I would like to attempt to clear up any Campaign for Liberty misinformation you have!

[tonesforjonesbones]

I i can get whatever lists I need from my supervisor of elections for free. I call them and say..I want this or that ..and they send me an email and I print it out. Pretty simple. I was able to get the entire list of libertarians in my county for free...name address phone and email. tones

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

so,.If i get my own list will they waive the 35 bucks? tones

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

Maybe we can setup a page that has lists and information for various cities on how to get their precinct lists locally. The grassroots could totally do this just by anyone who checks on their cities pricing and so forth can then post it on the site, info, address and so on.

I am actually going to set that up, that would be a great resource. I can set them up and have the price, or list a FREE next to those where the cities give the stuff away as well as ones that provide it online or in person.

Now that $35 hopefully goes towards more than just precinct lists im sure..

 

[angelatc]

I don't know. I think you sound like a really great leader. It takes a lot of work to host an event. We all have our roles. In your case, you hate calling people on the phone but you love opening up your home to events. That's great. I understand your frustration with the Campaign for Liberty but I hope you reconsider. It would be a shame for your talents not to be put to good use.

Your district is going to do just fine.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

Your district is going to do just fine.

+1776 I completely agree

Keep up the great work everyone

 

[ShannonOBrien]

Maybe we can setup a page that has lists and information for various cities on how to get their precinct lists locally. The grassroots could totally do this just by anyone who checks on their cities pricing and so forth can then post it on the site, info, address and so on.

I am actually going to set that up, that would be a great resource. I can set them up and have the price, or list a FREE next to those where the cities give the stuff away as well as ones that provide it online or in person.

Now that $35 hopefully goes towards more than just precinct lists im sure..

Way to take the reins! That would be really useful. Let me know when you're looking for lists in Washington state so I can try to send them your way. Oh and maybe it could have some way that only we could get the lists so that the neocons and democrats don't get it. I'm not sure how that would work (a litmus test?) but we want to make things as difficult as possible for them.

 

[ShannonOBrien]

Well, I'm not sure what the big secret is. Yes , You can work your arse off for liberty, but you have to pay us 35 dollars to get the big secrets first., That just makes no damn sense to me...either they WANT to spread liberty or they don't...If I wanted footsoldiers i damn sure wound't CHARGE them to volunteer. I really have an issue wiht this..."ok ..for 35 dollars you can be in the "in crowd"...and that is sure enough blocking me from joining. I feel like if I am willing to drag myself out of the house to go get active...that should be payment enough. It's not the MONEY it is the principle. they should SCRAP the stupid 35 bucks and they would probably get all the precinct leaders they could handle. <EYEROLL> ToneS

Maybe you would be interested in helping out as a non-dues paying member. You can help out just as much as a paying member. You won't have access to the website materials but you could always work with other people in your precinct who do have them. I think you can still use the social networking section to contact the precinct leaders if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Bradley in DC]

so,.If i get my own list will they waive the 35 bucks? tones

no, that's for Jesse's mortgage and Lexus

 

[ShannonOBrien]

no, that's for Jesse's mortgage and Lexus

There are so many things wrong with that:
1. You imply that Jesse bought a new house and owns a Lexus because the campaign gave him the donation money for it. You won't even go out and say it.
2. Your only source is a rumor you heard from "some friends."
3. You have a Bob Barr picture as your avatar. And we all know how much we can trust Bob Barr, right?

Sorry, I'm not that stupid. See, when someone makes an accusation like that, I like to see things like "facts" directly from the source. If you can do that, then I'll consider taking you seriously.

 

[Bradley in DC]

There are so many things wrong with that:
1. You imply that Jesse bought a new house and owns a Lexus because the campaign gave him the donation money for it. You won't even go out and say it.
2. Your only source is a rumor you heard from "some friends."
3. You have a Bob Barr picture as your avatar. And we all know how much we can trust Bob Barr, right?

Sorry, I'm not that stupid. See, when someone makes an accusation like that, I like to see things like "facts" directly from the source. If you can do that, then I'll consider taking you seriously.

Shannon,

I don't know you or have any reason to think you're stupid. I said what I said. It is true that the RP people in Lake Jackson are poking fun about it all. "Some friends" are long time RP community whom I know and trust (and know and trust me).

If you know they're wrong, and can show me, I'll be happy to make a correction and chastise them.

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Precinct leaders aren't elected. Anybody can be a precinct leader. You just have to sign up, pay $35 for dues and sign a non-disclosure agreement. (The non-disclosure agreement is there because they give you a list of people in your precinct and their phone numbers. They don't want you to abuse that information.) Right now any higher position (such as a county coordinator) is unelected as well. As soon as a state gets a good amount of precinct leaders, a convention will be held and the precinct leaders will elect their leaders, who will elect their leaders and so on up the food chain. Just like a republic. The number of precinct leaders depends on the state. Some states are small and will require a smaller number of precinct leaders to start elections. As far as I know there is no set in stone number.

I'd imagine many people lead somewhat transient lives, and the expectations of a PL look to be more geared toward settled folk...

I don't know that I care for an election system that excludes dues paying non-PLs.

I wonder at a system that divides its membership with a non-disclosure agreement. (Hell, wasn't it Anita's NDA that caused the first SS in the grassroots...?) The statement that they don't want us to abuse the list just doesn't cut it. Voter lists are public knowledge. Further, the r3VOLution grew as an open source campaign; that is one of our prime attractions. An NDA seems to create an elitist culture. (In fact, ironically, it could be said to be a "secret society" - Bearers of the Sacred Knowledge.)

One problem with secrets is the power it gives the holder to string others along., Another is the the endless opportunity it provides doubters and naysayers to shift focus. Haven't we seen enough of that? And is it worth it?

Well, when I put myself in his shoes I guess I would feel more comfortable having family members because I can trust them and members of prior campaigns because I already know what to expect of them. But I can understand why that could be a problem. If they are completely incompetent, because of the close ties, he might not want to fire them.

The bottom line is that they are all temporary and they know that. RP set up the campaign for liberty so that once we get enough people we can hold elections and the grassroots can elect the higher ups. That way, if one of his family members is incompetent, we can put someone else in their position that will do a better job. That's why in the end I'm not too concerned, though I'm still going to be skeptical.

I'd like to know where this process is described? If such a design goes straight to the top, then I think publicizing it might help recruitment...

Tell me more about this find!

We got our county voter files last fall, from the election board, for $20 a disc. People should call their election office and ask...

 

[raystone]

Maybe we can setup a page that has lists and information for various cities on how to get their precinct lists locally. The grassroots could totally do this just by anyone who checks on their cities pricing and so forth can then post it on the site, info, address and so on.

I am actually going to set that up, that would be a great resource. I can set them up and have the price, or list a FREE next to those where the cities give the stuff away as well as ones that provide it online or in person.

Now that $35 hopefully goes towards more than just precinct lists im sure..

Based on conference calls with the voter list database programmer Adam de Angeli, voter lists are required at the state level for consistent formatting, datafile type, consistent voter information (opinion on guns, prolife, etc), rather than obtaining for each precinct ward.

My state has 3,000+ precinct wards, it seems to make sense it would be aherculean task to get 2,000 or 5,000 different files to line up to produce a programmable file for each state.

Now, if someone can find state level, current voter lists for free, that's a different story.

 

[tonesforjonesbones]

It is not about 35 dollars for me it is a matter of principle. I realize a lot of organizations have dues...I thought this was grassroots. I liked it better when we had meet ups and were able to be creative in our own right. I guess it's their way or the highway now...that's not grassroots. Besides, if they were just donation driven, many people would probably donate more than 35 bucks..why put a cap on it? Tones

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

I agree fully.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

It is not about 35 dollars for me it is a matter of principle. I realize a lot of organizations have dues...I thought this was grassroots. I liked it better when we had meet ups and were able to be creative in our own right. I guess it's their way or the highway now...that's not grassroots. Besides, if they were just donation driven, many people would probably donate more than 35 bucks..why put a cap on it? Tones

We still have Meetups and at least Florida and Pennsylvania either coagulated their fecal matter before CFL got around to it or revolted and formed their own state organization. Something like this is afoot in Maryland to. I would be amazed if other states hadn't bailed too.

Your right, this isn't grassroots.

-t

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Based on conference calls with the voter list database programmer Adam de Angeli, voter lists are required at the state level for consistent formatting, datafile type, consistent voter information (opinion on guns, prolife, etc), rather than obtaining for each precinct ward.

My state has 3,000+ precinct wards, it seems to make sense it would be aherculean task to get 2,000 or 5,000 different files to line up to produce a programmable file for each state.

Now, if someone can find state level, current voter lists for free, that's a different story.

Not that much of a hurculean task at all because there should be 50 files - each state should be consistent in their format. From what I understand, the grassroots already has 13 of the state VRL's that were used for the Call for Paul project and other uses.

Note that some states include phone numbers and others do not.

The value added here, is the few fields - gun rights, pro-life, etc - 4-6 of them. This data could be collected from private databases.

As to it being such private data - anyone can come up with the money and buy their states voter database. For that matter, there are reverse directories in either hardcopy that many libraries have and available online for a fee - so "to protect private data" is a lark - it's easy to access.

I would be amazed if all the data in the voter vault couldn't be obtained from the states and some private databases for a fraction of the $350,000 being paid for it. The only other good point about the voter vault is the promices of updates - but for how long?

-t

 

[raystone]

It is not about 35 dollars for me it is a matter of principle. I realize a lot of organizations have dues...I thought this was grassroots. I liked it better when we had meet ups and were able to be creative in our own right. I guess it's their way or the highway now...that's not grassroots. Besides, if they were just donation driven, many people would probably donate more than 35 bucks..why put a cap on it? Tones

We are using C4L as needed in our state to achieve our grassroots goals. We are now executing a strategy to stop Dangerous ID. This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement. We are not waiting for orders from HQ nor asking permission on this or other issues we want to take on.

There's a Donate link top right of C4L site, no cap.

Not that much of a hurculean task at all because there should be 50 files - each state should be consistent in their format. From what I understand, the grassroots already has 13 of the state VRL's that were used for the Call for Paul project and other uses.

Note that some states include phone numbers and others do not.

-t

The herculean task I was referring to would be combining the files that some individuals in some states are able to obtain at no cost. Those thousands of files from individual precinct wards in each state don't come with consistent information, columns, types, etc.
Voter files get outdated quickly. The cost of the voter files from my state's fall presidential election is $12,500.


C4L IS making available shortly a free huge list to re ID past Ron Paul supporters for current members to additional members.

Also BTW, not sure if it has been mentioned, but it should be announced soon there is a long time grassroots member joining the C4L board of directors.

I expect negative posts on how the C4L board is still mostly Ron Paul's family, from his campaign, etc. I'm simply going to continue to work with our state's C4L membership community and tools from the imperfect C4L to fight our fights in my state until there is something better.

 

[newyearsrevolution08]

Keep up the fight indeed, exciting stuff is happening. I do agree, work with what you have.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

We are using C4L as needed in our state to achieve our grassroots goals. We are now executing a strategy to stop Dangerous ID. This strategy uses grassroots ideas and uses C4L membership list and C4L communication tools to implement. We are not waiting for orders from HQ nor asking permission on this or other issues we want to take on.

OK - so your violating your NDA from day one - I'm sure C4L will be thrilled to hear that.

We're trying to get them to do away with it or at least relax it instead.

-t

 

[LibertyEagle]

Shannon,

I don't know you or have any reason to think you're stupid. I said what I said. It is true that the RP people in Lake Jackson are poking fun about it all. "Some friends" are long time RP community whom I know and trust (and know and trust me).

If you know they're wrong, and can show me, I'll be happy to make a correction and chastise them.

Bradley, will you never stop having a temper tantrum that Ron Paul would not hire you to work for his campaign? Does Jean know you're back to your games? Maybe I should give her a call.