Ditto that. This isn't about right or left, it's about saving our country and putting back on its proper foundation so we can ALL be free. None of the other issues matter if you are losing your country! We must fix that first.
I don't belong here....
- Thread starter eldeeder
- Start date
Ditto that. This isn't about right or left, it's about saving our country and putting back on its proper foundation so we can ALL be free. None of the other issues matter if you are losing your country! We must fix that first.
Wonderful post by the thread starter.
This is truly the essence of why this country needs Ron Paul and his message of freedom as contrasted with the collectivism that dominates US government policies of today. The centralized (and unconstitutional) power now consolidated in Washington is a recipe for disaster, irrespective of whether the corrupt and out-of-control bureacracy centered at the nation's capital (and with tentacles fanned out all across the country) has actually made laws/regulations that you find (or anyone finds) personally attractive.
It is the concentration of power amongst a group of elites (or metastasizing elites) that breeds corruption and begins the inevitable slide toward collectivism as mandated through laws and regulation to further the profits of greedy and powerful collectivists nationwide.
If this power were not concentrated in Washington, as is expressly warned about in the Constitution, then the 'free market' of laws/regulations at the state level would serve as a powerful regulator of collectivism. The nation's founders knew this and were extremely specific in forewarning about the dangers of centralized national power.
It is worthy of all citizens, notwithstanding their personal views on any given issue, to consider this fact above all others if they desire a healthy country founded on truth and individual growth as opposed to mandates from Washington instead founded upon profit, greed, and collectivism.
In honor of this excellent post by the thread starter and his obvious understanding of what ails our country I have just donated another $100 to the Ron Paul campaign. I urge others to do the same.
Thank you, TS.
This is truly the essence of why this country needs Ron Paul and his message of freedom as contrasted with the collectivism that dominates US government policies of today. The centralized (and unconstitutional) power now consolidated in Washington is a recipe for disaster, irrespective of whether the corrupt and out-of-control bureacracy centered at the nation's capital (and with tentacles fanned out all across the country) has actually made laws/regulations that you find (or anyone finds) personally attractive.
It is the concentration of power amongst a group of elites (or metastasizing elites) that breeds corruption and begins the inevitable slide toward collectivism as mandated through laws and regulation to further the profits of greedy and powerful collectivists nationwide.
If this power were not concentrated in Washington, as is expressly warned about in the Constitution, then the 'free market' of laws/regulations at the state level would serve as a powerful regulator of collectivism. The nation's founders knew this and were extremely specific in forewarning about the dangers of centralized national power.
It is worthy of all citizens, notwithstanding their personal views on any given issue, to consider this fact above all others if they desire a healthy country founded on truth and individual growth as opposed to mandates from Washington instead founded upon profit, greed, and collectivism.
In honor of this excellent post by the thread starter and his obvious understanding of what ails our country I have just donated another $100 to the Ron Paul campaign. I urge others to do the same.
Thank you, TS.
Malum Prohibitum
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Welcome. You dont have to like what I like or even like *me* in order to understand that its about The Constitution and the rule of the REAL LAW.
There was a time in this country when the practice and writing of the law was seen as an endeavor to study for truth, akin to philosophy. The Constitution is an expression of that attempt, and an effort by many learned men, to find a means by which to bind the dangerous servant that government is, so that it could do its ONE legitimate purpose, which is to ensure the liberty of the people.
Since then, sadly, the practice and writing of law has been taken over by those who see the law as just a means to an end, with the end chosen by who ever wins the contest of the day. To these people the concept of liberty is an antique, and all that matters is that the policy gets done. This is law without truth or morality. These people must be stopped.
There was a time in this country when the practice and writing of the law was seen as an endeavor to study for truth, akin to philosophy. The Constitution is an expression of that attempt, and an effort by many learned men, to find a means by which to bind the dangerous servant that government is, so that it could do its ONE legitimate purpose, which is to ensure the liberty of the people.
Since then, sadly, the practice and writing of law has been taken over by those who see the law as just a means to an end, with the end chosen by who ever wins the contest of the day. To these people the concept of liberty is an antique, and all that matters is that the policy gets done. This is law without truth or morality. These people must be stopped.
dshields
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Great post eldeeder.
Discussing the amendments like the second in a lot of cases is like trying to convince someone their favorite color is blue when it really is green. People just see things different. What matters in the end is we agree to disagree but continue on doing what we believe as long as it doesn't infringe on each others rights.
I would like to point out to fellow pro-lifers and I am one of them, that it is not logical to "legislate morality". You will save far more unborn children if you use your time educating people about the values of life and showing them acceptance. Morality can only be taught or learned through example not forced by law.
I for one am EXTREMELY encouraged by the sort of unity I am seeing under Ron Paul's message.
Dave
Discussing the amendments like the second in a lot of cases is like trying to convince someone their favorite color is blue when it really is green. People just see things different. What matters in the end is we agree to disagree but continue on doing what we believe as long as it doesn't infringe on each others rights.
I would like to point out to fellow pro-lifers and I am one of them, that it is not logical to "legislate morality". You will save far more unborn children if you use your time educating people about the values of life and showing them acceptance. Morality can only be taught or learned through example not forced by law.
I for one am EXTREMELY encouraged by the sort of unity I am seeing under Ron Paul's message.
Dave
nullvalu
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Absolutely! But if I met you on the street & didn't know you were a Paul supporter, we'd probably end up in a fist fight.
haha
Ninja Homer
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Nice post, eldeeder. You definitely belong here.
I agree with you philosophically about guns. Guns suck. If there was a way to magically remove every single gun (and bomb, and WMD, and nuclear weapon) in the world that would be awesome. However, it isn't ever going to happen, so I have to look at it realistically.
You have to be able to protect your life, family, and property with weapons equal to those being used against you, whether it's a burglar or a corrupt government. It isn't just about self defense, it's about national defense as well. Because there are millions of gun owners in the US, no foreign enemy will even think about trying to occupy the US... it would be impossible.
In my opinion, abortion is looked at as a black and white issue way too often. You're labeled as either pro-life or pro-choice, but there are about a million positions in between. I've never met a pro-choice person who is 100% in favor of Roe v Wade, when they fully understand what it means. Roe v Wade says that somebody can have an abortion a second before a baby is born, and I've never met anybody that agrees with that.
On the other side, I've never met a pro-life person who doesn't agree that a rape victim should be able to take a day-after pill, once they understand how the day-after pill works, and that an egg doesn't become fertilized, get set in the womb, and start to grow for a few days.
I agree with you philosophically about guns. Guns suck. If there was a way to magically remove every single gun (and bomb, and WMD, and nuclear weapon) in the world that would be awesome. However, it isn't ever going to happen, so I have to look at it realistically.
You have to be able to protect your life, family, and property with weapons equal to those being used against you, whether it's a burglar or a corrupt government. It isn't just about self defense, it's about national defense as well. Because there are millions of gun owners in the US, no foreign enemy will even think about trying to occupy the US... it would be impossible.
In my opinion, abortion is looked at as a black and white issue way too often. You're labeled as either pro-life or pro-choice, but there are about a million positions in between. I've never met a pro-choice person who is 100% in favor of Roe v Wade, when they fully understand what it means. Roe v Wade says that somebody can have an abortion a second before a baby is born, and I've never met anybody that agrees with that.
On the other side, I've never met a pro-life person who doesn't agree that a rape victim should be able to take a day-after pill, once they understand how the day-after pill works, and that an egg doesn't become fertilized, get set in the womb, and start to grow for a few days.
You might be interested to know that the US has comparatively far less crime (including violent crime) than most countries in Europe. I thought this was common knowledge by now. The US is higher than most industrialized countries in homicide rate -- there's plenty of evidence to suggest this is an unintended consequence of the War on Drugs -- but lags behind almost every European country in robberies, sexual assaults, and other physical violence. Unless you're a young black male in the southern US involved in the trade of illicit drugs, you're significantly less likely to become a victim of violent crime than someone living in most parts of Europe.
Google "International Crime Victimization Survey" to read about international crime statistics. If you currently believe that the US is a dangerous place, and other industrialized countries are much safer, you'll be shocked. Australia, England & Wales, The Netherlands, Sweden, Canada, Scotland, Denmark, Poland, Belgium, and France all have higher victimization rates than the US.
http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/pdf_files/key2000i/pdf/08-icvs-h2.pdf
Enjoy. Oh, and I'm glad you're a Ron Paul supporter.
davidkachel
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Strange sounding post, I know, but bear with me.
I am what you would probably call a liberal. I am very much pro-choice. I hate guns. I am an atheist. I do think the government should take on certain tasks in which profit should not be a motive. i.e. Air traffic control, health care, and a few other smaller items.
So now, allow me to explain why I am a Ron Paul supporter. I am going to use the example of Guns and Abortion (2 sensitive subjects) for this.
Guns are stupid. Just plain stupid. I'm not going to go into the reasons why, there is no reason to. Im not posting this to argue about guns. Let's just say thats how I feel about the issue, and you'll have a tough time changing it.
Abortion? Right or wrong, it has to remain legal. Why? So it can be regulated, preventing "back-ally" abortions. I don't consider it ethical after the 1st trimester, but, as an atheist, I am conflicted in my own views about this topic, so no reason to force my speculative views upon you.
So... There are my arguments. A lot of people on here would fight me tooth and nail about them, but first let me explain my support of Ron Paul.
Guns? The second amendment. The constitution is NOT pick and choose. Its all or nothing. I hate guns, but understand that gun control only takes guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. I hate guns period, but tough shit for me, the constitution doesn't. If I want to take your guns away, I have to fight to AMEND the constitution. Not just make a law saying "no more guns for you..." And I do understand why our founding fathers wanted the second amendment.
Abortion? Roe v Wade is actually on my side. It upholds my beliefs. Oh, wait though. Its AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION, and like I said people, ITS NOT PICK AND CHOOSE. Ron Paul wants it gone. Not so he can replace it, but because its not the federal governments place.
Thats why I am a Ron Paul supporter. I don't agree with a lot of peoples politics, but I do agree that what we have isn't working. We all need to find a common ground, and what better place than our own constitution.
Anyway, to sum it up, It's NOT about politics anymore! It's about getting back to our senses. Its about waking America up! It's about saying "HEY! Freedom means people can do things you dont approve of! As long as they don't impose upon your freedoms!" (im sure there is a better way to phrase that)
So, while I find I don't agree with many people I meet, I couldn't agree with the movement more.
And let's be honest with ourselves. What fun would any of this be if we all agreed on every issue? Might as well work for fox news then...
DR. RON PAUL ----> The only candidate who is ACTUALLY bringing people together!
Ladies and gentlemen; I give you the foregoing as the very definition of intelligence!
Goldwater Conservative
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Honestly, it all comes down to federalism for me. If most government was state (or preferably even local) I could just move to place where the policies fit my preferences. I don't want to force libertarianism/conservatism on the whole country (as if you could "force" freedom...), but I do want at least one option within the United States that doesn't involve authoritarianism. Hell, give me a single county where I can get that and I'd be fine with the left taking the rest.
So, even if you're a bleeding heart leftist, if you can understand the importance of government being close to home and allowing democratic experimentation, welcome aboard. It's the "one size fits America" crowd that gets to me.
So, even if you're a bleeding heart leftist, if you can understand the importance of government being close to home and allowing democratic experimentation, welcome aboard. It's the "one size fits America" crowd that gets to me.
constituent
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God-loving, gun-totin', conservative (?), "neo-hippie (not my label, but i get called it often enough)"
Glad to have you aboard!
Glad to have you aboard!
Sey.Naci
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Ditto.
davidkachel
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The problem with that is the surrounding counties will feel it is their obligation to bring democracy and justice to you, whether you like it or not. Just as we (a country which is NOT a democracy) are bringing democracy to the rest of the world. (Just think Crusades, without the cross.)
Goldwater Conservative
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But they'd probably be peacenik sheep with few guns and little know-how to use them, while we'd be armed to the teeth militant freedom fighters. Think Israel versus the Middle East.
I am very much pro-choice and have been since abortion was not legal. Remember then abortions were performed illegally and many girls died. Abortions were just driven underground and into the black market. So, Dr. Paul and I disagree on this issue. But, I do feel he will respect my individual liberties. I am thankful that there is the morning after pill. Advances are on the way-- so maybe in the near future, abortion will not be an issue. Welcome .. one more thing -- don't confuse faith with religion --
God did not ruin faith - man did by all that religious dogma -- Welcome, again
God did not ruin faith - man did by all that religious dogma -- Welcome, again
Gadsdenfly
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Freedom and the Constitution is what binds us as a nation. We should be able to see past all the individual issues as no candidate is going to be 100% behind your opinions. I really respect you for seeing beyond these issues and respecting the Constitution. I completely disagree with you on guns and somewhat on the abortion issue but you are RIGHT we should amend the document if we want to change these things not ignore it!
Right on. The argument for legal abortion is the exact same argument for the legalization of drugs. You can't logically support the one and not the other.
Why? Abortions happen at the same rate, legal or illegal. Law has no effect on reducing it, just like with drug use. Keeping it illegal only places the woman in jeopardy in a back alley instead of a hospital room.
Good to see someone else actually understands that.
CelestialRender
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QFT.
aspiringconstitutionalist
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Crazy how I was a Bush/Rudy supporter just a year ago, and now I'm supporting the same candidate that ex-Kucinich supporters are supporting.
