Rick Santorum I almost became a fan of Rick Santorum tonight.

Rights come from men that fought for them not from God. The founding fathers were not Christian. Sorry to disappoint.
King was considered God`s emissary on earth. Most Christians considered rebellion against the King as rebellion against God.

The God of the bible was not the Creator founding fathers had in mind, a God that interferes in the daily lives on people. They had a pantheist belief, one for which people like Giordano Bruno were burned at stake by Catholic church.
Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists. We'll never know; but by reading their own writings, it's clear that most of them were opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.
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http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
 
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eduardo89 said:
Do you even know what cult means or it's etymology?
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It's history/how it should be used doesn't matter. What matters is that it has a pretty negative connotation in modern american culture and is often used as an insult.
 
tttppp said:
Zero=Infinity is the real law of the universe. The universe has always existed an therefor was never created. So there can be no God. Just individuals with varying degrees of power. Your rights come from people in power whether you like it or not.
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There has to be a beginning.
 
JuicyG said:
Rights come from men that fought for them not from God. The founding fathers were not Christian. Sorry to disappoint.
King was considered God`s emissary on earth. Most Christians considered rebellion against the King as rebellion against God.

The God of the bible was not the Creator founding fathers had in mind, a God that interferes in the daily lives on people. They had a pantheist belief, one for which people like Giordano Bruno were burned at stake by Catholic church. http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
Click to expand...
Many of the founders were indeed christian and blanket statements just generalize this stuff.
 
Jtorsella said:
It's history/how it should be used doesn't matter. What matters is that it has a pretty negative connotation in modern american culture and is often used as an insult.
Click to expand...

That's your perception of the word. It's not my problem if it offends you if you don't even know what it means.
 
PaulConventionWV said:
Think about what you just said. Where do rights come from if not from God? Do they come from the dirt? The inescapable conclusion is that they come from the state, or the group of men who have the power to make the rules at the time. That's who gives you your rights if not God.
Click to expand...

You just answered your question. Your rights come from people in power.
 
I'd just like to ask that you guys respect the athiest. I used to be one, and was shown that spirituality is in fact real, and there are spiritual dimensions which our earthly bodies cannot fully perceive.

Look into, "the spirit molecule"
 
JuicyG said:
Rights come from men that fought for them not from God. The founding fathers were not Christian. Sorry to disappoint.
King was considered God`s emissary on earth. Most Christians considered rebellion against the King as rebellion against God.

The God of the bible was not the Creator founding fathers had in mind, a God that interferes in the daily lives on people. They had a pantheist belief, one for which people like Giordano Bruno were burned at stake by Catholic church. http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
Click to expand...

You're wrong.

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence

  • Charles Carroll - Catholic
  • Samuel Huntington - Congregationalist
  • Roger Sherman - Congregationalist
  • William Williams - Congregationalist
  • Oliver Wolcott - Congregationalist
  • Lyman Hall - Congregationalist
  • Samuel Adams - Congregationalist
  • John Hancock - Congregationalist
  • Josiah Bartlett - Congregationalist
  • William Whipple - Congregationalist
  • William Ellery - Congregationalist
  • John Adams - Congregationalist; Unitarian
  • Robert Treat Paine - Congregationalist; Unitarian
  • George Walton - Episcopalian
  • John Penn - Episcopalian
  • George Ross - Episcopalian
  • Thomas Heyward Jr. - Episcopalian
  • Thomas Lynch Jr. - Episcopalian
  • Arthur Middleton - Episcopalian
  • Edward Rutledge - Episcopalian
  • Francis Lightfoot Lee - Episcopalian
  • Richard Henry Lee - Episcopalian
  • George Read - Episcopalian
  • Caesar Rodney - Episcopalian
  • Samuel Chase - Episcopalian
  • William Paca - Episcopalian
  • Thomas Stone - Episcopalian
  • Elbridge Gerry - Episcopalian
  • Francis Hopkinson - Episcopalian
  • Francis Lewis - Episcopalian
  • Lewis Morris - Episcopalian
  • William Hooper - Episcopalian
  • Robert Morris - Episcopalian
  • John Morton - Episcopalian
  • Stephen Hopkins - Episcopalian
  • Carter Braxton - Episcopalian
  • Benjamin Harrison - Episcopalian
  • Thomas Nelson Jr. - Episcopalian
  • George Wythe - Episcopalian
  • Thomas Jefferson - Episcopalian (Deist)
  • Benjamin Franklin - Episcopalian (Deist)
  • Button Gwinnett - Episcopalian; Congregationalist
  • James Wilson - Episcopalian; Presbyterian
  • Joseph Hewes - Quaker, Episcopalian
  • George Clymer - Quaker, Episcopalian
  • Thomas McKean - Presbyterian
  • Matthew Thornton - Presbyterian
  • Abraham Clark - Presbyterian
  • John Hart - Presbyterian
  • Richard Stockton - Presbyterian
  • John Witherspoon - Presbyterian
  • William Floyd - Presbyterian
  • Philip Livingston - Presbyterian
  • James Smith - Presbyterian
  • George Taylor - Presbyterian
  • Benjamin Rush - Presbyterian
 
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PaulConventionWV said:
"Rights come from God... not from the state."

I know, I know. He's just pandering. But he seems like a smart guy, and this is one of the most intelligent things I've ever heard anyone beside Ron Paul say in the last two elections.
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Sorry buddy, you will never convert a Ron Paul supporter to a Santorum supporter.

As for atheism and God, yes there are even some atheists supporting Ron Paul. All kinds of people are supporting Ron Paul so we don't want to start a debate that can hurt people's personal beliefs here. We need to stand united and support our candidate.

Ron Paul 2012.
 
God is perfect. He does not take away rights because they are there for a reason. If there is no God to hold man accountable, then your rights can be taken away no matter where you believe they come from, so your point is moot.
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Here you are making an argument that stems from the "there is no morality without god" argument.I believe differently, and think that rational morality is a part of the living condition of every human.
If you believe rights are inherent in each individual not because God guaranteed them, but by the individuals themselves, then they can only be governed by people.
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Or, they are entirely governed by the individual. No one has the right to regulate my rights.
That means the state has the most power, and therefore, they decide who has rights and who does not.
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No, you are again implying that the only way an individual's rights are inalienable is if they are backed up by some mystical force. I believe that it is not necessary to have omnipotent sanction for your rights to be inalienable, just as many founding fathers did not believe in the need for a Bill of rights because rights are self evident.
 
both sides are blind
and in a lot of ways pretty disrespectful to each other
it takes two to tango

Atheists and Christians

Democrats and Republicans

of course not all
 
Pharisees put the state in place of God, so they can go back and forth there without creating painful dissonance in their cognition.
 
tttppp said:
Zero=Infinity is the real law of the universe. The universe has always existed an therefore was never created. So there can be no God. Just individuals with varying degrees of power. Your rights come from people in power whether you like it or not.
Click to expand...

Thank you, Chariman Mao, for completely justifying statism.

However, your assertion that the universe has always existed still has the same problems. What was the original force that made the universe evolve into what it is? Also, it is nonsense to say that matter can always exist. It had to have a beginning somewhere. Nothing can begin to exist without an original force. This is a logical fact. What was the original force? You can't have one unless there was a source for it. If there was no original intelligence that initiated it, then there was no original force. Things don't "just happen." If you want to believe that something can happen with no original input, then be my guest, but that is far from a logical position.
 
DOES he believe what he says? A lot can be traced to looking up his background.
 
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