H1B Visas... We should stop them immediately!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Ron paul voted yes 9 years ago when there was a massive shortage of HIGHTECH workers... but now, there are so many unemployeed HIGHTECH workers/Engineers/ETC...

I think hording the hightech workers around the world is doubly counter-productive:

1 - H1B Visas takes away any foreign assets to their respective countries workforce

2 - H1B Visas take away jobs from American Educated workers

3 - H1B Visas are just a PLOY by CORPORATE America to:

a. Hire workers at lower WAGES compared to Americans Workers
b. HOLD H1B WORKERS HOSTAGE to working more hours
c. Stay in AMERICA or they can notify INS/ICE to initiate deportation procedures
d. Industrial Relations IR/HR depts to control H1B workers because of NO US Civil rights (FOREIGNERS)

Ron Paul's previous record on H1Bs...

Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers.
Vote to pass a bill to increase the number of temporary visas granted to highly skilled workers from 65,000 to 115,000 by the year 2000.
Reference: Bill introduced by Smith, R-TX.; Bill HR 3736 ; vote number 1998-460 on Sep 24, 1998

 

[stm]

Ron paul voted yes 9 years ago when there was a massive shortage of HIGHTECH workers... but now, there are so many unemployeed HIGHTECH workers/Engineers/ETC...

You want to know why? Because the supposed "shortage" of hightech workers was entirely manufactured.

“Skill Shortage” Racket Driving Americans From Science And Engineering

By Paul Craig Roberts

Last June a revealing marketing video from the law firm, Cohen & Grigsby appeared on the Internet. The video demonstrated the law firm’s techniques for getting around US law governing work visas in order to enable corporate clients to replace their American employees with foreigners who work for less. The law firm’s marketing manager, Lawrence Lebowitz, is upfront with interested clients: "Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified and interested US worker."

If an American somehow survives the weeding out process, "have the manager of that specific position step in and go through the whole process to find a legal basis to disqualify them for this position—in most cases there doesn’t seem to be a problem."

No problem for the employer he means—only for the expensively-educated American university graduate who is displaced by a foreigner imported on a work visa justified by a nonexistent shortage of trained and qualified Americans.

University of California computer science professor Norm Matloff, who watches this issue closely, said that Cohen & Grigsby’s practices are the standard ones used by hordes of attorneys, who are cleaning up by putting Americans out of work.

The Cohen & Grigsby video was a short-term sensation as it undermined the business propaganda that no American employee was being displaced by foreigners on H-1b or L-1 work visas. Soon, however, business organizations and their shills were back in gear lying to Congress and the public about the amazing shortage of qualified Americans for literally every technical and professional occupation, especially IT and software engineering.

Everywhere we hear the same droning lie from business interests that there are not enough American engineers and scientists. For mysterious reasons Americans prefer to be waitresses and bartenders, hospital orderlies, and retail clerks.

As one of the few who writes about this short-sighted policy of American managers endeavoring to maximize their "performance bonuses," I receive much feedback from affected Americans.

Many responses come from recent university graduates—such as the one who "graduated nearly at the top of my class in 2002" with degrees in both electrical and computer engineering and who "hasn’t been able to find a job."

A college roommate of a family member graduated from a good engineering school last year with a degree in software engineering. He had one job interview. Jobless, he is back at home living with his parents and burdened with student loans that bought an education that offshoring and work visas have made useless to Americans.

…[/quote]

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Hey hey, ho ho, h1bs have got to go

As a former IT worker, I can attest to the fact that there never really was a real shortage of IT workers. The increased demand increased pay, which motivated hundreds of thousands of ex truck drivers, engineers, lawyers, etc, to seek training in IT to fill the jobs and were in the process of doing so, but the IT firms simply just got too greedy, and wanted to tap asian talent who would work for much less. Of course, eventually, that too was too expensive, so they moved a great number of jobs offshore.

I worked for an IT outsourcing provider who literally laid off many thousands of qualified personell with one hand, while with the other hand; 1. opening up operations overseas and 2. filing so many H1-B visas that they had to hire law students to help them process them.

Of course now this companny is ditching the majority of its B2B business in favor of chasing more profitable .gov contracts.

Im honestly of the opinion that the only way to stop this crap is to get the government out of the business of giving special favors to US business. Lets set an real immigration limit less than 1% of the US population a year, and focus on bringing in quality people. which is in the country's best interest in general, rather than open borders and special worker visas, which really only benefits the rich.

 

[Think12345]

Although I am a high-tech professional and thus have to compete with H1B holders, I support that program. H1B visas bring many talented and educated people to the US, and the numbers are really small compared to other visas. I wish all the immigration was based on H1B, J1 and similar programs that guarantee the high quality of people we bring in.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Although I am a high-tech professional and thus have to compete with H1B holders, I support that program. H1B visas bring many talented and educated people to the US, and the numbers are really small compared to other visas. I wish all the immigration was based on H1B, J1 and similar programs that guarantee the high quality of people we bring in.

"guarantee the high quality"?! lol!

I didn't know that the H1-B program had such guarantees...(it doesn't).

Who would think that the government could ever effectively implement massive employee competency screening?...(they couldn't).

People are people. Some high-quality, some not. The H1-B program does nothing to ensure quality. In my experience, it provides a random sample similar to what you would get in the U.S.

What it does ensure is low salaries and employees who can be threatened (and controlled) with revoked visas and deportation.

 

[drednot]

I am an american tech worker and I support allowing skilled people to work in the country unhindered.

They generally speak good english, are good citizens, and are the kind of people most likely to start businesses.

It's silly to invite people here as PhD students and then kick them out once they are educated.

They then just go and hire all the other foreign skilled workers we kept out, and undercut american businesses.

People complain about foreign workers, then turn around and complain about outsourcing.

The problem is, you can't just shoot these foreigners. They are going to find tech work somewhere, often at lower wages, and they are going to compete with american tech workers one way or the other.

If more workers really caused mass unemployment, then the US would be a nation of unemployed, as our population has doubled many times over.

The reality is these foreign tech workers become customers too, so unemployment is not increased. This is "Say's Law", the fact that supply creates it's own demand.

 

[shoms_w]

I am for the HIB program. They generaly work hard, pay taxes, and more importantly follow the immigration law. America should welcome immigration, LEGAL immigration.

 

[shoms_w]

And the below is not correct. I work with and know many people on H1B visas, and in my personal experience the point you make below is a small minority of cases. I think the below may be true for Illegal immigrants.

3 - H1B Visas are just a PLOY by CORPORATE America to:

a. Hire workers at lower WAGES compared to Americans Workers
b. HOLD H1B WORKERS HOSTAGE to working more hours
c. Stay in AMERICA or they can notify INS/ICE to initiate deportation procedures
d. Industrial Relations IR/HR depts to control H1B workers because of NO US Civil rights (FOREIGNERS)

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And the below is not correct. I work with and know many people on H1B visas, and in my personal experience the point you make below is a small minority of cases. I think the below may be true for Illegal immigrants.

All right, let's focus on wages.

If you can absolutely guarantee me that H1-B visa employees make MORE MONEY than their American counterparts (doing the same work), than I will believe that the H1-B visa program is only about getting qualified people. If they paid more for these imported workers, that would be evidence enough that they had superior qualifications and were indispensable.

If you can't say that, I will never believe that the H1-B program is anything more than a cheap labor program.

And the truth is, they pay them less, and depress the wages for all. It's simple supply and demand.

 

[shoms_w]

Like I said, in my personal experience I have noticed no discrimination. Is there any discrimination? Would not doubt it. What I do doubt is the large scale sweeping statement that it brings down wages etc. I am sure you can find an article that says it does, I can find one that says it is a good thing(if it really does).

It is a pointless debate because if you look at the industry forces, Immigration is required. Microsoft moved development to Canada because it could not get enough skilled labor due to H1B caps.

Like Dr. Paul has pointed out, immigration is a scape goat. The real problem is economic imbalances (domestic and foreign). Once we deal with that issue we will not be worried about immigration.

 

[kylejack]

Increase H1B visas, drastically increase legal immigration quotas, simplify the immigration process, stop country-based favoritism.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Increase H1B visas, drastically increase legal immigration quotas, simplify the immigration process, stop country-based favoritism.

If you stop "country-based" favoritism, what do you have? No nations? North American Union? One world government? Throw out our "country-based" Constitution?

That would seem to be the opposite of Ron Paul's message. I'm sure all of the other major candidates would agree with stopping "country-based" favoritism though...(ok, Tancredo is an obvious exception)

 

[shoms_w]

By having country based immigration you are going against everything that Dr. Paul stands for. Dr. Paul does not care where you were born: you are an individual. Why discriminate on place of birth,color of skin etc.

Open up legal immigration, raise the bar to make sure you get people who want to work and be good citizens. Should not matter if they come from Africa, Australia, China, India, France.

 

[kylejack]

If you stop "country-based" favoritism, what do you have? No nations? North American Union? One world government? Throw out our "country-based" Constitution?

That would seem to be the opposite of Ron Paul's message. I'm sure all of the other candidates would agree with stopping "country-based" favoritism though...

People from Mexico and Central American countries (among other countries) are not eligible for the VISA Lottery and have no legal path to citizenship unless:

1) They have family here
2) They are in a highly skilled profession

To the average Mexican, there is no legal path to immigration, so all the protestations of "we just want people to follow the procedure" are ridiculous on their face, because there is no procedure. Meanwhile, people from countries like, say, Albania can participate in the VISA Lottery and get a chance to come to the country. That's country-based favoritism and it needs to end.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Microsoft moved development to Canada because it could not get enough skilled labor due to H1B caps.

Like Dr. Paul has pointed out, immigration is a scape goat. The real problem is economic imbalances (domestic and foreign). Once we deal with that issue we will not be worried about immigration.

That's the reason that Microsoft gives us. Is it true or intentional propaganda? Can't really say they (MS) are unbiased in this matter.

Dr. Paul says that things like immigration are dependent on economic conditions. In the case where imported labor is paid more, that would be proof that they are needed. If they are paid less, that would indicate that the "need" is the need for cheap labor.

A great experiment would be for the government to auction off 20,000 H1-B visas each quarter in open bidding. We would see how much these visas are really valued.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

People from Mexico and Central American countries (among other countries) are not eligible for the VISA Lottery and have no legal path to citizenship unless:

1) They have family here
2) They are in a highly skilled profession

To the average Mexican, there is no legal path to immigration, so all the protestations of "we just want people to follow the procedure" are ridiculous on their face, because there is no procedure. Meanwhile, people from countries like, say, Albania can participate in the VISA Lottery and get a chance to come to the country. That's country-based favoritism and it needs to end.

Ah, that kind of country-based favoritism... agreed.

But it would be good to attempt to screen criminals, terrorists, etc...and yes, that might mean taking a close look at immigrants from say, Saudi Arabia...where there's some history of terrorist export problems.

 

[shoms_w]

Microsoft was an example. Again we can find articles, research papers etc stating both sides

Also, hiring a legal immigrant comes at a cost. Throw in application fees, lawyer fees, delays, etc and you do not get a "cheap" worker. Also, one needs to submit to the immigration service proof of salary etc, and this has to be comparable to state averages.

Again, we are debating something that is an offshoot of the main problem. America has benefited immensely by having open doors, and we should continue that. Putting up barriers, preventing hard working people from coming here is only going to hurt us in the long run.

That's the reason that Microsoft gives us. Is it true or intentional propaganda? Can't really say they (MS) are unbiased in this matter.

Dr. Paul says that things like immigration are dependent on economic conditions. In the case where imported labor is paid more, that would be proof that they are needed. If they are paid less, that would indicate that the "need" is the need for cheap labor.

A great experiment would be for the government to auction off 20,000 H1-B visas each quarter in open bidding. We would see how much these visas are really valued.

 

[shoms_w]

Agree with you 100% on this one. We need to very careful about who we let in from every country.

Ah, that kind of country-based favoritism... agreed.

But it would be good to attempt to screen criminals, terrorists, etc...and yes, that might mean taking a close look at immigrants from say, Saudi Arabia...where there's some history of terrorist export problems.

 

[beobeli]

H1B visas are not the problem. Someone already said in this tread that businesses now just go offshore for cheaper skilled labor anyway. Therefore, H1B is not a reason for any downward pressures on high tech salaries. It is the weak economy, weakening dollar, and out-of-control gov spending to be worried about.

Most of people that come on H1B are entrepreneurial, risk-taking, non-prima-donna types. They do contribute to the high tech innovations that we must continue in order to remain competitive as a country.

Don't expect protectionism in free market. Find something that you can kick ass in, and all will be fine.

 

[fortilite]

I support H1B. Every H1B worker I have met was an AMAZING employee.