"I was wrong about Bitcoin"

psi2941 said:
like i just said you don't counter my argument with a valid point or a counter argument. Your best counter is to be the definition nazi and take the word "fiat" I meant in the terms of

"Currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, despite the fact that it has no intrinsic value and is not backed by reserves. Historically, most currencies were based on physical commodities such as gold or silver, but fiat money is based solely on faith."

Just like a politician can't attack the argument logically so just attack something else.
Click to expand...

There is no limit to the amount of dollars that the government can print. There is a limited supply of gold, silver, and Bitcoins. Bitcoins are the complete opposite of fiat, since there IS a limit to the amount that will be created (21 million). They don't need the full faith and credit of a central authority.
 
People also need to realize that bitcoin's scarcity is secured by the fact that the bitcoin community is open-source, and dictated by self-interest in its own creation/investment.

It's not gold, but it has its own unique advantages.

And it's not like the money cartels have not figured out major ways to mess with the price of gold, despite its limited physical nature.

Bitcoin represents a whole new set of challenges for them.
 
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newbitech said:
I'd like to hear a logical explanation on why it IS sound money.

1.) it is not time tested
2.) it has fluctuated wildly
3.) it is not a store of value
4.) it is not backed by anything tangible

These are all criteria that I have found to be true of sound money.
Click to expand...

1. By that logic, nothing new would be worth anything long term. Maybe if you give it a chance it will become established.
2. This ties in with #1. It is not time-tested, so of course it's going to fluctuate. Everything needs time to weed out a place in the market.
3. This also goes back to #1. If it was time-tested, then it may very well would prove to be a store of value. Who knows. That can't be determined right now because it's so new.
4. Just because we never had this system before, that doesn't mean it can't function. There is no rule that says money has to be a physical asset. That's just what we're used to, which gets us back to the time-tested thing. It's new, and it could be revolutionary. It's backed by the fact that it is a uniquely encrypted coin that cannot be inflated arbitrarily and is not subject to oversight/regulation. The benefits are undeniable. Some of them may be questionable, but that just gets us back to the time-tested thing. Give it some time and the chinks can easily be worked out.

Those are all criteria you made up for money because that is all you know. Maybe you should consider allowing room for something new instead of holding to the old paradigm that money must be physical.

Meanwhile, the BTC jumps another $10 and I just made money off of it. Just out of curiosity, what would the price of a bitcoin have to rise to in order for you to think it was legit? $1000? $10,000?
 
psi2941 said:
Just sear utter bullshit after bullshit. of course your going to reply back with your shitty arguments that doesn't even make sense to me how bit coins are so valuable blah blah blah blah. Just like how a politicians spin shit but when the smoke clears people with a rational mind can clearly see in the end its just bunch of 1s and 0s on a hard drive.

but you know what that's cool with me, if you want to use bit coins use it. I just have a problem with the fact your pedalling that shit if its sound currency when its just another form if "FIAT" currency. THIS IS MY ONLY PROBLEM, I DONT CARE IF ITS A PONZI SCHEME, PUMP AND DUMP, ITS THE FACT ITS ANOTHER FIAT CURRENCY.
Click to expand...
See, like I said in another thread if we had our own BTC subforum you wouldn't be able to roidrage like you're doing here. Also, funny how you lump every BTC user together in your own unique little bubble wrap. Kind of reminds me of how the media was telling everyone and their brothers that Ron Paul supporters are all youngsters living in their parents' basements. I'm also very proud of you in that you're such a computer whiz yet you're the one that plugged the website that I applauded you for, so it might be a great idea for you to get an account over there and put on a spectacle for us. The point is, those of us that have got involved with this obviously have a lot of trust in the idea of attempting to push this concept in as much of the mainstream as possible all the while knowing the risks. I appreciate your militant objections even if you don't respect my thoughts on the subject.
 
thoughtomator said:
There are already Bitcoin hedge funds. Wall St. isn't too interested right now because they can steal more on a Saturday than the entire market value of all Bitcoin in existence.
Click to expand...

I hope it rises enough to where they get involved. That's when the real money starts flowing.
 
psi2941 said:
Rather speculation is involved and if its a really good buy i really don't give a shit. If you want have gay digital masturbation with bit coins i really don't care either. Like is said what really bothers me, if that fact you bozos are pedaling bitcoins as sound money.

1. You guys make insane correlation how bit coins are so rare and can't be reproduced, they can only be "mined." Yet you fail to realize bit coin was man made from the beginning, and i'm a firm believer if it was made by man, it can be made by man again.

2. I would say i'm very tech savvy, pirated every software, movie, and music since 6th grade. Built my first computer 3rd grade and never looked back. With this knowledge, for someone to say its "hack proof" is utter bullshit. No software in the world can be protected 100% ever, someone always finds a way to exploit something or someway its just fact. Even the holy grail of bullshit "apple products" are virus and malware free was proved bullshit 1 month ago, http://www.tuaw.com/2013/02/08/adobe-releases-emergency-flash-update-for-os-x/

3. you guys keep spreading the rumor that its hack proof the best mathematics and software developers has went through the system line by line and said its hack proof. Give me those names, who really when though the source code line by line. What are their professions and what do they do for living. you guys keep spreading that rumor but can't give me the source of that report and if you do its some bullshit unreliable source.

4. Then you guys can't seem to defend the argument bit coin doesn't really have any intrinsic value. The best you little kids can reply with is the argument of a 4 year old. Why? why? why? why? you guys try to deviate the argument saying what makes things intrinsic, intrinsic. It doesn't change the fact you can't touch, feel bit coins.

Just sear utter bullshit after bullshit. of course your going to reply back with your shitty arguments that doesn't even make sense to me how bit coins are so valuable blah blah blah blah. Just like how a politicians spin shit but when the smoke clears people with a rational mind can clearly see in the end its just bunch of 1s and 0s on a hard drive.

but you know what that's cool with me, if you want to use bit coins use it. I just have a problem with the fact your pedalling that shit if its sound currency when its just another form if "FIAT" currency. THIS IS MY ONLY PROBLEM, I DONT CARE IF ITS A PONZI SCHEME, PUMP AND DUMP, ITS THE FACT ITS ANOTHER FIAT CURRENCY.
Click to expand...

I think you might have missed the 21st century. Wake up and smell the bitcoin, man. The world runs on electronics and these days anything can have value. Just because it's never been done before, doesn't mean it shouldn't. Just because money has always been physical, that doesn't mean it's a hard rule that it has to be. In fact, I would argue that the fact we have to fish for physical paper dollars is what makes the dollar so useless. Gold is only better because it can't be printed, but nothing says all money must be physical in order to have value.

You also don't understand the concept of a fiat currency. It's not just physical backing that determines whether it's fiat. It's government control, something bitcoin was made precisely to combat. The reason the dollar has any value at all is because of usury laws, not because the government says it thinks we should use dollars. Bitcoin wasn't started by usury laws, it was started by the marketplace. That, in and of itself, precludes it from being fiat.
 
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psi2941 said:
like i just said you don't counter my argument with a valid point or a counter argument. Your best counter is to be the definition nazi and take the word "fiat" I meant in the terms of

"Currency that a government has declared to be legal tender, despite the fact that it has no intrinsic value and is not backed by reserves. Historically, most currencies were based on physical commodities such as gold or silver, but fiat money is based solely on faith."

Just like a politician can't attack the argument logically so just attack something else.
Click to expand...

If the government declares gold to be the only legal tender, then that would likely increase its value. What you should be paying attention to, instead of that, is the fact that this currency received no help from the government and has received no significant help from Wall St. or any significant figure pumping it up, AND YET... it STILL has climbed from 0-120 in a matter of months purely because the marketplace decided it had value.
 
This time, it's different.

14vms0l.jpg
 
Bitcoin price chart in log form, because a $10 increase in price is completely different at $10 than it is at $100:

chart.png
 
cubical said:
Why don't you push the chart back a bit?

Even if 2000 was the beginning of gold's existence a move from 300 to 1900 over the course of 11 years does not compare to 10 to 110 over the course of 3 months.
Click to expand...

au75-pres.gif


Actually looks like Bitcoins stretched out over 40 years....lol.
 
I support any non-fed currency, even if it's acorns.

Acorns > Fed Notes
 
cubical said:
Sign of a store of value. Something that goes straight up is the sign of a bubble.
Click to expand...

Ok, so the automobile was a bad invention because Ford stocks gained a lot of value on the market.

Do you realize that Paul Krugman is a harsh critic of bitcoin?

That alone should make you start questioning your own narrow-minded dogmatic beliefs in this case.
 
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Petar said:
You still have not described the mechanism by which bitcoin might fail in the marketplace and lose all its value.
Click to expand...

Funny! To me it already has zero value! Buy bitcoins if you want them, but don't try to give them to me for anything I am selling, I won't take them!
 
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