GM to import Chinese cars; trickle in 2011 will turn to flood in 2014

[moostraks]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/openroad/post/2009/05/66670925/1

This is what the goal was for GM from the beginning. While Americans who produce for a living can no longer afford to eat, GM will survive as a global corporation. This never was about the union, it was about a corporation wanting to shed its responsibilties.

PBGC will take care of retirees at taxpayer expense. Welfare will care for former employees at taxpayer expense. Bonus prize was the bailout "loan".

Anyone else want to be ill over this???

 

[Kraig]

LMAO, so we bailed them out too keep production in America and this is what we get? Grats to all the morons who supported the bailout. I would be ill over this if it wasn't for the fact that I couldn't be less surprised.

 

[tmosley]

Good for them. If you hadn't seized the factories, some efficient person would have bought them and out-competed the Chinese. Now, you'll starve, even as you work.

 

[KenInMontiMN]

Tariffs. Enforced balance of trade within reasonable limits of tolerance. Both major parties should get together to demand this. Never was any such thing as free trade anyway.

 

[tmosley]

Tariffs. Enforced balance of trade within reasonable limits of tolerance. Both major parties should get together to demand this. Never was any such thing as free trade anyway.

Wow. Just wow.

Tariffs never helped ANYBODY. The only thing they can do is destroy your economy through trade wars.

 

[Jeez]

Not suprised, can't compete with China were workers make less than 8 dollars a day plus China being no 1 car market you need to be cozy with Chinese government if you want to compete there.

 

[TonySutton]

I agree in general but to be realistic about the article. It is talking about 50K cars in 2014. Compare that to the 8M sold by GM in 2008. Short term it is a drop in the bucket. Looking at the plans made public, it is my guess GM is moving jobs out of the US as a bargaining chip. They will use it in future years to bargain with the UAW.

 

[Feenix566]

Anybody who thinks this is bad news, please read "Economics in One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt. Thanks.

 

[KenInMontiMN]

Wow. Just wow.

Tariffs never helped ANYBODY. The only thing they can do is destroy your economy through trade wars.

This country was built with tariffs. It has fallen to pieces in their absence. Get the facts straight.

The negative with tariffs is that they generally end up being pork for particular industries. That's because politicians are given too much leeway in enacting such targeted protectionism.

Positive tariffs run across the board on all imported goods, and better yet can be implemented to solely target trade partners wildly out of balance.

Enforcing reasonable, across the board trade balance isn't protectionism, its survival for a nation's economy and wealth.

Ron Paul called for across the board tariffs as part of his '08 run and was right to do so. Massive ongoing growth in external private debt is every bit as destructive and unsustainable to a nation's economy as the expanding public national debt is.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yeah, I remember the days when we used to care about the trade imbalance.

 

[tmosley]

Not suprised, can't compete with China were workers make less than 8 dollars a day plus China being no 1 car market you need to be cozy with Chinese government if you want to compete there.

Um, yes, you can, with an efficient work force and sufficient capital investment. You can beat them on both cost and quality, but we haven't been reinvesting in capital, rather we have been paying bloated union wages, and lobbying Congress for more money. The Chinese are the ones who understand capitalism now, and they will crush us because of it.

Within a few years, workers here will be making 8 Yuan/day, if we're lucky.

 

[angelatc]

Good for them. If you hadn't seized the factories, some efficient person would have bought them and out-competed the Chinese. Now, you'll starve, even as you work.

Nobody in their right mind would bring a car factory to Michigan, when the South is chock full of right-to-work states.

 

[angelatc]

Wow. Just wow.

Tariffs never helped ANYBODY. The only thing they can do is destroy your economy through trade wars.

Look around....just because we dropped tariffs doesn't mean the trade war ended. Tariffs are only a weapon, and one that we should indeed use.

 

[sdczen]

I really hope people start recognizing these "Symptoms" of the illness, instead of blaming the corporations. The corporations wouldn't be in the position they are now without the government sponsored monopolies & subsidies & regulation.

This is just another symptom of "managed economic activity". I'm sure Obama's newly appointed CEO of GM is really heartbroken that they are importing "Green" Chinese cars into the USA.

 

[Jeez]

Um, yes, you can, with an efficient work force and sufficient capital investment. You can beat them on both cost and quality, but we haven't been reinvesting in capital, rather we have been paying bloated union wages, and lobbying Congress for more money. The Chinese are the ones who understand capitalism now, and they will crush us because of it.

Within a few years, workers here will be making 8 Yuan/day, if we're lucky.

You can't no matter unless you have fully automated facility with no workers what so ever, no matter how much more productivity you can squeeze out wih your efficient work force you are not going to make up for cheap labor costs (less than 1/25th of what it costs here). Besides In terms of capital expense, some of plants being built there and India are on par or superior to the ones here so i do not know how you are going to "exceed" China in that department.

Plus couple that with very relaxed environmental regulations there China is far better suited for any manufacturing. Yes Chinese understand capitalism cause they do not have worry about democracy (just look at its neighbor down south).

Only way for US can compete with China is drop minimum wages (allow illegals to work at low wages), drop environment regulations, illegalize unions and take any rights workers have. Not exactly a pretty sight welcome to capitalism...

 

[angelatc]

I agree in general but to be realistic about the article. It is talking about 50K cars in 2014. Compare that to the 8M sold by GM in 2008. Short term it is a drop in the bucket. Looking at the plans made public, it is my guess GM is moving jobs out of the US as a bargaining chip. They will use it in future years to bargain with the UAW.

How optomistic! I predict that China will be buying all the cars and there won't be any need to negotiate with the UAW. Those jobs aren't coming back, especially with the tax code structured the way it currently is. Obama wants to change it, and it is one thing I agree with him on. Right now coporations doing business overseas don't have to pay taxes on the income they earn offshore until they bring it to America, but they are allowed to write off those same expenses.

So why wouldn't they move offshore with all that income deferred?

 

[sdczen]

Only way for US can compete with China is drop minimum wages (allow illegals to work at low wages), drop environment regulations, illegalize unions and take any rights workers have. Not exactly a pretty sight welcome to capitalism...

Welcome to Capitalism?! What we have now is NOT Capitalism and it's not pretty at all. In fact it's this managed economy that has caused all of the ills we have today.

I do agree that we need to drop the minimum wage & environmental regulations. I don't care if Unions exist, however, they must compete with individuals and labor organizations. A monopoly on labor is no better than any other monopoly.

Workers have always had rights. They have the right to enter into a contract with an employer and negotiate the items therein. If at such time they no longer want to work for said employer, the worker has the right to leave to another place of employment, or start his/her own company to compete with the one they left.

 

[tmosley]

You can't no matter unless you have fully automated facility with no workers what so ever, no matter how much more productivity you can squeeze out wih your efficient work force you are not going to make up for cheap labor costs (less than 1/25th of what it costs here). Besides In terms of capital expense, some of plants being built there and India are on par or superior to the ones here so i do not know how you are going to "exceed" China in that department.

Plus couple that with very relaxed environmental regulations there China is far better suited for any manufacturing. Yes Chinese understand capitalism cause they do not have worry about democracy (just look at its neighbor down south).

Only way for US can compete with China is drop minimum wages (allow illegals to work at low wages), drop environment regulations, illegalize unions and take any rights workers have. Not exactly a pretty sight welcome to capitalism...

There is a natural barrier that the Chinese have to overcome to ship their cars here--the Pacific Ocean. Shipping costs are a bitch, landing somewhere around $1500 per vehicle (that's an absolute guess, but it seems like a reasonable figure), depending on size. Thus, that is $1500 dollars that US companies could spend to produce a vehicle, on top of whatever the Chinese spend. That is enough for quite a few salaries and profit, while STILL undercutting the foreigners, IF we had good factories. We don't.

The measures you describe that are possible for the US to take are not those of capitalism. Yes, you drop minimum wages, but it won't just be illegals coming to work. Getting rid of minimum wages will also drop prices of goods and services everywhere, meaning that you can now live on those lower wages. Yes, you should also drop environmental regulations, while at the same time allowing aggrieved parties to file suit for any damages that pollution causes them. You can't make unions illegal, nor should you, as they are protected by the Constitution (right of peaceable assembly, speech, etc), but they should remove the laws that FORCE PEOPLE TO JOIN. A union shouldn't receive special privileges any more than any person. As for "taking the worker's rights", I'm not sure what you mean by that. Workers in both the US and China have the same rights, that is, at will employment. Anyone can quit or be fired at any time.

I would suggest you do some serious lurking, or start asking some good questions, because your knowledge of economics and your understanding of the relative economic systems of the US and China (and presumably all other economies) is severely lacking.

 

[KenInMontiMN]

the worker has the right to leave to another place of employment, or start his/her own company to compete with the one they left.

....after the no-complete clause they had to sign as a condition of employment expires, perhaps.

If you value liberty, you recognize worker's rights to bargain collectively if they so choose.

If you value liberty, you deplore global trade policy that is fast turning China's govt into the most powerful player on the planet- a very dangerous direction.

 

[tmosley]

Look around....just because we dropped tariffs doesn't mean the trade war ended. Tariffs are only a weapon, and one that we should indeed use.

Hmmm, things got cheaper when we dropped the tariffs, so I guess the easiest way to win a trade war is to surrender your weapons.

In fact, this is probably true of all types of war. The only real way to win is not to participate.