materials, and the like: refers to PL training and things like voter data and PL training matls.
The other lines also refer to the PL program. The entire NDA is signed by PLs for the PL program.
In other words, we are not using the C4L PL program for our current issue fights like Dangerous ID. The C4L is also simply a community of Ron Paul supporters. In fact, only about 7% of C4L members are PLs at this time in our state, which is about the national average. We are contacting people that signed up for user accounts in C4L, and we are using the C4L messaging system to share strategies, inform of upcoming meetings and actions, and find volunteers.
Again, when the voter lists do come out, we'll abide by the PL NDA.

You keep changing your story.

Here you are saying the NDA is for the training program, while before you said it was for voter data.

and what about:

> This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement.

the NDA specifically refers to lists - and this is a huge fight I'm having with our state group and why we should either get them to reform or start over from scratch.

The NDA also says you can't use CFL resources for anything that isn't C4L blessed and orders from on high. That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

Yes you are violating it. But you are not the problem - C4L is!

-t

 

[LibertyEagle]

That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

No offense, but this makes sense to me. I'm sure you wouldn't use a membership list for something stupid, but I doubt you're the person they were trying to guard against. Think about it. All I can speak for is myself, but I wouldn't take it too kindly if someone started using a list they got from C4L, with my name and contact info on it, to try to get me to attend some kind of white nationalist event, or something. The possibilities for misuse are endless.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

Have you started on the Precinct Leader steps....the first 4 help get PLs up to speed on area political parties and elected officials. Step 5 will be the first outreach activity...finding Ron Paul supporters and getting them involved in your local C4L community. Then you can work with your PL team and your precinct voters in the future to 1) help put pressure on elected officials to vote on the side of liberty and 2) help get elected liberty minded candidates. (the C4L can't endorse candidates, but each C4L member can work towards getting candidates elected.)


Step 1: Get to Know Your Precinct
Step 2: Get to Know the Party Players
Step 3: Get to Know Your Elected Officials
Step 4: Get to Know the Rules (Coming soon)
Step 5: Build Your Precinct Team (Re-ID RP supporters)
Step 6: Set Your Goals and Draft Your Precinct Plan
Step 7: Get to Know the Voters in Your Precinct

Seems simple enough, now for the precincts to actually go out and implement these 7 steps in all cities across America. What is the current CFL Precinct count up to currently?

You keep changing your story.

Here you are saying the NDA is for the training program, while before you said it was for voter data.

and what about:

> This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement.

the NDA specifically refers to lists - and this is a huge fight I'm having with our state group and why we should either get them to reform or start over from scratch.

The NDA also says you can't use CFL resources for anything that isn't C4L blessed and orders from on high. That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

Yes you are violating it. But you are not the problem - C4L is!

-t

I think the Grassroots vs. CFL will continue no matter what happens. Most organizations can't function well without some form of structure. Now it does defeat the grassroots style of campaigning though, if the rp2008 was setup this way then we wouldn't have gotten as far as we did or at least that is the way I see it. BUT in the end, like the rp2008 official campaign the CFL has its own agenda and objectives to deal with WHILE grassroots efforts can continue whether through the cfl OR other online and offline groups and projects.

We worked well with the official campaign, there were plenty of complaints and I do hope the CFL does infact run much smoother than the rp08 campaign did. No matter what though, the cfl will end up doing great things the ,YAL will do great with the college kids, online communities like RPF's will remain alive and expand awareness online and offline as well.

It seems as though people are trying to corral the grassroots as a whole into one group and it really doesn't work that way ESPECIALLY when you have a million different points of views and objects that each person feels is important to them personally.

Simple fix, stay local, fix your own backyard and not worry about others and hope they are doing the same thing. Leave the national efforts to the larger groups LIKE the cfl itself and when the time comes the various grassroots groups and the larger ones will end up backing odds are the same "Few" candidates in the end ESPECIALLY if the candidates are true patriots. They are easy to spot and easy to weed out just as fast.

 

[Sandra]

The latest and most concise voter data will be at your REGISTRAR OF VOTERS. They will send it to you be CD, download or printed list. Usually for under 15.00. I discovered that second party data is a few months outdated and can lead to pulling your hair out.

 

[Pete]

You keep changing your story.

Here you are saying the NDA is for the training program, while before you said it was for voter data.

and what about:

> This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement.

the NDA specifically refers to lists - and this is a huge fight I'm having with our state group and why we should either get them to reform or start over from scratch.

The NDA also says you can't use CFL resources for anything that isn't C4L blessed and orders from on high. That you can't download or retain ANY information on members for any other purpose than supporting the C4L Precinct Leaders program.

Yes you are violating it. But you are not the problem - C4L is!

-t

My NDA is no longer available to look at because I OKed it and went to the next step, but I recall it as being quite reasonable: (1) that it's OK to hand out paper copies of voter lists for volunteer use, but they must be collected from the volunteers within 48 hours, and (2) no material is to be distributed BEARING THE C4L LOGO without HQ approval. In other words, you can hand out Das Kapital as long as you don't use their logo or letterhead.

WRT member info, members can choose whether or not to display their real name. Full contact info is only available to coordinators, and then only for the relevant district or county.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Actually, if they are not PL's those lists have to be collected back within 8 hours.

-t

 

[Pete]

I found that I still have a link to the NDA and it has changed a bit. Nothing about an hour limit on lists used by volunteers, but to collect them when the project is complete.

Any literature to be presented as CFL literature is to be produced and distributed by CFL. I guess the approval process was seen as onerous. Fair enough, although I would like us to do newsletters under our county banner. I will look into this.

Information about PLs is to be used only for supporting supporting the PL program. Also fair.

Newyearsrevolution08, I like your thinking about coexistence of CFL and other efforts. As it is, a lot of CFL members are doing other things as well as CFL and, besides, CFL cannot endorse candidates. The great things about CFL, assuming we fill the precincts, will be (1) wall-to-wall coverage of voters and (2) mobilization on issues, so I hope that many grassroots will consider covering a precinct besides doing their own thing.

 

[Imperial]

I must note though that CFL state organizations and lower may endorse candidates.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

Well, can you distribute information with out that logo that you make yourself? They probably want to make money by you having to purchase all the materials from them. I ain't crazy about all that...I can print stuff and copy it cheaper on my own...unless theirs are very inexpensive. I found there is NOTHING inexpensive at LPstuff...very expensive. tones

 

[LibertyEagle]

Well, can you distribute information with out that logo that you make yourself? They probably want to make money by you having to purchase all the materials from them. I ain't crazy about all that...I can print stuff and copy it cheaper on my own...unless theirs are very inexpensive. I found there is NOTHING inexpensive at LPstuff...very expensive. tones

You are creating your own strawman here, Tones, and then shooting it down.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

I could while away the hours, conversin with the flowers, consortin with the rain...
and my head I'd be scratchin while my thoughts were busy hatchin ...if i only had a brain..

Great song. Tones

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

I must note though that CFL state organizations and lower may endorse candidates.

Will they be able to endorse AS A CFL Organization itself OR are you saying that the groups themselves will back candidates?

 

[Pete]

I must note though that CFL state organizations and lower may endorse candidates.

I don't know what they have in mind. In my county, we are talking about having a 501(c)(4) which can't, plus a PAC which can.

 

[raystone]

Will they be able to endorse AS A CFL Organization itself OR are you saying that the groups themselves will back candidates?

Any 501(c)(4), which is Campaign for Liberty and possibly future state chapters, cannot endorse a specific candidate at the organization level. That does not prohibit individual members from working towards getting particular candidates elected and using the organization to coordinate efforts. Much like the 501(c)(4) Moveon.org members did everything in their power to help get Obama elected.