eduardo89
Banned
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2009
- Messages
- 21,295
God punishes if you don't seek his forgiveness. If you confess your sins, repent and ask for his forgiveness he forgives everything.
Gnostic Christianity
- Thread starter AFPVet
- Start date
God punishes if you don't seek his forgiveness. If you confess your sins, repent and ask for his forgiveness he forgives everything.
TER
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 17,946
So you still seem to be stuck with the idea that it is God who places us into eternal torment rather then understand that it will be the condition of our hearts due to our own doing which we will cause us to live in eternal torment. I wish I could better explain it to you, but I guess I can't.
TER
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 17,946
Would you rather have been created without free will? You could have, but then you would never know true love.
otherone
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2011
- Messages
- 9,633
You haven't answered the question. Let's address things as they are:
God is Sovereign
God created EVERYTHING
Everything is exactly as God intended it to be.
God Made the Garden
God made Man flawed
God made the serpent.
Let the games begin.
If God wished us to know "true love" in the absence of free will, then, as sovereign, he could make this possible.
Last edited:
TER
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 17,946
Not exactly. Love which is eternal and in the image of the divine must be in conjunction with free will which is also a divine attribute. You think God could make us experience true love in the abscence of free will, but the two cannot be separated. True love requires true freedom.
As for stating that God made man flawed, again you misunderstand the condition of Adam before the fall. Adam was not flawed, unless you believe that freedom of will is a flaw and not a divine attribute.
TER
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 17,946
Because that is the nature of true love. This definition of love is not limited to Christian understanding, but according to the philosophies of men from time memorial. Love that is forced is not divine love. Love that is not given freely is not love in the image of the eternal and divine.
I wish I knew, but I dont! This is the Tree of the Knoweldge of Good and Evil, a knowledge which was too great for Adam and Evil to handle. We don't know because it has yet to be revealed to us in full why evil 'exists', and we are not ready to learn because the power of such information is something which may be too great for us to handle. But on the Last Day, the truth will be revealed, and then, whether we are spiritually prepared or not, we will find out the truths and the mysteries will be revealed.
otherone
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2011
- Messages
- 9,633
What he is saying is that Man cannot 'truly' love God unless he 'chooses' to (free will), as opposed to automatically loving God which would be 'compelled' by God.
This doctrine has it's downside, however. By making the claim that 'true love' comes from 'free will', then God cannot truly love us, as he has no choice in the matter...as god loves us 'unconditionally'. Why God 'needs' Humans to Love him is a mystery.
Supernaut
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2012
- Messages
- 104
TER
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 17,946
And where did you get the idea that God 'needs' anything? That certainly is not my definition of God, and neither is it the definition of God according to Christian theology. God has no need of anything, let alone the adoration and praise of us creatures, who mock Him and fight Him and accuse Him of evil. Rather, it is WE who need Him, who find life only in Him, being and sustenance squarely through Him. What doctrinal innovation is this that God 'needs' humans to do anything? My my, I think you quite misunderstand, or at the least, misjudge the nature of God.
I have a question for you. Have you read the Church Fathers? If you haven't, then your knowledge of Christian theology is indeed quite lacking and it would explain why you continue to misrepresent it post after post.
I urge you to spend less time debating me, who am a falling sinner who perpetually falls, and more time reading the writings of the saints. I think it would clear up a lot of the inaccuracies you have regarding the Christian understanding of God. You seem to have skipped two thousand years of witnesses, martyrs and saints and rather fixated yourself upon some innovative doctrines which you keep referring to which are foreign to the faith of the Apostles, such as God needs humans to love Him and that He unjustly condemns His children to hell. Where do these teachings come from? What is your Patristic source to make such remarkably misrepresented Christian claims?
Revolution9
Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Messages
- 9,323
Paul never spoke with the physical Jesus unlike those of the books of the Gnostics who were disciples that Christ had personally chosen around him. I personally pay no mind to Paul/Saul who was a ritualizer and clique maker and concerned with outward appearances and setting up hierarchies...Some may call me heretical but I have no proof it was not a djinn that spoke to Saul on the road to Damascus. If he was to be so important to the Christian church then why no contact with the Christ during his sojourn on Earth/Urantia? My focus is on the teachings of Christ and his being as the living prime template of Man.
Rev9
Revolution9
Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2007
- Messages
- 9,323
True love is given in the spirit of freedom, not as a binder like so many who think they love use it as. The serpent is the DNA coil. It is what keeps us amused and enraptured with the 3D laboratory Universe as our hologram of our own personal event horizon. If taken in such context one can see the wiles of the serpent metaphysically in analogy. DNA is your plugin to The Matrix.
Rev9
otherone
Member
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2011
- Messages
- 9,633
I am highly suspect of any institution packaged and promoted by the state. With Easter a few weeks away, I'm reminded of the fact that the Jews are blamed for Christ's death, not the Romans. In addition, Paul's message of 'rampant' conversion of gentiles seems more expedient (and less painful) than conversion to Judaism as a prerequisite of Christianity, as Peter argued. Christianity teaches obedience, subservience, and submission to temporal authority. It is an efficient weapon when wielded by the state.
TER
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 17,946
lol What have I implied that you think I refuse to come right out and say?
Last edited:
TER
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 17,946
rev, where do you get your information that the the gnostic gospels were written by the disciples Christ had personally chosen around Him? Just because it is written Gospel of Judas doesn't mean he wrote it. In fact, he killed himself before he had a chance to write anything. Similarly, the other gnostic gospels that the Church from the beginning has proclaimed to be of dubious and heretical origin also where not written by the ones they are named after, not coming into existence well into the second century when they were fabricated by the old pagan gnostic cults that adopted some of Christ's teachings and then created a new religion not at all in accordance to the faith once and for all handed down to the saints.
Similar threads
