I give up (not what you think)

[nate4ron]

This is going to be a quick post and I'm going to to leave out details, since I'm mentally drained right now.

To make an extremely long story short, my family and friends around me (roughly 20 people, excluding my immediate family) are all passionate Barack Obama supporters who know very little about politics and the important issues. All they are sure of is that they hate George W. Bush, and his War in Iraq, and that Obama gives inspiring speeches. Period. Nothing more.

I have had discussions with them about Ron Paul, and more recently, Bob Barr. The closest I have gotten to convincing them is when a few people finally admitted that "Obama will probably not pull through on his promises of pulling the troops out of Iraq or returning to a sensible foreign policy."

Even still, they tell me they are going to vote for Obama, and that it is smarter to vote for the lesser of two evils than to waste a vote! They even want me to just forget about Ron Paul or Bob Barr and to join then in voting for Obama. I tried to explain the myth of the "wasted vote" but they did not particularly care to hear me out.

I had hopes of converting a couple dozen Obama votes to Barr, but I am running out of steam.

And here I have people like Sean Hannity telling me that Bob Barr is an exclusive spoiler to John McCain...

Ever since Ron Paul opened my eyes, I have learned so much, yet it is very difficult and frustrating trying to communicate my rationale to others who would rather watch a Family Guy marathon than have a down-to-earth, non-confrontational talk about politics.

 

[Kraig]

Don't even talk about politics, start teaching them thoroughly about the Federal Reserve.

 

[ladyjade3]

We're your family too.

 

[The_Orlonater]

I gave up too...

 

[TastyWheat]

What was it that changed all of our minds? Chances are it was disappointment. I was disappointed in the Republican party. If you can't convince them with words they'll just have to wait until Obama screws them all over. If you're willing to give it one last shot you should talk to all of your friends and family and find out what their #1 issue is. Before the first debate theirs a good chance Obama will change his mind on those issues.

 

[WarDog]

Nate let them know about the FISA bill and how Obama betrayed the Move on peeps.
These people are Dumb Downed. When Obama voted yes on that bill he essentially
betrayed all his supporters big time.

It is very clear that this man is a Punk Lier and Neo Con. Tell them how Ron never voted for a congresional pay raise and that the others vote themselves more pay and health Bennies
at tax payers expense. I am sure you have done all this so if they refuse to listen it is to there own doom.

We all know your frustration and I myself cant even get my two boys to see this like we do. It is my conclusion that we as brothers and sisters are Eagles in a nest of vultures.
So you can see that it is difficult to fly. But take heart cause when the Eagles flies he is king of the skies. And this Eagle along with the rest of this movement will fly and protect what is rightfully ours cause we cant let the forefathers downed now can we.

 

[electronicmaji]

Simply putt to the common man Bobb Barr and Baldwin votes are wasted votes; its never gonna change anything. There running THIRD PARTIES. Not even independently. Third Parties never do anything; even if they got a record showing; they wouldn't even make the news. People just don't care.

 

[nate4ron]

Nate let them know about the FISA bill and how Obama betrayed the Move on peeps.
These people are Dumb Downed. When Obama voted yes on that bill he essentially
betrayed all his supporters big time.

I explained Obama's support of the FISA bill and his aggressive foreign policy attitude, especially with concerns to Pakistan, but it didn't make any difference to them. The best I can get is out of them is to admit that Obama is not who they think he is, yet they do not want to waste their vote. They even think I'm being delusional, and that I should switch my vote from Barr to Obama.

 

[SnappleLlama]

I feel your pain...I really do. One of my best friends is an Obama supporter, and there's nothing I can do to convince him that Obama is the wrong choice for this country...

 

[Kludge]

Simply putt to the common man Bobb Barr and Baldwin votes are wasted votes; its never gonna change anything. There running THIRD PARTIES. Not even independently. Third Parties never do anything; even if they got a record showing; they wouldn't even make the news. People just don't care.

You complain about the problem, offer no solution, and continue to exacerbate it.



@ OP :

Convert those you know to libertarianism (and MAKE SURE to emphasize propertarianism). We can argue more then politics and issues in a vacuum, we have principles.

A conversion doesn't come from casual conversation about politics. You cannot be non-confrontational, it simply isn't an option. People crave to learn, teach them to think in a new way, not just about one thing in a different way.

So often in canvassing, we're taught to get as many votes as possible in the most efficient manner, skipping over those with misguided principles they're willing to defend and those with a philosophical malaise. Once someone is aware of private property - TRUE private property, it's difficult to pry them away from learning about libertarianism. My favorite example is that of property tax, that no one in America owns land except for an organizational concept we call government. We pay rent to the government to keep our land, and if we miss a payment, are imprisoned.

Private property is such an amazing concept, and one we must all strive toward. Once we own ourselves, we own everything we are capable of, we'll be absolutely free.

 

[Kade]

Nate let them know about the FISA bill and how Obama betrayed the Move on peeps.
These people are Dumb Downed. When Obama voted yes on that bill he essentially
betrayed all his supporters big time.

It is very clear that this man is a Punk Lier and Neo Con. Tell them how Ron never voted for a congresional pay raise and that the others vote themselves more pay and health Bennies
at tax payers expense. I am sure you have done all this so if they refuse to listen it is to there own doom.

We all know your frustration and I myself cant even get my two boys to see this like we do. It is my conclusion that we as brothers and sisters are Eagles in a nest of vultures.
So you can see that it is difficult to fly. But take heart cause when the Eagles flies he is king of the skies. And this Eagle along with the rest of this movement will fly and protect what is rightfully ours cause we cant let the forefathers downed now can we.

I take offense to this...

I think you should stop calling the liberals who support Obama "dumbed down". They can be reached, and they ought not to have your dumb asses insulting them... most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum.

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Try using examples in the news to put what your saying in context. No need to give up completely, just everyonce in a while remind them why it would be a waste to vote for Obama instead of voting for who they truly think would be the best Prez. The election is still a ways off, and its not the end of the world if you don't convert them.

I take offense to this...

I think you should stop calling the liberals who support Obama "dumbed down". They can be reached, and they ought not to have your dumb asses insulting them... most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum.

Intelligence =/= wisdom&knowledge?

Knowledgable Obama supporters seem to be a very small minority, I get the feeling you do not visit any Obama forums.

 

[micahnelson]

I take offense to this...

I think you should stop calling the liberals who support Obama "dumbed down". They can be reached, and they ought not to have your dumb asses insulting them... most of them are vastly more intelligent than the clowns on this forum.

/agreed

How many of us here voted for Bush at least once?

 

[Kade]

/agreed

How many of us here voted for Bush at least once?

Many here did, and I will call names if I have to...

I never did... and I bet I am one of the few.

 

[micahnelson]

I was a Bush voter.

I did it. I did it two times, though thankfully my electoral votes went the other way. God bless the electoral college.

 

[Jaaaman]

I voted for GW twice... he was a far better choice than either Al Gore or John Kerry. I don't regret my choice.

 

[Kade]

Here is an easy way to reach a liberal:

My question: What do you know about the Federal Reserve?

Liberal Response: I don't know much about it, but I believe it is the central banking system that is used to prevent bank runs and panics.

My response: Do you know that it is privately owned, and barely accountable to the people?

Liberal response: Oh Shit.

You see, the liberal brain doesn't need expansive details... they can figure things out themselves... just give them facts, and they will come to a conclusion.

 

[Kludge]

My response: privately owned

Liberal response: Oh Shit.

Did you really have to say anything else?

 

[brandon]

You see, the liberal brain doesn't need expansive details

Are you talking about this?

 

[Kade]

I voted for GW twice... he was a far better choice than either Al Gore or John Kerry. I don't regret my choice.

In your mind, it wasn't a mistake? If that is your stance... we have issue.

I don't know that Gore would have been worse... I don't see the economy suffering this badly.

Gore is much like Clinton... a "Radical Centrist", especially in regards to the economy... you have a really hard sell here.