"I Don't Want Free Will" by Martin Luther

[Southron]

http://www.reformationtheology.com/2011/02/i_dont_want_free_will_by_marti.php

"I frankly confess that, for myself, even if it could be, I should not want "free-will" to be given me, nor anything to be left in my own hands to enable me to endeavour after salvation; not merely because in face of so many dangers, and adversities and assaults of devils, I could not stand my ground ; but because even were there no dangers. I should still be forced to labour with no guarantee of success.¦ But now that God has taken my salvation out of the control of my own will, and put it under the control of His, and promised to save me, not according to my working or running, but according to His own grace and mercy, I have the comfortable certainty that He is faithful and will not lie to me, and that He is also great and powerful, so that no devils or opposition can break Him or pluck me from Him. Furthermore, I have the comfortable certainty that I please God, not by reason of the merit of my works, but by reason of His merciful favour promised to me; so that, if I work too little, or badly, He does not impute it to me, but with fatherly compassion pardons me and makes me better. This is the glorying of all the saints in their God." - Martin Luther, The Bondage of the Will (Grand Rapids: Revell, 1957), 313-314.

 

[Sola_Fide]

+rep

Some people never consider the beautiful and comforting power of knowing that salvation is not of our will.

 

[low preference guy]

Some people never consider the beautiful and comforting power of knowing that salvation is not of our will.

why is it comforting that one is going to hell and can't do anything about it?

 

[Southron]

why is it comforting that one is going to hell and can't do anything about it?

Because apart from the grace of God, all would go to hell.

 

[low preference guy]

Because apart from the grace of God, all would go to hell.

hmmm... it somehow doesn't make me feel any better about going to hell and not being able to do anything about it.

 

[Sola_Fide]

why is it comforting that one is going to hell and can't do anything about it?

The comfort itself is knowing that you can't do anything about it. There is not a work you can do, no action you can perform, no life you can live, no price you can pay, that will gain you access to the kingdom of heaven. Nothing. Your works are rags to a holy God. They mean less than nothing.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

The comfort itself is knowing that you can't do anything about it. There is not a work you can do, no action you can perform, no life you can live, no price you can pay, that will gain you access to the kingdom of heaven. Nothing. Your works are rags to a holy God. They mean less than nothing.

This seems like the exact opposite of what would be considered comforting

 

[Sola_Fide]

This seems like the exact opposite of what would be considered comforting

This is why Christians are Christians and non-Christians are non-Christians. Christians believe that only the works that Jesus did will be accepted by God, so we look in faith only to His works, not our own. We are justified by simple belief.

On the other hand, non-Christians of all stripes think that their own works will merit them before God. So they do work after work...not understanding that God requires absolute obedience and absolute perfection, something no man can ever accomplish. And so their own prideful works send them to hell.

This is the great divide of true religion vs. man-made religion. True religion is monergistic, false religion is synergistic. True religion is faith alone, false religion is faith+works. True religion is trusting in the merits of Christ, false religion is trusting in your own merits.

 

[Sola_Fide]

duplicate, sorry

 

[low preference guy]

This is why Christians are Christians and non-Christians are non-Christians. Christians believe that only the works that Jesus did will be accepted by God, so we look in faith only to His works, not our own. We are justified by simple belief.

On the other hand, non-Christians of all stripes think that their own works will merit them before God. So they do work after work...not understanding that God requires absolute obedience and absolute perfection, something no man can ever accomplish. And so their own prideful works send them to hell.

This is the great divide of true religion vs. man-made religion. True religion is monergistic, false religion is synergistic. True religion is faith alone, false religion is faith+works. True religion is trusting in the merits of Christ, false religion is trusting in your own merits.

I'm quite sure you misinterpreted his post. This is what the poster is referring to mostly:

The comfort itself is knowing that you can't do anything about it.

This seems like the exact opposite of what would be considered comforting

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

This is why Christians are Christians and non-Christians are non-Christians. Christians believe that only the works that Jesus did will be accepted by God, so we look in faith only to His works, not our own. We are justified by simple belief.

On the other hand, non-Christians of all stripes think that their own works will merit them before God. So they do work after work...not understanding that God requires absolute obedience and absolute perfection, something no man can ever accomplish. And so their own prideful works send them to hell.

This is the great divide of true religion vs. man-made religion. True religion is monergistic, false religion is synergistic. True religion is faith alone, false religion is faith+works. True religion is trusting in the merits of Christ, false religion is trusting in your own merits.

But what you seemed to say implied that there was nothing you can do because you're going to get sent to hell if that has been predestined for you regardless if you accept Christ, perform charitable acts, avoid sin, etc.

 

[VIDEODROME]

Kind of makes me curious. Would you say Adam had a choice to fall? I'm guessing if Christianity teaches Original Sin came from his fall, then Adam was first in line to enter Hell. But unlike any of us he would have literally held the key to that door in his hand.

Or was he predestined to fall?

On the other hand would Jesus' sacrifice offer a path to redemption for Adam? Yet if Adam is saved, aren't we all?

 

[Muwahid]

predestination to me sounds like all of our lives are just one big story in one big book, that the author (God) has written, and we have no control over our fates in this story. I find this makes people who believe in predestination feel that because they believe in predestination they must be one of the chosen ones by God (thus feel comforted).

I wouldn't want to be born if I knew from the day I was born I had no choice or no control over where I'm going, afterall we're talking about eternal torment in hell.

 

[low preference guy]

I wouldn't want to be born if I knew from the day I was born I had no choice or no control over where I'm going, afterall we're talking about eternal torment in hell.

doesn't knowing that you can't do anything about it make going to hell much more comforting?

 

[VIDEODROME]

Actually, the way that reads to me, it's as if he does have Free Will but he wants to bargain it away in return for certainty of entering heaven. It sounds like he wants to submit or surrender himself utterly and become like God's hand puppet.

Kind of shifting responsibility of his actions off himself and onto God. If all his actions are "God's Will" then surely he would not be stained by sin. Or if he is at fault it's only because he's an imperfect tool and those minor imperfections can be understood and overlooked.

 

[Sola_Fide]

hmmm... it somehow doesn't make me feel any better about going to hell and not being able to do anything about it.

What can you do about it? That is the question. If what we say is right, and what the Bible says is true, you can't do anything about it. You can't work for you salvation. It is a gift that the Father freely bestows on some people (the ones who believe).

Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

When you believe in Christ alone for salvation, that very belief is a gift of God's grace. Many people never will never receive this gift and God will be absolutely just in punishing those who don't believe because we have broken His law. The wonder is that He saves anyone...even one person.

But without a doubt, without mincing words, there is nothing you can do to save yourself and there is nothing you can do to make yourself "look good to God". We are justified by faith alone, not our works:

Romans 3:28 NIV

For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

 

[Sola_Fide]

But what you seemed to say implied that there was nothing you can do because you're going to get sent to hell if that has been predestined for you regardless if you accept Christ, perform charitable acts, avoid sin, etc.

Well, you make it seem as if there are these people out there who are trying to believe and God is stopping them. That is not the case. We are born at enmity with Him. We are naturally sinners. There isn't anyone who is trying to believe and God is stopping them. The natural disposition of man is unbelief.

If a person does believe, it is because God has chosen to take out their heart of stone and put in a heart of flesh. Men have to be born again to believe. It is a supernatural work of the Spirit that causes belief.

 

[teacherone]

What about good deeds and all that? Basically this is an excuse to forget charity and party.

 

[Sola_Fide]

What about good deeds and all that? Basically this is an excuse to forget charity and party.

A Christian does good deeds because he is saved, not to get saved.

 

[VIDEODROME]

So if you believe, it's because you were picked or chosen? If you don't believe then you wander around lost unless you're picked to become a believer? Or you don't get picked and you're kind of just discarded?