Guns don't kill people, prescription SSRI's* do.

[afwjam]

Lanza had been through the psychiatric system and medicated just like almost every other school shooter. Its odd that the school shootings really became frequent starting in the late 80's about the time a large number of people started taking SSRI's. As someone who has driven my motorcycle at 150 MPH in the middle of the night do to a SSRI* induced manic episode, I know that the side effects can be very dangerous. Its a connection I made a while ago, that the media and politicians are definitely not talking about. I am happy myself NOT to be taking SSRI's.*

http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

*Side effect symptoms may include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, dizziness, nausea, feeling faint, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, pruritus/itching, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity

Trying to get some traction for this idea on Reddit, not sure they wanna hear or think about it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16gsu4/guns_dont_kill_people_prescription_ssris_do/

 

[Peace Piper]

Trying to get some traction for this idea on Reddit, not sure they wanna hear or think about it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16gsu4/guns_dont_kill_people_prescription_ssris_do/

Throwing this into some of their faces has lead to some interesting responses.

Mostly, it's just ignored:

Sometimes they actually start bashing MM, then total confusion sets in and they give up.

Here's their numero uno Gun Grabber Extraordinaire saying -- almost shouting-- that it might be the DRUGS!
They Can't Handle The Truth!! Even when it's rubbed into their filthy hypocritical faces.

Edit- Add this:



That's Robert F. Kennedy's 9th kid Douglas Harriman Kennedy!
Double Fun!

 

[squarepusher]

Do you have evidence Adam Lanza was on prescription drugs?

 

[afwjam]

Throwing this into some of their faces has lead to some interesting responses.

Mostly, it's just ignored:

Sometimes they actually start bashing MM, then total confusion sets in and they give up.

Here's their numero uno Gun Grabber Extraordinaire saying -- almost shouting-- that it might be the DRUGS!
They Can't Handle The Truth!! Even when it's rubbed into their filthy hypocritical faces.

Edit- Add this:



That's Robert F. Kennedy's 9th kid Douglas Harriman Kennedy!
Double Fun!

Great stuff, added it to the reddit post.

 

[afwjam]

Do you have evidence Adam Lanza was on prescription drugs?

There is very little evidence of him in the past couple years. Multiple stories have been run saying he was medicated.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/15/1170258/--He-was-on-medication

 

[TywinLannister]

This is like blaming diet sodas for causing obesity. People with mental illness are more likely to take antidepressants. So when a crazy person does something crazy, chances are good that he was taking one of these drugs. Correlation does not imply causation. The vast majority of people taking these drugs have mild depression and don't do crazy things. This is the same logic liberals use to blame guns for crime.

 

[Peace Piper]

This is like blaming diet sodas for causing obesity. People with mental illness are more likely to take antidepressants. So when a crazy person does something crazy, chances are good that he was taking one of these drugs. Correlation does not imply causation. The vast majority of people taking these drugs have mild depression and don't do crazy things. This is the same logic liberals use to blame guns for crime.

You took the time to read this thread and post, now if I could respectfully suggest you take just a minute or so and scan, just scanning should get the point across, the following paper at the US Government National Institutes of Health:

Antidepressants and Violence-problems at the Interface of Medicine & Law
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564177/

Both clinical trial and pharmacovigilance data point to possible links between these drugs and violent behaviours. The legal cases outlined returned a variety of verdicts that may in part have stemmed from different judicial processes. Many jurisdictions appear not to have considered the possibility that a prescription drug may induce violence.

In these trials, hostile events are found to excess in both adults and children on paroxetine compared with placebo, and are found across indications, and both on therapy and during withdrawal. The rates were highest in children with obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), where the odds ratio of a hostile event was 17 times greater (95% confidence interval [CI], 2.22–130.0).

Another mechanism that may contribute to hostile events is treatment-induced emotional blunting. Several reports published since 1990 have linked SSRI intake with the production of emotional blunting, detachment, or an amotivational syndrome, described in one report as the equivalent to a “chemical lobotomy” [26–29]

Much Much More at link

in case you don't go to the link at least read this from the first case study:

Annex: The Illustrative Medico-Legal Cases

Case 1

DS was a 60-year-old man with a history of five prior anxiety/depressive episodes. These did not involve suicidality, aggressive behaviour, or other serious disturbance. All prior episodes had resolved within several weeks. In 1990 DS had had an episode of depression, which his doctor treated with fluoxetine. He had a clear adverse reaction to fluoxetine involving agitation, restlessness and possible hallucinations, which worsened over a three-week period despite treatment with trazodone and propranolol that might have been expected to minimise the severity of such a reaction. After fluoxetine was discontinued DS responded rapidly to imipramine.

In 1998, a new family doctor, unaware of this adverse reaction to fluoxetine, prescribed paroxetine 20 mg to DS, for what was diagnosed as an anxiety disorder. Two days later having had, it is believed, two doses of medication, DS using a gun put three bullets each through the heads of his wife, his daughter who was visiting, and his nine-month-old granddaughter before killing himself...MORE>>

This describes PERFECTLY AND EXACTLY WHAT IS BEING DESCRIBED IN SHOOTING AFTER SHOOTING

and we are all in danger. Don't forget the drugged up vets either.

America's Medicated Army
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1812055-2,00.html

At least 115 soldiers killed themselves last year, including 36 in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army said on May 29. That's the highest toll since it started keeping such records in 1980. Nearly 40% of Army suicide victims in 2006 and 2007 took psychotropic drugs — overwhelmingly, selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) like Prozac and Zoloft. While the Army cites failed relationships as the primary cause, some outside experts sense a link between suicides and prescription-drug use — though there is also no way of knowing how many suicide attempts the antidepressants may have prevented by improving a soldier's spirits. "The high percentage of U.S. soldiers attempting suicide after taking SSRIs should raise serious concerns," says Dr. Joseph Glenmullen, who teaches psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. "And there's no question they're using them to prop people up in difficult circumstances."----->MORE

Remember: IT SAYS RIGHT ON THE LABEL that suicide is a possible side effect.

 

[Peace Piper]

Now the thread title is not visible to me in any of these categories:
hot new controversial top

it also says:
Welcome to r/Politics! Please note: US politics, news only and no meme images. For a place with stricter moderation and civil discussion, please visit /r/Ask_Politics.

so the places without "strict moderation" won't allow this to be discussed?

This is outrageous! What is going on here? Maybe the Reddit staff is all on SSRIs?
What is the reason for the reluctance to discuss whether drugs with suicide warnings on the bottle are dangerous?

 

[aloneinthewilderness]

This is sort of on/off topic, but it's something I've been thinking about while people on both sides are talking about mental health issues past and present determining whether or not one should own a firearm. While I am in total agreement that SSRIs can be dangerous, and that they should not be given out like candy to anybody and everybody for everything, I have seen benefits to them as well. My wife is currently on Paxil, and is much better off for the time being. She recognizes that it is a serious drug, and it is not something that she should be on for the rest of her life. For now, though, it is helping her, along with therapy, to recover from PSTD caused by childhood trauma. Could she do it without medication? Maybe, but I have witnessed a very real difference in her quality of mental health since she started taking it.

I have been on Zoloft, and have voluntarily committed myself to a psych ward when I went through some really dark times caused by things going on in my life. At the least the Zoloft calmed my emotions enough to allow me to move on and get back to normal. I was only on it for about two months, and I decided that was enough. I have no desire to go back on any SSRI ever, but I cannot deny that it helped. Again, I may have been able get back to normal without meds, but I still believe it was beneficial.

I'm not necessarily here to defend SSRIs, the point I am trying to make is that going through rough times and being diagnosed with certain things should not strip me or anyone else of their right to self defense with a firearm. When I decided to seek professional help, I knew that it would not affect my ability to own guns. If the law made it so that I could not, I would have never, ever sought that help. While I am not, and was not a danger to anybody, I can see that same situation causing people who may need help more than I did to not seek the counseling or care that they need, and that could cause catastrophe.

Most here are not advocating for any new laws or restrictions for firearms ownership, but I think this is something that needs to be considered when listening to those who are calling for better mental health screenings. Discouraging people to seek professional help (good help, not drug pushers with a medical license) by threatening their rights is not the solution.

 

[tttppp]

Lanza had been through the psychiatric system and medicated just like almost every other school shooter. Its odd that the school shootings really became frequent starting in the late 80's about the time a large number of people started taking SSRI's. As someone who has driven my motorcycle at 150 MPH in the middle of the night do to a SSRI* induced manic episode, I know that the side effects can be very dangerous. Its a connection I made a while ago, that the media and politicians are definitely not talking about. I am happy myself NOT to be taking SSRI's.*

http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

*Side effect symptoms may include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, dizziness, nausea, feeling faint, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, pruritus/itching, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity

Trying to get some traction for this idea on Reddit, not sure they wanna hear or think about it.
http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/16gsu4/guns_dont_kill_people_prescription_ssris_do/

What the doctors dont tell you is they kill your liver and kidneys big time. If you have pain they can make it much worse. It can cause impotence and severe weight gain. Overall they cause more depression because the patients feel so depressed about their bodies.

 

[presence]

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/195/3/211.full
Emotional side-effects of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors: qualitative study

 

[tttppp]

This is like blaming diet sodas for causing obesity. People with mental illness are more likely to take antidepressants. So when a crazy person does something crazy, chances are good that he was taking one of these drugs. Correlation does not imply causation. The vast majority of people taking these drugs have mild depression and don't do crazy things. This is the same logic liberals use to blame guns for crime.

You dont know the mental health industry very well. These drugs have bad side effects which makes you need to take more drugs. Additionally, they dont fix the problem, so you are likely to stay on them in the long term. They basically want all mental patients sitting there waiting for their disability check each month. They have no interest in you having a real life. Additionally, when they switch drugs on you, there is a huge risk something bad can happen. People dont just happily take these drugs and live a normal life for the most part.

 

[Peace Piper]

This is sort of on/off topic, but it's something I've been thinking about while people on both sides are talking about mental health issues past and present determining whether or not one should own a firearm. While I am in total agreement that SSRIs can be dangerous, and that they should not be given out like candy to anybody and everybody for everything, I have seen benefits to them as well. My wife is currently on Paxil, and is much better off for the time being. She recognizes that it is a serious drug, and it is not something that she should be on for the rest of her life. For now, though, it is helping her, along with therapy, to recover from PSTD caused by childhood trauma. Could she do it without medication? Maybe, but I have witnessed a very real difference in her quality of mental health since she started taking it.

I am all for whatever helps people get through the day. It becomes a problem if the cure is more dangerous (short and long term) than the problem it is supposed to fix.

The thing about our particular system is this: Maybe (I think probably but that's just me) there is a natural substance (cannabis? helps lots) that could do the same thing without needing suicide warnings. But that potential is not pursued due to the fact that plants cannot be patented.

I don't want to see these drugs outlawed, but something is making these kids pick up guns and shoot their schools up. What is it? On the other hand, Cannabis helps hundreds of thousands get through the day and when was the last time you heard of a school shooter being high on cannabis? It's always ALWAYS SSRI's. Yet Cannabis is illegal to grow and possess per Federal Law.

So the "cure" in this case means that we have tens of thousands of potential ticking time bombs. This is a problem.

NO?

 

[tttppp]

I am all for whatever helps people get through the day. It becomes a problem if the cure is more dangerous (short and long term) than the problem it is supposed to fix.

The thing about our particular system is this: Maybe (I think probably but that's just me) there is a natural substance (cannabis? helps lots) that could do the same thing without needing suicide warnings. But that potential is not pursued due to the fact that plants cannot be patented.

I don't want to see these drugs outlawed, but something is making these kids pick up guns and shoot their schools up. What is it? On the other hand, Cannabis helps hundreds of thousands get through the day and when was the last time you heard of a school shooter being high on cannabis? It's always ALWAYS SSRI's. Yet Cannabis is illegal to grow and possess per Federal Law.

So the "cure" in this case means that we have tens of thousands of potential ticking time bombs. This is a problem.

NO?

Chinese traditional medicine is still legal. That can fix most of their problems without side effects.

 

[aloneinthewilderness]

I am all for whatever helps people get through the day. It becomes a problem if the cure is more dangerous (short and long term) than the problem it is supposed to fix.

The thing about our particular system is this: Maybe (I think probably but that's just me) there is a natural substance (cannabis? helps lots) that could do the same thing without needing suicide warnings. But that potential is not pursued due to the fact that plants cannot be patented.

I don't want to see these drugs outlawed, but something is making these kids pick up guns and shoot their schools up. What is it? On the other hand, Cannabis helps hundreds of thousands get through the day and when was the last time you heard of a school shooter being high on cannabis? It's always ALWAYS SSRI's. Yet Cannabis is illegal to grow and possess per Federal Law.

So the "cure" in this case means that we have tens of thousands of potential ticking time bombs. This is a problem.

NO?

I agree completely that cannabis can work wonders for people suffering from depression, anxiety, and many other things. Unfortunately, cannabis was not enough to pull me from the black hole I was in when I decided to go on an SSRI. Every other time I've gone through rough times it has been more than sufficient, though. I also agree that SSRIs are dangerous, and clearly they have played a part in some of the violently crazy things some people have done.

 

[TywinLannister]

You dont know the mental health industry very well. These drugs have bad side effects which makes you need to take more drugs. Additionally, they dont fix the problem, so you are likely to stay on them in the long term. They basically want all mental patients sitting there waiting for their disability check each month. They have no interest in you having a real life. Additionally, when they switch drugs on you, there is a huge risk something bad can happen. People dont just happily take these drugs and live a normal life for the most part.

Sorry but thats garbage. I know plenty of people who have been taking them for years and who have been helped tremendously by these drugs. All drugs can cause side effects in some people, for other people they are beneficial.

 

[tttppp]

Sorry but thats garbage. I know plenty of people who have been taking them for years and who have been helped tremendously by these drugs. All drugs can cause side effects in some people, for other people they are beneficial.

Thats bs. Virtually all medication is bad for you whether you get a benefit or not. Some may get the desired result, but most will get unpleasant side effects. Thats very common in the mental health industry. Plus why the hell would someone with MILD depression take SSRIs? How stupid can you be? You really dont understand this topic. There is no such thing as drugs that a beneficial for you. You dont just take drugs because they are good for you, because they aren't. Ask your friends with mild depression if its worth it to become impotent and gain lots of weight they will never get rid of.

 

[TywinLannister]

Thats bs. Virtually all medication is bad for you whether you get a benefit or not. Some may get the desired result, but most will get unpleasant side effects. Thats very common in the mental health industry. Plus why the hell would someone with MILD depression take SSRIs? How stupid can you be? You really dont understand this topic. There is no such thing as drugs that a beneficial for you. You dont just take drugs because they are good for you, because they aren't. Ask your friends with mild depression if its worth it to become impotent and gain lots of weight they will never get rid of.

Riiiiight. All medicine is bad for you. People are so much better dying from infections instead of taking antibiotics, or getting polio instead of getting vaccinated.

 

[tttppp]

Riiiiight. All medicine is bad for you. People are so much better dying from infections instead of taking antibiotics, or getting polio instead of getting vaccinated.

If medicine is so good for you, why dont you start taking some? Have a side of medicine with your meal since its so good for you. And the medicines you listed cause problems too. You dont just take them thinking they are good for you.

 

[acptulsa]

Riiiiight. All medicine is bad for you. People are so much better dying from infections instead of taking antibiotics, or getting polio instead of getting vaccinated.

Right. All medicine is bad for you. All of it.

'Getting polio instead of getting vaccinated' is a slap in the faces of all those people who got polio from their vaccine. Hell, it's a slap in the face to all those people who got the flu from their flu vaccine. It happens all the time. In fact, I'd say that these days more people get polio from the polio vaccine than from any other method of transmission. I'm not arguing that it isn't rare. I'm not saying that we don't have a whole lot less polio now than we did before the vaccine. I'm saying that's the calculated risk you take when you take a polio vaccine. Period.

Antibiotics are proven to suppress the immune system. When you've got an active infection which is overwhelming your immune system right now, that's of little consequence. But taking antibiotics as a preventative is bad for you. Chemotherapy does nasty things to you. It makes your hair fall out, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. If it's harder on your cancer than it is on you, you may decide it's worth it and you may well be right. If you don't have cancer, you're an idiot to take chemo.

Some people belong to a religion that forbids medication. Some of them die as a result--needlessly, despite the fact that they could be saved. Some people will put 'most any drug in their system on the chance that it might be fun. Some of them die as a result--needlessly--as well.

Any medication requires a cost/benefit analysis. Any medication. Most have some benefit. All have some cost. Cold medicines make you less uncomfortable, but the price you pay is the cold lingers longer. Some people know this, and take them anyway. I don't. Some people don't think they can endure the symptoms, or they just don't want a cold to affect their performance at work. I am not one of them.

When doctors don't explain the risks and the costs, or when people don't listen because they saw a commercial and they're sold on the benefits to the point where they won't listen to the costs and risks, that's when there's a problem. And the risks of SSRIs are being downplayed right now. Our duty is to say, hey, guess what?