"I was wrong about Bitcoin"

[PaulConventionWV]

Sign of a store of value. Something that goes straight up is the sign of a bubble.

That has yet to be determined. I'm sure some of it is speculation, but that just goes without saying. A lot of it is legitimate.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Funny! To me it already has zero value! Buy bitcoins if you want them, but don't try to give them to me for anything I am selling, I won't take them!

LOL

You're behind the curve, but you'll catch up when bitcoin replaces the dollar.

 

[amonasro]

I support any non-fed currency, even if it's acorns.

Acorns > Fed Notes

Think of bitcoins as digital acorns. They are freely traded among acorn lovers who don't trust fiat currency.

The acorns are awarded by robot squirrels at a predictable rate to searchers. The squirrels cannot ever be bought, swayed or reasoned with, and their brains are open-source. Thousands exist all over the world and they are identical and decentralized. Using their rules and their forest, we are allowed to search for more acorns until 21 million exist. The more people searching, the bigger the forest gets and the more difficult they become to find. The searchers, in their search, are also verifying transactions of other acorn traders and being awarded small transaction fees in the process. Once all 21 million acorns are found, these fees will be all that are left to find.

Oh, and each acorn has the equivalent of a 100 digit padlock. Only the owner holds the key that will verify the acorn's existence to the robot squirrels. Each acorn can also be subdivided into virtually unlimited pieces.

So the analogy is a little stretched, but that's my current understanding of how it all works.

 

[cubical]

Ok, so the automobile was a bad invention because Ford stocks gained a lot of value on the market.

Do you realize that Paul Krugman is a harsh critic of bitcoin?

That alone should make you start questioning your own narrow-minded dogmatic beliefs in this case.

What? Where did I say things can not go up in value?

Krugman isn't wrong about all things. Talk about being narrow minded.

And why am I narrow minded for thinking it is a bubble. Why aren't you narrow minded for thinking this is one of the only sustainable parabolic charts in history?

 

[jclay2]

What? Where did I say things can not go up in value?

Krugman isn't wrong about all things. Talk about being narrow minded.

And why am I narrow minded for thinking it is a bubble. Why aren't you narrow minded for thinking this is one of the only sustainable parabolic charts in history?

+ rep. My thoughts to his posts as well.

 

[newbitech]

1. By that logic, nothing new would be worth anything long term. Maybe if you give it a chance it will become established.
2. This ties in with #1. It is not time-tested, so of course it's going to fluctuate. Everything needs time to weed out a place in the market.
3. This also goes back to #1. If it was time-tested, then it may very well would prove to be a store of value. Who knows. That can't be determined right now because it's so new.
4. Just because we never had this system before, that doesn't mean it can't function. There is no rule that says money has to be a physical asset. That's just what we're used to, which gets us back to the time-tested thing. It's new, and it could be revolutionary. It's backed by the fact that it is a uniquely encrypted coin that cannot be inflated arbitrarily and is not subject to oversight/regulation. The benefits are undeniable. Some of them may be questionable, but that just gets us back to the time-tested thing. Give it some time and the chinks can easily be worked out.

Those are all criteria you made up for money because that is all you know. Maybe you should consider allowing room for something new instead of holding to the old paradigm that money must be physical.

Meanwhile, the BTC jumps another $10 and I just made money off of it. Just out of curiosity, what would the price of a bitcoin have to rise to in order for you to think it was legit? $1000? $10,000?

you sure about that? I just gave 4 things that bitcoin is not and sound money is. I didn't list all the criteria, and I certainly didn't make that up. Not only have I considered it, I actually have some of the new stuff. I am not sure what point you make in attempting to accuse me of whatever it is you are accusing me of, but I am quite sure that your argument is "just wait", sort of doesn't really hold up.

Petar laid the burden of proof on another poster in this thread to prove that Bitcoin is not sound money. That's pretty easy. It never was, and up until very recently, it's USD conversion rate was pretty steady, but once the talk about it becoming a replacement heated up, that changed too. Sound money doesn't fluctuate wildly. And it certainly doesn't allow the USD to dictate its value.

So reality is, this thing bitcoin was no more valuable today than in was when it was first created. BUT, you see the price action? That's how we know it's not "sound".

Potential, sure, but if you go back and read Petars words to that other poster, he wasn't talking about potential.

 

[RickyJ]

LOL

You're behind the curve, but you'll catch up when bitcoin replaces the dollar.

There is a sucker born every minute. I just didn't think there would be so many suckers on RPFs.

 

[newbitech]

There is a sucker born every minute. I just didn't think there would be so many suckers on RPFs.

its funny, people don't have to be suckers. people can offer their service for bitcoins instead of spending their hard earned FIAT on them. Why don't we see that? It's really curious.

I'd like to see a show of hands for people who are wanting to use their bitcoins to purchase some goods or services from me. Let me know how many bitcoins you are willing to spend and what you are in the market for.

I will offer goods and services in exchange for some bitcoins, but only if people are willing to part with them.

 

[idiom]

You still have not described the mechanism by which bitcoin might fail in the marketplace and lose all its value.

Feds cracking down on ppl for not accounting for capital gain.
Feds cracking down for exporting bitcoin and not reporting it properly
Feds cracking down because it not actually anonymous.
Feds cracking down on people using temporary wallets.

Lotsa ways it could hit a revulsion threshold.

 

[Ignostic?]

its funny, people don't have to be suckers. people can offer their service for bitcoins instead of spending their hard earned FIAT on them. Why don't we see that? It's really curious.

I'd like to see a show of hands for people who are wanting to use their bitcoins to purchase some goods or services from me. Let me know how many bitcoins you are willing to spend and what you are in the market for.

I will offer goods and services in exchange for some bitcoins, but only if people are willing to part with them.

People already buying nice cars with bitcoins.

 

[Ignostic?]

First off, "fiat" means "by government decree". Without that government decree, something cannot be fiat. Get over it, y'all.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Value is a property that is bestowed upon something by a living organism, whether it be tangible or not. A squirrel can value a nut, but that nut has no value without the squirrel. A person can value a video game they download off Steam, despite it having no tangibility. A rock can't value anything, but a mason can value a rock.

I don't really like the argument that an asteroid full of gold could hit us and cause the gold price to plummet. That's far too unlikely to take seriously. What I think is a much more relevant argument is that an asteroid full of gold that doesn't hit us has no value because it is of no use to anybody. Gold does not have intrinsic value because its value is completely dependent on people being able to make use of it. Some people might want it because it looks pretty to them. Others might not like the look of gold at all. For most people on this forum, gold's value comes from its increasing value relative to the dollar. It's circular. Gold's value comes from it's expected value in the future. Most of y'all who claim that gold has intrinsic value will just leave it in a drawer or somewhere equivalent. I doubt anybody here owns an electronics factory. Maybe there are some dentists. I'm sure there's a small minority that actually has some use for gold, but for the majority it is just a chunk of metal that will sit there and do nothing. Y'all just assume that other people will be willing to trade more dollars for it in the future. Or Euros, I guess. You're certainly not going to be able to buy gasoline or order something off the internet with it. That's because gold sucks as a currency in the modern world. It worked great for a long long time, but so did the horse and buggy.

A large part of Bitcoin's value also comes from the expectation of a greater value in the future, but in addition to that, Bitcoin offers greater utility than gold to most people. I've never heard anybody explain the utility of a few gold coins sitting in a drawer. The only worthwhile thing you can do with gold coins is sell them for a currency that can actually be traded for things that you do have use for. That's a pain in the ass. And that person that buys them from you probably wants to copy down your driver's license information so they can come get you if its fake. Because it is easy to fake a gold coin. It is not easy to fake a bitcoin. After the initial setup at MtGox, it is extremely easy to buy and sell bitcoins. Easier than buying gold or silver. No shipping charge. And look, you can buy an iPad with bitcoins. Can you do that with gold?

Value is completely subjective. Dollars do have value. Real value. Because you can trade them for damn near anything. It just sucks that it takes more and more dollars to get those things. It also sucks that it is expensive and slow to send dollars around the world (although still cheaper and faster than gold). The only advantage gold has over dollars is a relatively guaranteed scarcity. Gold's portability and transferabilty sucks, though. It is very clunky to use as a currency in the modern world. Gold had a good run, but times have changed.

Would somebody care to explain how they believe that value can be an intrinsic property? Good electrical conductivity is an intrinsic property of gold. So is good malleability and corrosion resistance. Gold has these properties even if it is in another galaxy. That's what makes those properties intrinsic. Gold only has value on Earth, though. That makes its value subjective. Just like Bitcoin. Gold will make a better necklace, but Bitcoin will make a better currency.

 

[newbitech]

First off, "fiat" means "by government decree". Without that government decree, something cannot be fiat. Get over it, y'all.

Nothing has intrinsic value. Value is a property that is bestowed upon something by a living organism, whether it be tangible or not. A squirrel can value a nut, but that nut has no value without the squirrel. A person can value a video game they download off Steam, despite it having no tangibility. A rock can't value anything, but a mason can value a rock.

I don't really like the argument that an asteroid full of gold could hit us and cause the gold price to plummet. That's far too unlikely to take seriously. What I think is a much more relevant argument is that an asteroid full of gold that doesn't hit us has no value because it is of no use to anybody. Gold does not have intrinsic value because its value is completely dependent on people being able to make use of it. Some people might want it because it looks pretty to them. Others might not like the look of gold at all. For most people on this forum, gold's value comes from its increasing value relative to the dollar. It's circular. Gold's value comes from it's expected value in the future. Most of y'all who claim that gold has intrinsic value will just leave it in a drawer or somewhere equivalent. I doubt anybody here owns an electronics factory. Maybe there are some dentists. I'm sure there's a small minority that actually has some use for gold, but for the majority it is just a chunk of metal that will sit there and do nothing. Y'all just assume that other people will be willing to trade more dollars for it in the future. Or Euros, I guess. You're certainly not going to be able to buy gasoline or order something off the internet with it. That's because gold sucks as a currency in the modern world. It worked great for a long long time, but so did the horse and buggy.

A large part of Bitcoin's value also comes from the expectation of a greater value in the future, but in addition to that, Bitcoin offers greater utility than gold to most people. I've never heard anybody explain the utility of a few gold coins sitting in a drawer. The only worthwhile thing you can do with gold coins is sell them for a currency that can actually be traded for things that you do have use for. That's a pain in the ass. And that person that buys them from you probably wants to copy down your driver's license information so they can come get you if its fake. Because it is easy to fake a gold coin. It is not easy to fake a bitcoin. After the initial setup at MtGox, it is extremely easy to buy and sell bitcoins. Easier than buying gold or silver. No shipping charge. And look, you can buy an iPad with bitcoins. Can you do that with gold?

Value is completely subjective. Dollars do have value. Real value. Because you can trade them for damn near anything. It just sucks that it takes more and more dollars to get those things. It also sucks that it is expensive and slow to send dollars around the world (although still cheaper and faster than gold). The only advantage gold has over dollars is a relatively guaranteed scarcity. Gold's portability and transferabilty sucks, though. It is very clunky to use as a currency in the modern world. Gold had a good run, but times have changed.

Would somebody care to explain how they believe that value can be an intrinsic property? Good electrical conductivity is an intrinsic property of gold. So is good malleability and corrosion resistance. Gold has these properties even if it is in another galaxy. That's what makes those properties intrinsic. Gold only has value on Earth, though. That makes its value subjective. Just like Bitcoin. Gold will make a better necklace, but Bitcoin will make a better currency.

actually, it can also mean "without intrinsic value", but competing definitions aren't really important. Who can honestly say what bitcoin is at this point besides just describing how it "works".

Can you point me to the portion of the threat that shows proof the car transaction occurred?

 

[PaulConventionWV]

you sure about that? I just gave 4 things that bitcoin is not and sound money is. I didn't list all the criteria, and I certainly didn't make that up. Not only have I considered it, I actually have some of the new stuff. I am not sure what point you make in attempting to accuse me of whatever it is you are accusing me of, but I am quite sure that your argument is "just wait", sort of doesn't really hold up.

Petar laid the burden of proof on another poster in this thread to prove that Bitcoin is not sound money. That's pretty easy. It never was, and up until very recently, it's USD conversion rate was pretty steady, but once the talk about it becoming a replacement heated up, that changed too. Sound money doesn't fluctuate wildly. And it certainly doesn't allow the USD to dictate its value.

So reality is, this thing bitcoin was no more valuable today than in was when it was first created. BUT, you see the price action? That's how we know it's not "sound".

Potential, sure, but if you go back and read Petars words to that other poster, he wasn't talking about potential.

Are you even listening? I know sound money doesn't fluctuate wildly. That's because the bitcoin is still new. Everything fluctuates when it's new. There's no point in talking about value if you don't even consider the potential it has. Just because it's not stable now, that doesn't mean it will never be.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

actually, it can also mean "without intrinsic value", but competing definitions aren't really important. Who can honestly say what bitcoin is at this point besides just describing how it "works".

Can you point me to the portion of the threat that shows proof the car transaction occurred?

Lol. You're being really suspicious. Somebody points out a legitimate transaction that happened with BTC, and you say "Nuh uh! Prove it!"

I would buy things with bitcoins. It just depends on the price. It's much easier to buy things with BTC than to form contracts, but that's just because BTC is still in its early stages. It takes TIME to become a viable currency. It doesn't happen overnight no matter what currency it is. So pointing out the fact that it is unstable is just stupid right now. Everyone knows it's unstable, but that doesn't really mean anything besides the fact that it's new. Give it time.

 

[newbitech]

Lol. You're being really suspicious. Somebody points out a legitimate transaction that happened with BTC, and you say "Nuh uh! Prove it!"

I would buy things with bitcoins. It just depends on the price. It's much easier to buy things with BTC than to form contracts, but that's just because BTC is still in its early stages. It takes TIME to become a viable currency. It doesn't happen overnight no matter what currency it is. So pointing out the fact that it is unstable is just stupid right now. Everyone knows it's unstable, but that doesn't really mean anything besides the fact that it's new. Give it time.

i have other questions, but it would be pointless to ask if that is bs.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

i have other questions, but it would be pointless to ask if that is bs.

The point is, you're judging it to be BS before you know anything about it. You're quick to hate, so you're not being very rational.

 

[newbitech]

The point is, you're judging it to be BS before you know anything about it. You're quick to hate, so you're not being very rational.

cause if its on the internet it must be true ...

so im assuming there is no proof since if there was, you'd point it out instead of calling me a hater and irrational.

anyways, looks like the guy had it for sale back in feb..

also looks like he changed his BTC price as the value of BTC in terms of USD went up..

He probably could have also traded it for a semi truck of candy bars...

 

[PaulConventionWV]

cause if its on the internet it must be true ...

so im assuming there is no proof since if there was, you'd point it out instead of calling me a hater and irrational.

anyways, looks like the guy had it for sale back in feb..

also looks like he changed his BTC price as the value of BTC in terms of USD went up..

He probably could have also traded it for a semi truck of candy bars...

Oh my God! Shady!

Seriously, get a life. What's the point of all the hate? Why not just wait and see like everyone else?

 

[newbitech]

Oh my God! Shady!

Seriously, get a life. What's the point of all the hate? Why not just wait and see like everyone else?

get a life? wow, talk about hate. There was a time when I came to this forum for the truth. Now, it's becoming more and more about entertainment. The truth is, no one knows if someone really sold a $30,000 USD car for bit coins.

Isn't that the truth? You don't know, you just believe it. You want me to wait and see like everyone else. Fine, in the mean time, I will comment on what I see. And right now, what I see is people trying to turn a quick buck off the thing. Not impressed.

 

[TonySutton]

I think Bitcoin is the new gay on RPF.

Can we hit 200 posts!