I don't belong here....

eldeeder said:
Strange sounding post, I know, but bear with me.

I am what you would probably call a liberal. I am very much pro-choice. I hate guns. I am an atheist. I do think the government should take on certain tasks in which profit should not be a motive. i.e. Air traffic control, health care, and a few other smaller items.

So now, allow me to explain why I am a Ron Paul supporter. I am going to use the example of Guns and Abortion (2 sensitive subjects) for this.

Guns are stupid. Just plain stupid. I'm not going to go into the reasons why, there is no reason to. Im not posting this to argue about guns. Let's just say thats how I feel about the issue, and you'll have a tough time changing it.

Abortion? Right or wrong, it has to remain legal. Why? So it can be regulated, preventing "back-ally" abortions. I don't consider it ethical after the 1st trimester, but, as an atheist, I am conflicted in my own views about this topic, so no reason to force my speculative views upon you.

So... There are my arguments. A lot of people on here would fight me tooth and nail about them, but first let me explain my support of Ron Paul.

Guns? The second amendment. The constitution is NOT pick and choose. Its all or nothing. I hate guns, but understand that gun control only takes guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. I hate guns period, but tough shit for me, the constitution doesn't. If I want to take your guns away, I have to fight to AMEND the constitution. Not just make a law saying "no more guns for you..." And I do understand why our founding fathers wanted the second amendment.

Abortion? Roe v Wade is actually on my side. It upholds my beliefs. Oh, wait though. Its AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION, and like I said people, ITS NOT PICK AND CHOOSE. Ron Paul wants it gone. Not so he can replace it, but because its not the federal governments place.

Thats why I am a Ron Paul supporter. I don't agree with a lot of peoples politics, but I do agree that what we have isn't working. We all need to find a common ground, and what better place than our own constitution.

Anyway, to sum it up, It's NOT about politics anymore! It's about getting back to our senses. Its about waking America up! It's about saying "HEY! Freedom means people can do things you dont approve of! As long as they don't impose upon your freedoms!" (im sure there is a better way to phrase that)

So, while I find I don't agree with many people I meet, I couldn't agree with the movement more.

And let's be honest with ourselves. What fun would any of this be if we all agreed on every issue? Might as well work for fox news then... :)


DR. RON PAUL ----> The only candidate who is ACTUALLY bringing people together!
Click to expand...

Hey, I'm like you! I'm an atheist, I'm pro-choice, and I don't really like guns. I abhor violence and I don't think I could ever hunt for pleasure. Having lived in Alaska my whole life, I've been around lots and lots of guns, and shot lots of guns, but they were never my cup of tea so to speak. However, I believe entirely in the right of the citizenry to be armed. I think in that respect, I agree with Ron Paul entirely - he seems to share my feelings on the matter exactly.

As far as "pro-choice," I don't want Roe v Wade overturned, but I understand the Constitutional argument for doing so, and I'm willing to go along with it to see some other things happen that I want SO badly to happen.

You said: "HEY! Freedom means people can do things you dont approve of! As long as they don't impose upon your freedoms!" That is practically the entire libertarian philosophy summed up in two sentences.

So, I wouldn't say you're a liberal at all. You're a libertarian, like me.

Our major difference is going to be: Government involvement in things that you don't think should be profit motivated. There are a lot of things that people do that are not profit motivated, but they do them without Government interference anyway. Furthermore, I don't believe there's much that can't be profit motivated, and I believe that charity and profit organizations can co-exist within the same market or industry and provide different sorts of service. This happens naturally with things like health care, as long as its allowed to. I also believe that profit motives are quite necessary in health care... we need the newer technology and we need the highly trained doctors and researchers.

There are certain things that the government needs to be involved in, obviously, but I limit those to the legal system, the police force, public transportation and roads, and national defense.

I don't want the FCC or FAA abolished. I know that's unrealistic and would cause great confusion. I do think that alternative solutions could be allowed to compete, some rules could be changed, and gradually over time we would find less and less of a need in society for these institutions.
 
eldeeder said:
Strange sounding post, I know, but bear with me.

I am what you would probably call a liberal. I am very much pro-choice. I hate guns. I am an atheist. I do think the government should take on certain tasks in which profit should not be a motive. i.e. Air traffic control, health care, and a few other smaller items.

So now, allow me to explain why I am a Ron Paul supporter. I am going to use the example of Guns and Abortion (2 sensitive subjects) for this.

Guns are stupid. Just plain stupid. I'm not going to go into the reasons why, there is no reason to. Im not posting this to argue about guns. Let's just say thats how I feel about the issue, and you'll have a tough time changing it.

....

DR. RON PAUL ----> The only candidate who is ACTUALLY bringing people together!
Click to expand...

Freedom Does Bring Us Together!

Not wanting to argue your hatred of guns, but how is an inanimate object stupid?

I'm guessing you hate guns just because you think it makes it too easy for people to kill each other.

Of course stupid people use guns for bad reasons, but guns are incapable of being stupid, or smart, or anything.

They are just a tool.

Trying to wish them away is like trying to wish death away; It's not going to happen.

Now what I think is "stupid" is lying. It's easy to identify the simply violent individuals since they can't mask their behavior very well.

It's the pathological liars that I don't like since they can conceal their violent/criminal intents from the majority of honest folk.

I'm waiting for the Truth Machine myself, that'll revolutionize Justice!
 
An impressive post, to say the least. It's a shame that the majority of Republicans (the Non-Ron Paul type) don't see it that way. Personally, I agree with Dr. Paul on a majority of his platform. I don't agree with building a fence on our southern border - I think having our troops there to guard it is sufficient (a human wall, if you will) but other than that, I find very little to disagree with. The 2nd amendment is what it is. Abortions should be regulated at the state level - as should drugs, etc.... Like you, I believe the answers lie in the constitution and the amendment process. If enough people feel that there is an egregious wrong in society that can be righted by amending the constitution, then so be it. That is all that is asked - use the process. It works, and will continue to work as long as we abide by it.
 
I wish you would submit a shortened version of this to every newspaper's letter to the editor page.

You have hit the nail on the head, and I think more people need to hear/see/read this perspective.

Rev
 
Guns are stupid. They only serve to kill. But the government has them, and so we should have them. That's my stance.
 
I know where you're coming from... I grew up in a enthusiastically Republican household, but started seeing things differently when I'd been out on my own for a while. In 2000, I considered myself to have no allegiance to either of the Big Two. I sided with Bush during the election scandals - my first big mistake. As 2001 progressed, the more vacation time GW took, the more I felt like we put the wrong guy in office. After 9/11, I tried to roll with Bush but that didn't last long when I realized his way of fighting terrorism was going to bring the country to ruin and infringe on my civil liberties. I started reading international newspapers and found out just how devious his strategies appeared to be.

Had I been wrong?

The more I learned about the politics and history of the Middle East, the more I was convinced that yes, I was wrong. When the US invaded Iraq, I just shook my head. I wrote hand-written letters to my H of R rep and both of my Senators to express my frustration that we were going down a bad road. All 3 replied to say that they absolutely agree (Sen. Lugar's response being the most personalized.) So why don't they do anything? It became clear that all of the deal-making, backslapping and rally around the leader meant that nothing was going to happen unless we started electing people who would stand up and be counted, even if it were unpopular. I noted Ron Paul as being one of the few who did that back when Congress had the power to stop the Iraq War from happening.

Fast forward to now, I've gotten to know Ron Paul's platform a lot better. I'm a liberal but as a for instance, I wholeheartedly agree that we should sack the Department of Education and take a fresh look at how we can improve as a country. You can't do that with a huge, centralized government. It just promotes mediocrity. Finally, I'm a history student and it worries me that we'll end up like the rest of the empires that rose and fell with a thud.
 
Remember Dr. Paul doesn't own a gun either, but of course he did have to use it in the army. I like guns, but safety and respect always comes first, that is the first thing you learn at a gun club.

And my favorite quote:

"Ron [Paul] was also nice enough to autograph my rifle stock. He didn't even flinch when I handed it to him [at a rally]. I don't think you'll find many other candidates willing to do the same." - Andrew Kovacs
Click to expand...
 
Welcome and happy to have you. Believe me, you are far from the first confirmed "lefty" or "liberal" to join our ranks. It's all about liberty and it's a funny thing - the message of freedom resonates with most people once they get to hear it and understand it. I respect your feelings about guns, but you might want to remember that first step taken by every would be authoritarian society is to disarm the populace. That is specifically what the founders had in mind when the added the 2nd amendment. You might also be interested to know that the first guns laws were directed at blacks - to disarm them so they couldn't defend themselves. In the same way the "War on drugs" was originally initiated as a way to persecute minorities. If it were true that an armed, law abiding populace made the world a more dangerous place I would be inclined to agree with your sentiments (though I would still support gun rights on principle) but that just isn't the case. Gun control laws only effect the law abiding and makes them more vulnerable to those who are inclined to disregard the law.

As it happens - our most vulnerable citizens, those living in high crime inner city areas (a product of drug prohibition) are essentially prevented from being able to legally defend themselves against brutal thugs who are only to happy to buy their weapons (of whatever sort they like - even full auto - with the mountains of money they have made selling illegal drugs) on the black market. People need to understand this - gun control laws only effect the law abiding, leaving them vulnerable to the most evil among us. The right to self defense is fundamental as is the right to throw of oppressive government - which is what the founders had in mind with the 2nd amendment.

Another thing it took me some time to understand - economic liberty and personal liberty are inextricably linked and you can't have one without the other. Governments - all governments always - serve primarily the interests of the powerful, so it behooves those of us who value liberty to understand the importance of not having a government any more big or powerful than it needs to be to perform it's basic, primary function - to protect liberty.

I might add, you do belong here. You just didn't realize it until now. Believe me we have all types here - which is terrific - all tied together in the belief in liberty and self ownership.
 
Last edited:
No, you belong here. You speak common sense, a language long since abandoned.

Bill Maher has a great bit about this in his stand up routine. He has opinions and views just like you, but always trumps his views with "I don't ask that you LEGISLATE my taste!" That's what we have done. We have legislated the taste of big business, soccer moms, organized religion, liberals, etc. when instead, we should have been protecting the rights of others that don't necessarily believe the same.
 
You would be surprised how many people in the RP camp feel like you do.:eek: I'm a republican myself and happen to agree with everything the good doctor has to say.:D You are definitely in the right place.
 
eldeeder said:
Strange sounding post, I know, but bear with me.

I am what you would probably call a liberal. I am very much pro-choice. I hate guns. I am an atheist. I do think the government should take on certain tasks in which profit should not be a motive. i.e. Air traffic control, health care, and a few other smaller items.

So now, allow me to explain why I am a Ron Paul supporter. I am going to use the example of Guns and Abortion (2 sensitive subjects) for this.

Guns are stupid. Just plain stupid. I'm not going to go into the reasons why, there is no reason to. Im not posting this to argue about guns. Let's just say thats how I feel about the issue, and you'll have a tough time changing it.

Abortion? Right or wrong, it has to remain legal. Why? So it can be regulated, preventing "back-ally" abortions. I don't consider it ethical after the 1st trimester, but, as an atheist, I am conflicted in my own views about this topic, so no reason to force my speculative views upon you.

So... There are my arguments. A lot of people on here would fight me tooth and nail about them, but first let me explain my support of Ron Paul.

Guns? The second amendment. The constitution is NOT pick and choose. Its all or nothing. I hate guns, but understand that gun control only takes guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens. I hate guns period, but tough shit for me, the constitution doesn't. If I want to take your guns away, I have to fight to AMEND the constitution. Not just make a law saying "no more guns for you..." And I do understand why our founding fathers wanted the second amendment.

Abortion? Roe v Wade is actually on my side. It upholds my beliefs. Oh, wait though. Its AGAINST THE CONSTITUTION, and like I said people, ITS NOT PICK AND CHOOSE. Ron Paul wants it gone. Not so he can replace it, but because its not the federal governments place.

Thats why I am a Ron Paul supporter. I don't agree with a lot of peoples politics, but I do agree that what we have isn't working. We all need to find a common ground, and what better place than our own constitution.

Anyway, to sum it up, It's NOT about politics anymore! It's about getting back to our senses. Its about waking America up! It's about saying "HEY! Freedom means people can do things you dont approve of! As long as they don't impose upon your freedoms!" (im sure there is a better way to phrase that)

So, while I find I don't agree with many people I meet, I couldn't agree with the movement more.

And let's be honest with ourselves. What fun would any of this be if we all agreed on every issue? Might as well work for fox news then... :)


DR. RON PAUL ----> The only candidate who is ACTUALLY bringing people together!
Click to expand...

I agree with you on abortion, but have you ever considered guns being important for hunting reasons? Some people can't afford to go the grocery store and buy overpriced meat. Also for those like myself who go camping, you need a gun for protection from wild animals. I'm guessing you live in the city or suburbs so you're not familiar with rural culture. You should go camping sometime.
 
Hey man (or woman) read my reasons why I support Ron Paul in my Signature.

You might find you belong here after all :D
 
eldeeder said:
...but understand that gun control only takes guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.
Click to expand...

I use to be anti-gun also but when I read something similar to your statement above, it changed my whole paradigm on the subject in seconds. It just made so much sense. I had a self "duh" moment.
 
crazyfacedjenkins said:
I agree with you on abortion, but have you ever considered guns being important for hunting reasons? Some people can't afford to go the grocery store and buy overpriced meat. Also for those like myself who go camping, you need a gun for protection from wild animals. I'm guessing you live in the city or suburbs so you're not familiar with rural culture. You should go camping sometime.
Click to expand...

Guns have nothing to do with hunting.

Look at the mass genocides throughout history. They were all preceded by gun confiscation, and gun confiscation is usually preceded by gun registration.

Also, look into the Warsaw ghetto uprising, and what a few determined folks with guns can accomplish against tyranny and oppression.
 
Amen brother! "I may disagree with what you say, but I'd defend to the death your right to say it" Voltaire

I don't disagree with everything you say...just it is okay to not agree, but agreeing on the Constitution and freedom is where it is at :D
 
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