H1B Visas... We should stop them immediately!

[HOLLYWOOD]

Well, dealing with it first hand... (HIGH TECH INDUSTRY)

The states pretty much look the other way, because the company could move there business/division to another state.( that's kinda conveyed to governments) Though the state always announce their backing of labor laws and justice.

This is a simile for laying off Senior/high tenure/salaried staff and replacing such personnel with lower waged workers, especially H1-B VISA recruitment. Businesses/Corporations just reclassify the position under a different job title or dept.. It's done all the time by business and states rarely ever investigate any claims. A long standing practice to reduce company expenses.

kinda sux.

 

[HankScorpio]

If Ron Paul supports lowering visa caps, he would lose my support.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

If Ron Paul supports lowering visa caps, he would lose my support.

Really? That's interesting. Why is that?

And which candidate would you support? You are lucky, as you would have quite a variety to choose from if expanding immigration is your single issue...

 

[Brian4Liberty]

As I recruit in IT I see both sides of this story. I think everyone got it wrong here since I see a shortage or surplus dependent on region and skill.

We also have the problem with all the hype about H1Bs, Americans are getting out of IT and creating the situation where we have less computer science graduates.

Both good points.

1) Young Americans are being discouraged from even becoming tech majors. They see what is happening. As Ron Paul would say, "unintended consequences".

2) Region and skill - In a well working immigration program, you would bring in people with all kinds of different skills, in all different kinds of professions. What we have now is the vast majority of H1-B visas go to a very specific and narrow specialty in IT. This keeps complaints at a minimum.

If almost every Radiologist were replaced (in-sourced or outsourced), who would notice other than Radiologists? You would still have the majority of people in the "Medical" Industry say that they were all for the program, and say "I haven't seen any problem in the Medical field".

There are a lot of aspects to this problem, and the devil is in the details.

Yes, bringing in some skilled people is a benefit to the US. But like every government program, what is happening in the real world is not what is sold to the public, not what it was intended to be, and it is being abused. And once again, another example of government/corporate collusion, which is what most of us want to avoid. Laws written by and for corporate interests, for their benefit. The "cap" was just a vestige of the original H1-B program, when H1-B was rarely used. But they never imagined what they could get away with and how successful they would be, and now that "cap" is what they complain about. The L-1 Visa gets them around the caps, but it isn't quite as advantageous as the H1-B...thus they continue to complain, and appeal to "free market" ideals or the race card.

 

[StateofTrance]

Dr. Paul was explicit on this issue in the video when he spoke to the Google employees: if a company wants to hire someone and that someone wants to work at that company (at the mutually agreed terms), the government has no right interfering. Freedom of association. This stance in no way affects the government's right to determine naturalization policies.

There should be no limit on H1B visas. Quotas are for socialists.

QFT!

 

[Truth Warrior]

Stop H1B? Ten years ago, would have been better. Never been? Better still. What do you expect the "globalization" (NWO) Congressional "employees" of the IT industry to do?

The stealth war on the US middle class continues. Are you the next casualty?

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

You want to know why? Because the supposed "shortage" of hightech workers was entirely manufactured.

Bill Gates is continuing his "CRUSADE for CHEAP TECHNICAL LABOR" by touting his reasoning of shortages again, this time, on FOX BUSINESS morning, of course on the shirt tail of Warren Buffet.

BTW:

Warren Buffet paid 16.7% in TAXES 2007

Average American earning $60K pays: 33%

 

[DriftWood]

Ron paul voted yes 9 years ago when there was a massive shortage of HIGHTECH workers... but now, there are so many unemployeed HIGHTECH workers/Engineers/ETC...

I think hording the hightech workers around the world is doubly counter-productive:

1 - H1B Visas takes away any foreign assets to their respective countries workforce

2 - H1B Visas take away jobs from American Educated workers

3 - H1B Visas are just a PLOY by CORPORATE America to:

a. Hire workers at lower WAGES compared to Americans Workers
b. HOLD H1B WORKERS HOSTAGE to working more hours
c. Stay in AMERICA or they can notify INS/ICE to initiate deportation procedures
d. Industrial Relations IR/HR depts to control H1B workers because of NO US Civil rights (FOREIGNERS)

Ron Paul's previous record on H1Bs...

Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers.
Vote to pass a bill to increase the number of temporary visas granted to highly skilled workers from 65,000 to 115,000 by the year 2000.
Reference: Bill introduced by Smith, R-TX.; Bill HR 3736 ; vote number 1998-460 on Sep 24, 1998

What you are suggesting is protectionism. You are suggesting that the govt should be involved in putting up barriers to stop the free market of labor. While protectionism is always to the benefit to the special interest that gets protection from competition, it always comes at the expense of every one else. Consumers will have to pay a higher price for the protected service/product, compared to what they would if the free market was allowed to have its course. In effect the consumers would be subsidizing this industry by having to pay higher prices. If it is right to protect your industry and job from competition, then why not protect and subsidize every other industry? Well that would be madness because then everyone would be worse off, because in the end everyone is a consumer of other peoples services/products. Consumers suffer from protectionism, their wealth and purchasing power will be reduced. Everyone wants protectionism and artificial scarcity in their own field, but not for others.

Also having these restrictive quotas on foreign high tech labor, will only drive out businesses out of the country faster. Just like taxes.

I might be a bit biased, as I am a programmer (working in the UK) and a couple of years ago I looked into applying for a H1B visa to work in US just to get a change of scenery. I gave it up though after reading up on the cumbersome and restrictive immigration and working visa situation that US has. The system is a bureaucratic nightmare. To tell you the truth i think US is only hurting itself by scaring away talent with its draconian immigration system. Canada, Australia and UK are much more open and i think their economies will grow more efficient and their consumers will become wealthier as a result by an increase in their purchasing power.

Cheers

 

[Truth Warrior]

Well, I'm suggesting that the government get the hell out of the economy. They just screw it up........... always.

 

[apc3161]

I'm really getting tempted to leave the forums. Comments such as Hollywood's are just idiotic.

Having recently graduated college with an engineering degree, I can tell you straight up that the best students in my class were foreigners. Not only that, but most of them weren't able to get their H1-B Visas and were sent home. That's right, we just kicked out some of the smartest people in the country. My two smartest friends are now going to work in Hong Kong, and now instead of adding to our economy, we have to compete with them. There should be no cap on skilled/educated H1-B visas.

That being said, that doesn't mean they should receive Social Sec., Medicare, etc etc. Those are reserved for citizens. The same should hold for illegals. But we shouldn't be encouraging labor to leave our country, especially skilled labor.

You want to know what happens when you close yourself off from the rest of the world? Look at China in between the 15th and 20th century. They went from the worlds number one power to nothing, because they shut themselves out to the rest of the world. Don't do that to America.

 

[apc3161]

What you are suggesting is protectionism. You are suggesting that the govt should be involved in putting up barriers to stop the free market of labor. While protectionism is always to the benefit to the special interest that gets protection from competition, it always comes at the expense of every one else. Consumers will have to pay a higher price for the protected service/product, compared to what they would if the free market was allowed to have its course. In effect the consumers would be subsidizing this industry by having to pay higher prices. If it is right to protect your industry and job from competition, then why not protect and subsidize every other industry? Well that would be madness because then everyone would be worse off, because in the end everyone is a consumer of other peoples services/products. Consumers suffer from protectionism, their wealth and purchasing power will be reduced. Everyone wants protectionism and artificial scarcity in their own field, but not for others.

Also having these restrictive quotas on foreign high tech labor, will only drive out businesses out of the country faster. Just like taxes.

I might be a bit biased, as I am a programmer (working in the UK) and a couple of years ago I looked into applying for a H1B visa to work in US just to get a change of scenery. I gave it up though after reading up on the cumbersome and restrictive immigration and working visa situation that US has. The system is a bureaucratic nightmare. To tell you the truth i think US is only hurting itself by scaring away talent with its draconian immigration system. Canada, Australia and UK are much more open and i think their economies will grow more efficient and their consumers will become wealthier as a result by an increase in their purchasing power.

Cheers

Finally, an intelligent comment.

 

[DriftWood]

*applause*

Personally, I think we should stop pretty much all immigration (be it from Russia, Africa, Sweden, China, or Mexico), as absolutely nothing good can from it.

I suggest you read the book "economics in one lesson". I don't mean that as an insult, its an classic libertarian book that explains why the free market is good and why protectionism, govt regulations and taxes are bad. I think Ron Paul recommended it somewhere. Anyways. You seem to think that there is a fixed number of jobs available. This is not true jobs create more jobs. Efficiency creates wealth. Wealth creates more consumption. Consumption creates more jobs. More productive labour (lower cost) create more wealth and employment for the society as a whole, than unproductive ones (higher cost).

Keeping progress and productivity increases from happening is a sure way to poverty. When the industrial revolution happened there was allot of people who got angry because they lost their jobs because they could not compete with the low cost machines. But society and people in general befitted tremendously by a reduction in price of the products. They grew wealthier.

Cheers

 

[Truth Warrior]

I'm really getting tempted to leave the forums. Comments such as Hollywood's are just idiotic.

Having recently graduated college with an engineering degree, I can tell you straight up that the best students in my class were foreigners. Not only that, but most of them weren't able to get their H1-B Visas and were sent home. That's right, we just kicked out some of the smartest people in the country. My two smartest friends are now going to work in Hong Kong, and now instead of adding to our economy, we have to compete with them. There should be no cap on skilled/educated H1-B visas.

That being said, that doesn't mean they should receive Social Sec., Medicare, etc etc. Those are reserved for citizens. The same should hold for illegals. But we shouldn't be encouraging labor to leave our country, especially skilled labor.

You want to know what happens when you close yourself off from the rest of the world? Look at China in between the 15th and 20th century. They went from the worlds number one power to nothing, because they shut themselves out to the rest of the world. Don't do that to America.

http://www.programmersguild.org/

 

[apc3161]

http://www.programmersguild.org/

So you are saying everyone in the country should pay higher prices for IT related goods just to help the IT workers?

If so, then you must also like tariffs and be against free trade, because it is essentially the same thing. Protecting a small portion of domestic workers/industries at the expense of everyone else in the country, as a result of higher prices.

 

[My First Name Is Paul]

Having recently graduated college with an engineering degree, I can tell you straight up that the best students in my class were foreigners. Not only that, but most of them weren't able to get their H1-B Visas and were sent home. That's right, we just kicked out some of the smartest people in the country. My two smartest friends are now going to work in Hong Kong, and now instead of adding to our economy, we have to compete with them. There should be no cap on skilled/educated H1-B visas.

Having lived and worked in Silicon Valley for the last 8 years, I can tell you that in the work world there are plenty of average foreign workers here on H1B visas taking lower pay than average American workers would accept. All of the H1B visas seem to go to big corps, so it's an effective way to keep costs down versus startups.

The H1B visa holders are basically held hostage by the employer because they cannot apply for jobs at any other employer, which removes an important free market element from the labor market.

 

[Truth Warrior]

So you are saying everyone in the country should pay higher prices for IT related goods just to help the IT workers?

If so, then you must also like tariffs and be against free trade, because it is essentially the same thing. Protecting a small portion of domestic workers/industries at the expense of everyone else in the country, as a result of higher prices.

Nope! Not even close. Care to guess again?

 

[apc3161]

Nope! Not even close. Care to guess again?

Alright, so what are you advocating?

 

[apc3161]

The H1B visa holders are basically held hostage by the employer because they cannot apply for jobs at any other employer, which removes an important free market element from the labor market.

That's more of an argument for getting rid of the program altogether, and allowing anyone to come here and work, which is something I am in favor of.

 

[Truth Warrior]

Alright, so what are you advocating?

Our Mission

The Programmers Guild advances the interests of technical and professional workers in information technology (IT) fields. The Programmers' Guild provides a forum where tech workers can speak as a group and be heard; where we can act as a group to advocate our interests; and where we can present our concerns as a group to those whose decisions affect our lives. Our goal is to improve the work and the workplaces of technical professionals across the spectrum of IT fields and disciplines. Technology workers across the board must stand together against the forces that put our careers at risk, such as:

• Replacement by H-1B and L-1 visa workers
• Outsourcing jobs to offshore contractors
• Shifting jobs to overseas facilities
• False claims of a labor shortage in our profession
• Conversion of pensions to cash balance plans
• Age discrimination
• Job ads drafted with intent to exclude U.S. applicants
• Lack of respect for our training, experience, knowledge, and past achievements

Finally, the Programmers Guild assists the growing numbers in our profession who are unemployed.

Among a whole lot of other things,BTW. I'll bet you're a supporter of NAFTA too and other "government managed" trade also. If so, millions of American ex-blue-collar workers also have a few bones to pick with you too.

The stealth war on the American middle class continues. Are you the next war casualty?

 

[apc3161]

# Replacement by H-1B and L-1 visa workers
# Outsourcing jobs to offshore contractors
# Shifting jobs to overseas facilities

So you want all Americans to pay higher prices for IT related services in order to protect your industry and your salaries? If that's not the case, why are you fighting against those things?