I propose a day of prayer for Our elected officials!

[Theocrat]

"Atheists" Have Faith, Too

Atheism is not a belief; it is an absence of belief. As someone much smarter than me once said, calling atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair color.

I don't know how many times it has to be stated for you "atheists" that you do have a belief system. "Atheism" is the belief that there is no God, and it's a belief because you don't have absolute knowledge to know with complete certainty if there's a God or not. Do "atheists" know there's no God with absolute surety? How could "atheists" even prove a universal negative such as the notion of there not being a God? When "atheists" make the claim that they don't have faith in anything, they are simply speaking in delusion, for there are many truths and bits of information that they accept in which they have not tested by empirical observation and experience. Historical knowledge would be one example of that.

"Atheists" often say there is no God because they see no evidence of it, but I find this strangely similar to the person who says that he doesn't believe in air because he can't see it. Metaphysically speaking, God exists because of His immaterial nature, and since there are immaterial entities which exist in the universe, such as love and truth, it then makes sense that there would be an immaterial Being from which these things come from and have their meaning. Prayer is one of the means by which we humans come into contact with God, being the immaterial Person He is, and He makes His presence very known to those that have "eyes to see" and "ears that hear."

 

[yongrel]

That's "Agnostic".. one isn't sure one way or the other. One who has a lack of belief one way or the other.

An "Atheist", on the other hand, is concrete in their belief that God doesn't exist. They do not "believe" God exists.

In other words, an Agnostic is someone who doesn't - not believe - in God, while at the same time doesn't - believe - in God.

They've drawn no conclusions one way or the other, they have an absence of belief.

While an Atheist is someone who has decided to believe that God does not exist. They have drawn a conclusion. They have a belief.

And it's indeed a belief because they can't prove it, they can only believe it.

Actually, no. Agnosticism isn't a statement about the existence or lack thereof of God. Rather, it's a statement about the nature of knowledge. The term has been misused often, largely to avoid the stigma that is often associated with atheism. Being an "agnostic" only refers to the recognition that human knowledge is finite, and that there are things we will simply not know.

For instance, I am an agnostic atheist, while someone else may be an agnostic theist. To simply be an "agnostic" is to misunderstand the term.

 

[Mark]

Actually, no. Agnosticism isn't a statement about the existence or lack thereof of God. Rather, it's a statement about the nature of knowledge. The term has been misused often, largely to avoid the stigma that is often associated with atheism. Being an "agnostic" only refers to the recognition that human knowledge is finite, and that there are things we will simply not know.

For instance, I am an agnostic atheist, while someone else may be an agnostic theist. To simply be an "agnostic" is to misunderstand the term.

Well, yeah.. but generally people who have no belief one way or the other describe themselves as "Agnostic".
What's a better name? - Is there a designated name?

But the "official" definition does indicate a "belief system". They believe there are things we will not know.

It's not "recognition" in any case, because if it's unprovable, it's a belief.

If an Agnostic is a person who has concluded "that human knowledge is finite, and that there are things we will simply not know",
then that is simply their belief.

 

[Hiki]

I said some Satanists pretend to be Atheists, as well as pretending to be Christians, Muslims ect ect.

It's to hide their true thoughts in order to manipulate events.

I wasn't fear mongering. I didn't say I was afraid of him, or anyone should be afraid of him,
in fact just the opposite, I mocked him by calling him the biggest loser of all Creation.

Which is true btw.

So it's not just mocking or making fun of Satan when I do it, it's also pointing out a fact.

Satan and I are quite familiar with each other. My "pet" name for him is Loserfer.. (a play on his name "Lucifer")

Oh, ok.

Btw you make the classic error that Satanworshipping = Satanism. In fact satanism is very close to atheism. That being said what's wrong with satanism?

edit: And I believe that you have no idea what "Lucifer" actually means, or originally meant.

 

[yongrel]

In fact satanism is very close to atheism.

Wait... what? No, it's really not.

 

[torchbearer]

Wait... what? No, it's really not.

+1. a godless life doesn't entail the worship of any god, even satan or lucifer or baal or beazelbub

 

[Hiki]

Wait... what? No, it's really not.

"In his most important essay, "Satanism: The Feared Religion", the Church of Satan's current leader Peter H. Gilmore states:

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice."

I understand that generally people think that satanism = worshipping the deity Satan, which is wrong when it comes to the true original LaVeyan Satanism.

e. In fact one can find a lot of Ron Paul's message in LaVeyan Satanism.

 

[torchbearer]

"In his most important essay, "Satanism: The Feared Religion", the Church of Satan's current leader Peter H. Gilmore states:

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice."

I understand that generally people think that satanism = worshipping the deity Satan, which is wrong when it comes to the true original LaVeyan Satanism.

e. In fact one can find a lot of Ron Paul's message in LaVeyan Satanism.

That requires a prideful worship of self. You just generalized that all athiest participate in a prideful worship of self.
I haven't met any athiest that worship themselves, most of them were just fed up with bullshit surrounding religious groups. Really had nothing to do with god, and some were even more agnostic in their view.

 

[Hiki]

That requires a prideful worship of self. You just generalized that all athiest participate in a prideful worship of self.
I haven't met any athiest that worship themselves, most of them were just fed up with bullshit surrounding religious groups. Really had nothing to do with god, and some were even more agnostic in their view.

Well i didnt claim that they are the same. But they both denounce supernatural deities and see nature and humans as they are.

 

[torchbearer]

Well i didnt claim that they are the same. But they both denounce supernatural deities and see nature and humans as they are.

that makes them athiest. not satanist.

 

[Hiki]

that makes them athiest. not satanist.

It makes them both? Satanism has nothing to do with the supernatural.

 

[torchbearer]

It makes them both? Satanism has nothing to do with the supernatural.

All satanist are athiest.
But not all athiest or satanist.

 

[Hiki]

All satanist are athiest.
But not all athiest or satanist.

Yes thats my point.

Btw, it's athEIst

 

[torchbearer]

Yes thats my point.

Btw, it's athEIst

thanks for being my spellchecker. You do this professionally?

 

[Mark]

Yes thats my point.

Well your point is wrong, because the Satanists you referenced are ones that do not believe in an actual entity known as Satan
(or by other names as well).

However, there are other Satanists who do in fact know that Satan and other Demonic spirits exist
because they communicate with them regularly.

Those are the Satanists I'm referring to. - Not the fake ones that play Satanists, the real ones who interact with Satan.

They're in no way Atheists, they know full well that the Spiritual dimension exists.

And that the God of the Bible exists, and that the Satan of the Bible exists.

They just choose to worship and serve Satan, and because of it they receive whatever worldly benefits he affords them.

 

[torchbearer]

Well your point is wrong, because the Satanists you referenced are ones that do not believe in an actual entity known as Satan
(or by other names as well)

However, there are other Satanists who do in fact know that Satan and other Demonic spirits exist
because they communicate with them regularly.

Those are the Satanists I'm referring to. - Not the fake ones that play Satanists, the real ones who interact with Satan.

They're in no way Atheists, they know full well that the Spiritual dimension exists.

And that the God of the Bible exists, and that the Satan of the Bible exists.

They just choose to worship and serve Satan, and because of it they receive whatever worldly benefits he affords them.

I don't see any perks to worshiping satan. What perks do they get?

 

[hillbilly123069]

Has anyone come up with a day we can coordinate on?

 

[Mark]

"In his most important essay, "Satanism: The Feared Religion", the Church of Satan's current leader Peter H. Gilmore states:

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice."

I understand that generally people think that satanism = worshipping the deity Satan, which is wrong when it comes to the true original LaVeyan Satanism.

e. In fact one can find a lot of Ron Paul's message in LaVeyan Satanism.

LaVeyan Satanism is one of the types that I refered to as "fake" Satanists - the type that "play" Satanism.

 

[Hiki]

Well your point is wrong, because the Satanists you referenced are ones that do not believe in an actual entity known as Satan
(or by other names as well).

However, there are other Satanists who do in fact know that Satan and other Demonic spirits exist
because they communicate with them regularly.

Those are the Satanists I'm referring to. - Not the fake ones that play Satanists, the real ones who interact with Satan.

They're in no way Atheists, they know full well that the Spiritual dimension exists.

And that the God of the Bible exists, and that the Satan of the Bible exists.

They just choose to worship and serve Satan, and because of it they receive whatever worldly benefits he affords them.

No no, that's different. I was talking about the original Satanism which is LaVeyan Satanism which has no beliefs whatsoever in "Satan". There are satanists whom do believe in deities and many satanworshipers call themselves "satanists" which just confuses people more.

 

[Hiki]

LaVeyan Satanism is one of the types that I refered to as "fake" Satanists - the type that "play" Satanism.

And how are they fake? They dont "play", they exercise satanism.

edit: The satanists you refer to as people who believe/worship Satan, belongs under the category "Theistic Satanism".