How to Win Over the Religious Right

[georgiaboy]

Gunny knows the formula for success:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...Evangelicals&p=2648396&viewfull=1#post2648396

Gunny for Ron's VP!

 

[pcosmar]

Is there a Religious Left?
If so, we should go after them.

Yes there is, and yes we should. Same way, one on one.
Find their issues and deconstruct socialism and false promises with truth and logic.

I wish the abortion issue was not as big an issue as it is. But I point out that most (if not all) that have used that issue in the past have not done anything about it past using it for votes. (Bart Stupak for example, in my area)

 

[pcosmar]

I am an atheist that is openly hostile toward Christianity. The religious right has never given us freedom, they are not to be respected. The religious right gives us prohibition, wars, and suppression of scientific knowledge.

Open hostility to the largest voting block and pandering to the smallest voting block (militant atheists) is not a good strategy.

Fortunately, Ron does not pander.

 

[silentshout]

As a non-religious person, I too am uncomfortable when politicians pander to the religious right. I understand that it is necessary, but it still gets under my skin. The thing about them is that they just love the candidates who constantly talk about their faith, and they don't seem to like ones who just live their faith, like Ron Paul does. Seems like many of them want to elect a religious leader, not a president or congressperson. It is a shame.

One day it will actually backfire to pander to these types IMO.

 

[BlackTerrel]

I am an atheist that is openly hostile toward Christianity. The religious right has never given us freedom, they are not to be respected. The religious right gives us prohibition, wars, and suppression of scientific knowledge.

Ron Paul is a Christian. Are you openly hostile to Ron Paul?

 

[BlackTerrel]

I'm an atheist, so I guess this thread isn't my area of expertise. I really don't like the idea of pandering to the religious right, because some of them get really crazy with the whole "Christian nation" myth, but I understand they're a large voting bloc.

There is a big difference between pandering and highlighting areas where you are similar. Fact is Ron Paul is a Christian - that isn't pandering.

 

[JohnGalt1225]

There is a big difference between pandering and highlighting areas where you are similar. Fact is Ron Paul is a Christian - that isn't pandering.

True. I really respect that Ron just lives his faith and is humble about it. You get the feel that his faith is important to him, which I fully understand, but that he doesn't want to push it on everyone. I get the opposite feel from Huckabee. He makes his religion the focal point of his campaign and I always get the feel he wants shove religion down our collective throats.

 

[DeadheadForPaul]

I am an atheist that is openly hostile toward Christianity. The religious right has never given us freedom, they are not to be respected. The religious right gives us prohibition, wars, and suppression of scientific knowledge.

Ron Paul and many of the people on this board are Christians.

I understand your frustration with the theocrats and Moral Majority types. Trust me, I am embarrassed that they label themselves as Christians and am also frightened of them.

However, Christians are a very diverse group, and it is unfair to label all billion+ of us as fundamentalists or irrational morons just because of some radicals in this country.

There are Christian libertarians (Ron Paul) and anarchists (Tolstoy) whom oppose prohibition. There are also Christian pacifists whom oppose all wars and others whom subscribe to Augustine's Just War Theory of Christianity. There are also prominent scientists such as Francis Collins who was the head of the Human Genome Project and is the current director of the NIH.

Please don't throw us all under the bus just because of some jerks out there. Christians and the institutional church are imperfect and have failed us in many ways, but please don't trash pure faith

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Ron should be more clear on the abortion issue. Saying "the federal government should stay out of it" really won't fly. He should at least come out in favor of a Constitutional amendment banning abortion, as there's nothing unconstitutional about a Constitutional amendment.

It's not about constitutional vs. unconstitutional. It's about the original intent and the principle. You can't just amend the Constitution to apply any federal ban you want. Ron knows that. It's about upholding liberty. Making Constitutional amendments that limit liberty doesn't fit the bill, and the public is supposed to be wary of people who would do something like that. Ron knows that, and he wouldn't compromise his principle by making constitutional amendments for any of his pet interests.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

As a non-religious person, I too am uncomfortable when politicians pander to the religious right. I understand that it is necessary, but it still gets under my skin. The thing about them is that they just love the candidates who constantly talk about their faith, and they don't seem to like ones who just live their faith, like Ron Paul does. Seems like many of them want to elect a religious leader, not a president or congressperson. It is a shame.

One day it will actually backfire to pander to these types IMO.

I don't think it will backfire. I think the ideas of freedom and liberty are growing within the Christian community as well as the nation as a whole. It's just a matter of time before it becomes a popular idea.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

Ron Paul and many of the people on this board are Christians.

I understand your frustration with the theocrats and Moral Majority types. Trust me, I am embarrassed that they label themselves as Christians and am also frightened of them.

However, Christians are a very diverse group, and it is unfair to label all billion+ of us as fundamentalists or irrational morons just because of some radicals in this country.

There are Christian libertarians (Ron Paul) and anarchists (Tolstoy) whom oppose prohibition. There are also Christian pacifists whom oppose all wars and others whom subscribe to Augustine's Just War Theory of Christianity. There are also prominent scientists such as Francis Collins who was the head of the Human Genome Project and is the current director of the NIH.

Please don't throw us all under the bus just because of some jerks out there. Christians and the institutional church are imperfect and have failed us in many ways, but please don't trash pure faith

+1

Christians are not against science. I personally am a Christian, and I love science. I just think a lot of people have a somewhat skewed definition of science, but that's for another forum entirely.

 

[nate895]

but that's for another forum entirely.

You obviously have no visited our religion subforum very often.

 

[Indy Vidual]

How to Win Over the Religious Right?

Don't show them this:


...those who know what's best for us
Must rise and save us from ourselves.

 

[guitarlifter]

There are a number of issues on which Ron Paul supporters can attempt to connect and reason with the religious right. I'm sure there are many more, but these are a few that came instantly to my mind. It is worthwhile attempting to ally with this crowd to a considerable extent. The religious right claims to (and in many instances, I believe, truly does) believe that the Bible is the holy and inspired word of God. Its message of liberty and freedom is one that would often surprise all of us.



1. INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY

Leviticus 25:10 reads: "Consecrate the fiftieth year and proclaim liberty throughout the land to all its inhabitants."

Furthermore, to see by contrast what God thinks about liberty, consider the Anti-Christ. He establishes the ultimate totalitarian regime, in which he attempts to completely subject all rights of all people on earth.

2. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

Galations 6:4-7 : "Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else, for each one should carry their own load. [...] Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows."

The Bible teaches that each individual will come of age and accountability, and that after that point he will be held accountable for his actions. The Founding Fathers warned that for the republic to last, its citizenry must be both educated and moral. Many explicitly stated that the Bible provided the best moral code.

3. PROTESTANT WORK ETHIC

1 Timothy 5:8 “If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”
Ecclestiastes 3:13: “That everyone may eat and drink, and find satisfaction in all his toil--this is the gift of God.”
Ephesians 4:28: “He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need.”

4. ABORTION

Psalm 139: 13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.

5. TAX WITHHOLDING

Jesus said that, "the laborer is worthy of his wages.” (Luke 10:7)

In fact, there is an important Biblical concept of "first fruits" (e.g. see Deuteronomy 26) and the intent is clear: God is supposed to receive the first portion of anything we earn. This is to signify that all we have is God's, and that he is merely blessing us with its use.

Direct withholding, such as for social security or medicaid, attempts to usurp God's rightful prerogative - i.e. that his cut will come out first, right off the top. It further increases the likelihood that God will not receive his fair share if people choose to tithe based on their take-home income.

6. CHARITY

The Bible is very clear about charity. It only counts if it is done in a loving, giving, and even selfless spirit. This is the message of the parable of the Widow's Mite.

When government purports to act charitably (be it through foreign aid, public education, food stamps, what have you) it does not do so and instead commits the sin of theft. To force a person to surrender their own rightful belongings to another is coercion under any name. It is also a blow to the charitable spirit, as people who find themselves robbed might consider their charitable donations finished and will be less inclined to give freely and from the heart.

7. PARENTAL RIGHTS

The government, through state and federal Child Protective agencies, has been routinely harassing Christian families for such issues as homeschooling, overt religious expression, and use of corporal punishment.

Proverbs 13:24 "He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him."

Deuteronomy 11:18-19 "Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Teach them to your children, talking about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up."

8. WEED

Sometimes I run up against a religious person who is absurdly anti-marijuana and will not consider libertarians who advocate for legalization. I dispute them thus:

In Genesis 1:29, God said to Adam and Eve, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food." I think it's interesting that marijuana is a seed-bearing plant which stimulates the appetite. Men are often deluded, but the Bible says God is never wrong.

1 Samuel 8 is one of my favorites in rebuking big government and supporting libertarianism. Matthew 17 has the temple tax story that tells how Jesus says that "the children are exampt" from taxation, but, so as to not offend people and stir up trouble, and, since paying taxes is not morally wrong, one should pay taxes. At the same time, this passage says that, although one should pay taxes, taxes are still wrong. Romans 13 tells us to obey they laws because of the possible persecution that may follow. Jesus broke many laws set in place from birth to death. Surely we should not follow laws that would be sinful to follow.

Galatians 5:1 talks about how it was for freedom that we were set free, but we should be responsible for our actions and not bind ourselves to sin. Mark 7:15 says that nothing that enters the body can make one unclean, but it is instead what comes out of the body that makes one unclean.

When the Tent of Meeting was being created in all of its utter extravagance and all the materials were being brought together in order to make it, it says that ALL WHO WERE WILLING donated the items. It never collected any of it through taxation.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/barr-j1.1.1.html

Just found this when reading up on theology as it applies to politics.

I'll possibly add more later, but I'm reading that link now!

 

[The Moravian]

Gunny gets it right

Gunny gets right to the point that I also make about government involvement in marriage, but his answer is more succinct and well-worded than mine has been.

Believe me, we will be asked about this and other "religious right issues" when we campaign for Ron, it is unavoidable in a Republican primary.

When I ran for state legislature last year many voter guides asked if I "supported traditional marriage", etc. Instead of avoiding the question or not answering the questionnaire at all, I told them that I wanted to get all of government out of marriage; federal, state and local. I told them that pushing the issue in government,though it currently seems that the public supports man/woman marriage through the law, it will eventually backfire and when support for "marriage equality" wins, people will accept laws requiring churches to perform gay weddings or lose their tax-exempt status. Sometimes I quote CS Lewis, a famous Christian writer, who wrote back in the 1940s about making "Christian marriages" totally distinct from whatever the world decides to call marriage.

It's best to challenge the arguments that seem to be the strongest head on, because they are always found to be misapplied or misquoted. The point about leaving marriage to God instead of letting the government take authority in something he made, is really good, too, I will remember to use that.

When it comes to taxes and government involvement in our lives I like to use the most famous political quote of Jesus, "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's..." (the part that's always said) and finish the rest of the sentence "...and unto God what is God's." (the part that is never said) Clearly, it means that not everything is Caesar's.

This meant a lot more at the time, because Caesar claimed authority beyond what our government does today. He claimed authority over all earthly activity and "graciously allowed" people to worship other gods after they paid homage to him in a ceremonial act of incense burning.

Jesus statement is that there are two distinct realms of authority, Caesar's realm of authority is limited, and God's realm is larger and unlimited.

Romans 13 is often misapplied, too, in a similar way. It says to obey the governing authorities in no uncertain terms as the authority that God has established, and "render unto each their due...". You WILL hear this from people, I guarantee it, so be ready to answer clearly, because it gets tricky if you don't.

Tell them America doesn't have a king or an emperor or a dictator, but the "governing authorities" in our country are the US Constitution and the state constitutions. We don't have a monarchy like ancient Rome or other countries at the time, we have the rule of law, not the rule of men. The Congress, President and Supreme Court were created in the Constitution to be completely different governing authorities than other governments, and they must be held to the Constitution as the "governing authority" over them, according to Romans 13.

In terms of abortion, I point out that the federal government first got involved in it with the Roe v Wade decision by the Supreme Court, which was clearly unconstitutional usurpation of the 10th Amendment. The feds are further involved by giving 100s of millions of dollars to abortion clinics every year and federal courts blocking partial birth bans passed by the states. Therefore, getting the federal government completely out of the issue would mean stopping all federal funding of abortion clinics and blocking the Supreme Court's decisions like Roe v Wade. This is the same argument that Gunny and others have made, but Paul should give the details more, which he has been doing better with lately.

I myself am a Christian, so I am able to be more persuasive on these points than someone who isn't because I can be received as a brother with Christians of any denomination, because I have associated with Pentecostals, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and Charismatic churches and groups, long before I got involved in political activity. But it is still good for people who aren't Christians to be able to give a short answer along the same lines, even if it isn't as easy for a Christian to receive from you. I'm not as easily received in other circles either, even though I have to be ready with a principled answer that speaks to each person's frame of reference.

It's not pandering to take the vantage point of the other person, see what they value and be able to show them how their ultimate goal is more achievable with liberty, and non-aggression/non-coercion by government.

 

[nayjevin]

Christians are a very diverse group, and it is unfair to label all billion+ of us as fundamentalists or irrational morons just because of some radicals in this country.

Same with Women, Whites, Muslims, Cops, Politicians, Soldiers, Hippies, Ron Paul supporters, Birthers, Truthers, and Everything.

X's are Y.

Where X is more than one person, and Y is a blanket statement.

Just say no!

 

[tpreitzel]

Moravian,

Good first post ... Each decade of years, I'm amazed that I've been graciously allowed to reach such a limit. At 40, I couldn't even conceive of 50 years on this earth. At 50, I couldn't conceive of 60, etc ... BTW, I was all worn out at 40 ...

 

[nayjevin]

Moravian,

Good first post ... Each decade of years, I'm amazed that I've been graciously allowed to reach such a limit. At 40, I couldn't even conceive of 50 years on this earth. At 50, I couldn't conceive of 60, etc ... BTW, I was all worn out at 40 ...

"It's the ride." eh?