H1B Visas... We should stop them immediately!
- Thread starter HOLLYWOOD
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The corruption refers to the scam employers who hire people on H-1s and don't pay them, and then farm them out to other companies who need workers, basically setting up a labor farm.
Hiring an Indian or Chinese over an American doesn't qualify as corruption, certainly not by Ron Paul's standards.
And when the vote did come up in 2000, Paul voted to increase the cap.
Yeah, he stated that's what the program does.
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Once again, that's your interpretation. Do you have a source where Ron Paul specifically said that?
The article I quoted was Ron's response to people telling him about this corruption in the program:
And Ron is still supporting a program with limits, criteria, caps and time-frames. He is not talking about open (or elimination of) borders and immigration policy.
Do the immigrants share our political values?
The people coming over now are for the most part not immigrants and have no desire to be an America or stay here long-term. They are here for one reason only, jobs.
The only thing you're proving is that the anti - immigrant position of forcing everybody who comes into the U.S. become a citizen is pure idiocy. People SHOULD be loyal to whatever country they come from and if they want to retain their citizenship in that country, then so be it.
I think that those of you who have gotten away with this spurious argument about a "borderless world" need to be called on the hypocrisy and lies of such a position. Allow me:
The borders of the United States are well marked. The anti - immigrant lobby is basically controlled by National Socialists that don't have any credible arguments. Their first argument begins with the "house" analogy. According to this theory, American is a "house" and the foreigners are like burglars and thieves. The problem is, that analogy doesn't work for them:
At YOUR house, if a friend comes in from out of town and they stay the night, maybe fix your computer and talk about old times, do you then force them to sign their name to your mortgage? If not, are they "invaders" or burglars? If your spouse or other family invites someone over, do they sign their name to your mortgage simply because they are a guest? If they don't, is there any question in your mind WHO owns the house??? It's the same deal with borders and this idiotic "house" analogy.
Nobody is arguing open borders in 99 percent of these threads. The anti - immigrant lobby invented the accusation. The problem is, it don't hold water. I'm using their analogies and they cannot defend them. They simply continue to misrepresent the position of free market advocates. Come here, work the job, and when the job is finished, go home. If you call the plumber, electrician, or the carpet cleaner to come over to your house, it works the same freaking way.
If you guys want to know what NATIONAL SOCIALISM is, it begins with the National Identity Card and usually ends with the Berlin Wall rebuilt around the southern border of the United States. The problem with creating the ultimate POLICE STATE is that the federal machine gun toting mercenaries with their drones, warrant less searches and womb to the tomb monitoring cannot be confined to the borders and the anti - immigrants KNOW it!
We can trace this anti - immigrant hysteria back to 2003. Back then, a group called Ranch Rescue tried to apprehend some foreigners that trespassed over private land in order to enter the United States without papers (a civil violation of the law.) The Ranch Rescue members were jailed and the property owner sued - AND lost his ranch for violating the "civil rights" of the foreigners.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/case-docket/leiva-v-ranch-rescue
At that juncture, the citizens militias and the social conservatives could have mounted a legal campaign regarding a property owner's right to defend their property. But NOOOOOOO. It became easier to scapegoat the foreigner. The solutions were / areALWAYS National Socialist solutions dreamed up by white supremacists in the 1970s and 1980s
Brian4Liberty, you wouldn't know what Liberty is if it slapped you in the face. The Declaration of Independence states:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."
Citizenship is a privilege, but you have a long way to go in understanding the plain and simple fact: Government cannot bestow upon any man his Liberty. If I choose to hire a foreigner, NO LAW can legitimately deny me that right. You cannot limit it with caps, permission, or quotas. If the job is here, then the foreigner can work it. When the job ends, the foreigner, not being an American, is not legally qualified to get unemployment benefits, Socialist Security, etc. So, let's have this discussion again... since you don't understand the very concept you pretend to be supporting.
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^^^
Good post above, great analogy of how the house analogy they use leads us to national socialism, which if you read their statements, is exactly what they are advocating.
The government must force businesses to hire pureblooded Aryans before hiring mudbloods!
Its funny, because they understand why affirmative action based on race is immoral, but they are all in support of it when it comes to nationality.
Good post above, great analogy of how the house analogy they use leads us to national socialism, which if you read their statements, is exactly what they are advocating.
The government must force businesses to hire pureblooded Aryans before hiring mudbloods!
Its funny, because they understand why affirmative action based on race is immoral, but they are all in support of it when it comes to nationality.
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Yeah, right. Everyone who has a different opinion than you on immigration and jobs is a racist or Nazi. Take your straw men and bullshit somewhere else. What was your username last time you were banned? And quoting the SPLC? That's a nice touch.
My position is exactly the same as Ron Paul's. Take it up with Ron if it you think it is so anti-liberty, or go crawl back under the dung pile you crawled out from under.
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More straw man bullshit. Why are you here? Why did you bump this thread? What's your agenda?
Liberty for all mankind.
specsaregood
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H1-B visa people end up more like indentured servants than liberated. And the american people who's jobs they filled end up paying the taxes/debt as those same corps suck off the govt wiener.
Brian4Liberty, you need some "edumacating." The term straw man argument is defined as:
"A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
The issue is, I have debated he "house" analogy which has been brought up by YOUR side more than 100 times on this board alone. It's not a superficial argument. It is THE argument most often relied upon by the anti - immigrant lobbyists.
Fact is, the first immigration thread YOU participated in was a thread where this very analogy is presented:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-Fox/page2&highlight=immigration,+house,+jobs
There is no "straw man" argument. It is a recurring theme that runs neck and neck with the debunked gum balls video.
I quoted the SPLC because it was their case and it does not endorse them any more than referencing a quote from the New York Times would qualify me as being a liberal. So, YOU are dabbling in straw man arguments.
Finally, I've never been banned from this board. But I did know Ron Paul as far back as 1986... and I mean shake his hand, sit at the same table and talk politics. Unless his positions have changed recently, I know full well what Ron Paul's position is on the subject.
specsaregood
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Actually yes, his position changed sometime after '88. He used to be an open borders advocate but now is not as he came to the conclusion that open borders are incompatible with a welfare state. He made note of it in a debate.
Mankind doesn't want liberty.
There we go again. YOU are making a straw man argument.
Allowing foreigners to come here and work, to exercise unalienable Rights does not have squat to do with "open borders." The opposite of open borders would be National ID / REAL ID Act, the so - called "Patriot Act," warrant less searches, the end to the presumption of innocence, the 24 / 7 / 365 monitoring of people in the ultimate POLICE STATE.
NONE of this has to do with any "welfare state" as foreigners that are not citizens are not entitled to welfare NOR do the bulk of them use it. EVERY study (save of those produced by white supremacist, John Tanton and his enterprises) have concluded that, at the end of the day, it's a wash. The foreigners don't take any more out of the system than they put into it.
You guys need to quit complaining about straw man arguments if you are going to allow your supporters to keep parroting that phony open borders nonsense.
specsaregood
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wtf are you talking about. I told you how Dr. Paul's position has CHANGED since you met him in '86. take it up with him if you want to get all nuts about it, he made the claim himself when asked about IT in a debate.
Ron Paul's position:
While the federal government neglects its constitutional responsibility to protect our borders, it continues to push mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care to illegal immigrants at a time when the states are drowning in debt. This must not be tolerated any longer.
Like most Americans, Ron Paul also understands just how valuable legal immigration is to our country.
Immigrants who want to work hard, obey our laws, and live the American Dream have always been great asset
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/
The underlying issue is that Ron Paul is talking apples and some of you are talking oranges. For example, Ron Paul fully acknowledges that the current immigration laws need to be reformed. In many instances, there is no such thing as "legal" immigration for many people. Ron Paul ACKNOWLEDGED that in some of the recent debates.
Some of Ron Paul's positions are predicated upon him getting the wrong information. Not only is the stereotype of welfare riding undocumented workers a total myth, but Ron Paul ought to know that you cannot change birth-right citizenship without amending the Constitution. Maybe Ron Paul needs a refresher course?
If you repeal the so - called "Patriot Act" which is subtitled ENHANCED BORDER SECURITY, the REAL ID Act, warrant less searches, etc. then you are right back to the position I have taken.
"Open Borders" is a totally meaningless political term, invented by National Socialists. What the xenophobes want conflicts with the very things the founding fathers warned us against.
While the federal government neglects its constitutional responsibility to protect our borders, it continues to push mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care to illegal immigrants at a time when the states are drowning in debt. This must not be tolerated any longer.
Like most Americans, Ron Paul also understands just how valuable legal immigration is to our country.
Immigrants who want to work hard, obey our laws, and live the American Dream have always been great asset
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/
The underlying issue is that Ron Paul is talking apples and some of you are talking oranges. For example, Ron Paul fully acknowledges that the current immigration laws need to be reformed. In many instances, there is no such thing as "legal" immigration for many people. Ron Paul ACKNOWLEDGED that in some of the recent debates.
Some of Ron Paul's positions are predicated upon him getting the wrong information. Not only is the stereotype of welfare riding undocumented workers a total myth, but Ron Paul ought to know that you cannot change birth-right citizenship without amending the Constitution. Maybe Ron Paul needs a refresher course?
If you repeal the so - called "Patriot Act" which is subtitled ENHANCED BORDER SECURITY, the REAL ID Act, warrant less searches, etc. then you are right back to the position I have taken.
"Open Borders" is a totally meaningless political term, invented by National Socialists. What the xenophobes want conflicts with the very things the founding fathers warned us against.
I'm for that too, but in their own nations. They sure wouldn't like it if the situation was reversed and we were going to their nation and taking jobs away from their qualified workers while hating their nation and looking down on them at the same time.
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