Hundreds of thousands of Master's degree holders, PhDs on food stamps

[Brian4Liberty]

Let's honestly analyze this situation please. Tewnty-five to thirty years ago, those of us who went to college, were going there because we WERE QUALIFIED and could afford it (either through parents, scholarships, and/or loans which which you had to have some ability to prove you could pay back).

Yeah, the whole student loan industry didn't exist back then. Very few people borrowed money to go to college. Your parents paid, or you made enough money to pay on your own. Where do college students work today to earn money for college? Many of those jobs are now permanently occupied by recent immigrants.

Now, government has had a big role too. Tax incentives for off-shoring and on-shoring does not help. It should not cost less (disregarding salary) to hire foreigners than Americans. I see it in IT.

To add to this, let me venture into the realm of "conspiracy". Pure crazy talk here.

Let's imagine that a group of people have a desire to deficit spend. We'll call them government. We can also imagine that these people will engage in inflating the money supply in order to keep the gravy train rolling. Let's imagine that the people given the task of solving this problem are at the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, and Wall St. Someone has an idea: price inflation only occurs when there is wage inflation. We can offset monetary inflation if we can reduce labor costs and wages. The Wall St boys say, "how about we import more workers of all kinds, we knew that reduces our costs, and it will help with your inflation concerns". Great idea! The Wall St. boys come back and say "that works so well, we can also send the work out of the country, that will reduce our cost even more, and work even better at preventing your inflation problem". Everybody wins (at least everybody in the room).

But hey, that's just crazy talk (except for the fact that Alan Greenspan has admitted that reduced labor costs was key to his inflation formula).

 

[LibForestPaul]

I have nephew that thinks going to a community college for "classes", while he has no major or any career field plans, is going to get him somewhere other than debt. They drill this higher education stuff into their minds so much that it's all they think about.

If he has no idea where to go, community college is best place for him. Plus, get him into volunteer work with churches and hospitals.

 

[LibForestPaul]

But, but, but ...there aren't any educated Americans! We must import educated workers. Americans are too stupid. If we just spend an extra trillion dollars on the Department of Education, then maybe Americans can become intelligent. Or maybe not.

there aren't any educated Americans! We must import educated indentured serfes on visas and not give them citizenship. Americans are too stupid. If we just spend an extra trillion dollars on the Department of Education, then maybe Americans can become intelligent. Or maybe not

 

[LibForestPaul]

I wonder if it has become easier to get a degree today than it was, say 60 years ago. Are the universities lowering the standards and allowing more people to get the degrees? Maybe some of these folks would have been better off taking up a trade after high school. There is no shame in that. I'm surprised that bigger entities like corporations don't have their own universites. They could take only as many students as they need and have their employees trained for their position right out of school.
I can understand the frustration of those who can't find work with higher degrees. If they want to work at a fast food place and a few other low paying jobs just to get by, they might not hire you because you are considered "over qualified".

Yes, they are. They take students knowing less than 1/3 rd will even get a masters. They will take foreigners who will "make up shit" on their resume. and on and on.

 

[LibForestPaul]

I can say the same thing to the borrower, if he/she knows he/she can't be bailed out or let off the hook, maybe he/she will exercise caution.

Not quite. Because in the end, it will require a judge, a court, a sheriff, and eventually violence to collect. The lender is the one that needs the exercise in caution.

 

[alucard13mmfmj]

I have a BS degree in human biology.. but I am stuck in the mud because my GPA sucks 2.9. my major gpa is... let's just say its not better.

Not sure what went wrong. I was mainly a B student with sprinkles of A and C. I guess my C's outnumbered my A's in the end =(.

Here is some advice folks
1) go into a major you REALLY want to be in (i wanted to be in computer/internet related, but my dad say no good. outsourced.)
2) dont take classes based on what your friends do or dont change majors because you have friends in that major (i was originally general biology, but i changed to biology because a few of my close, former friends is in that major and some of our classes are the same. but i switched anyways beecaues general biology was too "vague". human bio was a lot harder lets say.)
3) only study with hard working and serious students. it was one of the reason why i switched majors, because the friends i knew were serious. we'd often spend 1-3 hours trying to solve one problem together.
4) ALWAYS get experience. It is something I lacked and I now suffer the consequences. IT is much easier to get internships and experience if you are a student. After you graduate, you will realize you need that experience to be even on the radar for hiring managers.

Overall, I failed college even though I graduated. Crappy grades, no experience in my field and I neglected to get recommendations.

If I could.. I would've went into internet/computers/graphic arts mainly because those are my interests and where I feel comfortable with.

I got my first job actually.. working at the post office as casual/seasonal. so now im just applying to places like sam's club, target, costco, etc etc.

 

[MelissaWV]

This is the attitude that will turn these United States into a third-world nation.

And that attitude that thinks it's okay is why I am not a full-bore libertarian.

You're honestly barking up the wrong tree on this one with me.

I have been homeless, and I have been a part of a six-figure household. I have had to support four people, and I have had only myself. I have had $1/day budget for food, and I have had virtually unlimited funds to do what I please (since I'm really not into the "luxury lifestyle," anyhow). You talk about wishing you'd learned more from your dad? How about your kids learn to scrounge a bit It isn't a third-world nation just because you "only" theoretically make $58k per year. Since you were also talking about a two-parent household, between you and the theoretical wife in the picture, the income should be considerably higher.

Incidentally, the $58k number came up because you were absolutely shocked that some foreigner would accept such a paltry sum. It doesn't seem paltry to me. If you "made your plans" based on the idea of making six figures all your life through retirement, and got into debt based on that alarmingly short-sighted and idiotic assumption, then yes you are going to wind up paying the price. Your children won't go to private schools, unless you work with them and try to gain a scholarship for them, or a work exchange arrangement. Your house will not be quite as grand. Your children might even have to share a room!!! Lord knows these are all death sentences.

If you were worth the six-figure income, you will find a way --- or multiple ways --- to bounce back. Someone will hire you, you'll have a spectacular idea and hire yourself, or you will claw your way from a low-level job to a much more agreeable one. Or your spouse will!

My memory of the American Dream is a wee bit fuzzy, but I don't recall it being handed to anyone. Most of the time it involves some very hard work, a lot of dark times, tenacity, and adaptation.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I have a BS degree in human biology.. but I am stuck in the mud because my GPA sucks 2.9. my major gpa is... let's just say its not better.

Not sure what went wrong. I was mainly a B student with sprinkles of A and C. I guess my C's outnumbered my A's in the end =(.

Here is some advice folks
1) go into a major you REALLY want to be in (i wanted to be in computer/internet related, but my dad say no good. outsourced.)
2) dont take classes based on what your friends do or dont change majors because you have friends in that major (i was originally general biology, but i changed to biology because a few of my close, former friends is in that major and some of our classes are the same. but i switched anyways beecaues general biology was too "vague". human bio was a lot harder lets say.)
3) only study with hard working and serious students. it was one of the reason why i switched majors, because the friends i knew were serious. we'd often spend 1-3 hours trying to solve one problem together.
4) ALWAYS get experience. It is something I lacked and I now suffer the consequences. IT is much easier to get internships and experience if you are a student. After you graduate, you will realize you need that experience to be even on the radar for hiring managers.

Overall, I failed college even though I graduated. Crappy grades, no experience in my field and I neglected to get recommendations.

If I could.. I would've went into internet/computers/graphic arts mainly because those are my interests and where I feel comfortable with.

I got my first job actually.. working at the post office as casual/seasonal. so now im just applying to places like sam's club, target, costco, etc etc.

I have a CCL in computer graphic design. I can tell you that all the employers I've inquired of wanted at least a BA and experience. :/ I could take an internship cheaply, but I don't have the money for a degree. However, if you have the skills you can freelance. I need to try that one of these days... (I've heard good things about elance.com)

ETA: it's pretty cheap to become Adobe certified. Just get the Classroom In A Book series and take Adobe's certification test. The pros I met in design school did that.

 

[fr33]

If he has no idea where to go, community college is best place for him. Plus, get him into volunteer work with churches and hospitals.

I think he should get a job. There's a lot of jobs available. Not glamorous or comfortable type of jobs but....

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I fail to see a problem here,other than the fact that they are getting food stamps,of course.Do away with food stamps and such socialist truck and I would see no problem at all.

In any free market economy,if hundreds of thousands of people are shelling out billions of dollars for a degree that others consider worthless,well that sounds like a personal problem,not a market failure.

Suppose that hundreds of thousands of people were going into billions of dollars of debt to study how to be snake charmers or buggy whip makers,what debt does the rest of society owe them for their perhaps less than timely or intelligent choice?

Nobody is forced to go to college,let alone get a higher degree.If the Masters or higher degree works out for you,great.If it doesn't,don't expect others to pay for your groceries.

It sounds like you are missing the point of this thread. Nobody is saying it's a market failure. In fact, the reason education costs are so high are because of all the subsidation of the education industry. Of course we're not being forced to go to college. We're not trying to find problems with liberty in this. We're just lamenting the state of affairs when people think it's important to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt for something that may not even land them a job. The college degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on BECAUSE of government education.

If so many people are shelling out all that money for something that's worthless, that's got to be a sign of something. It's not just a fluke that all those individuals strive for something that's worthless. It's a sign that government intervention has made it so that people put more value on something than it's wroth because 1) propaganda says that's the only way to get a job and 2) The government subsidizes it, so people are less careful with their money. They take out huge loans because they think it's what they're supposed to do, and sacrifice their life savings only to get a minimum wage job to pay off the debt.

Again, nobody here is saying the fact that people do this is a "problem." It's just plain sad and it's a sign that government is way too involved in our lives.

 

[Tpoints]

Not quite. Because in the end, it will require a judge, a court, a sheriff, and eventually violence to collect. The lender is the one that needs the exercise in caution.

except the government pretty much already gives a guarantee that they'll enforce contracts unless they're fraudulent. it's only recently changed to favor borrowers.

 

[bolil]

And plumbers are still rodding our drains.

 

[Tpoints]

Of course it did. It did for almost EVERYBODY since the founding of the nation until sometime in the 1990's.



That's a complete strawman argument. There are still plenty of skilled tradesmen out there who are older and do quality work. The issue here are the people 30 and under who think they HAVE to go to college or they'll "work" in a trade. Funny thing is, most of the younger guys who've come to do work screw it up, and the company owner has to come fix the damage.

I NEVER said ALL blue collar jobs are taken by idiots. All I said were younger people not in college or having gone to college who are in trades who are under 30 tend to be less skilled, less motivated, and tend to do a crappy job.

You certainly have a way with putting words in people's mouths.

so let me see if I got it right this time : not all blue collars are idiots, just the under 30 ones.

 

[bolil]

Like spinoza said, every man should learn a trade. Women too. Trades, like plumbing, are always in demand. Actually plumbing is the most important trade...ever.

Don't have dysentery? Thank a plumber.

 

[Tpoints]

If you lived within your means at $100k for multiple years, why are you blasting that person for saying that living on $58k becomes almost impossible?

Because it's not impossible. It's impossible to sustain the 100K lifestyle, but not impossible to stop doing it.

I don't get it, a responsible person becomes irresponsible?

I never said that, so I have no idea what you mean.

I don't understand why a person who put over 20% down on a mortgage with a reasonable payment based on a $100k salary is suddenly irresponsible.

Because you think you have that salary guaranteed for the next 30 years, and would rather risk losing your house then to secure one (cheaper) house first. But all that aside, things happen, you can always sell your house.

I don't understand why a person who wishes to put their child in private school (which I thought was all the rage around here) cannot because of a salary slash is now irresponsible.

No, it's not outrageous to put your kids in expensive education if you can afford it. If you can't, you'll just have to cut back, it's not the end of the world.

I guess when a person was making $100k a year they're supposed to live like they're on food stamps...got it.

I didn't say that, but at least, if you did, you'd not find it impossible if you got a 80% salary cut. You'd not be worrying about foreclosure or collections...you might regret not buying something, but you'll never regret having bought something you didn't need. Living within your means, even to the extreme, is better than the alternative, at least it preserves your choices (but hey, if that's going to kill you, don't hurt yourself)

 

[MelissaWV]

Like spinoza said, every man should learn a trade. Women too. Trades, like plumbing, are always in demand. Actually plumbing is the most important trade...ever.

Don't have dysentery? Thank a plumber.

The "plumbers" in this town are mostly called out to unclog drains or stop dripping faucets... stuff households used to not have to send out for. They are making an absolute killing.

 

[Tpoints]

The "plumbers" in this town are mostly called out to unclog drains or stop dripping faucets... stuff households used to not have to send out for. They are making an absolute killing.

they won't if there's more people doing it.

 

[Seraphim]

Income tax rates have nothing to do with the regulatory and legal costs of hiring an actual person.

Is that how GE gets away with paying a 2.3% tax rate over the last decade, because of all the costs and regulations? Corporations know the "loopholes" and to think that regulations are the reason to not hire Americans is ignoring that reality.

 

[MelissaWV]

they won't if there's more people doing it.

People in this area aren't going to learn to do it themselves, and handyman services are actually difficult to obtain. There's a shortage because it's not really considered a good job in this town lol No, here you work at the hospital, or you work at the university, or you are a lawyer... and if you're not... well, then you should be aspiring to one of those things!

Which is why guys can get away with charging a bunch of money to come in, loosen a screw, pull the drain up, reach in with some pliers, and nab the nasty multi-roomie hair clog out of the drain. If more people want to do it, then yes, the amount charged will fall. With the attitudes aren't here, though, I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

 

[Tpoints]

People in this area aren't going to learn to do it themselves, and handyman services are actually difficult to obtain. There's a shortage because it's not really considered a good job in this town lol No, here you work at the hospital, or you work at the university, or you are a lawyer... and if you're not... well, then you should be aspiring to one of those things!

Which is why guys can get away with charging a bunch of money to come in, loosen a screw, pull the drain up, reach in with some pliers, and nab the nasty multi-roomie hair clog out of the drain. If more people want to do it, then yes, the amount charged will fall. With the attitudes aren't here, though, I don't think that will happen anytime soon.

I should move into your town! EVERYBODY LISTEN, BLUE COLLAR JOB OPPORTUNITIES MAKING BANK IN MELISSA'S CITY