Gary Johnson Gary Johnson: Statist

[JohnAshman]

Ok.

Let me rephrase that so you understand what I mean.

I don't like GJ. At his best he is libertarian lite and he clearly has a hard time understanding certain things. He supports the legalization of marijuana BUT only because it would save us cash not to incarcerate so many people and he doesn't support legalizing other drugs, he says he would support an audit of the Fed BUT when questioned doesn't seem to know what the Fed does or why we should do it, he says that he is against military intervention in foreign nations BUT he supports "humanitarian missions", the list goes on and on.

Recently I attended a RP event in Raleigh, NC and there were Gary Johnson volunteers there handing out pamphlets and bumper stickers next to the RP merchandise. Can you guess how many people actually took a pamphlet or a bumper sticker? I'll give you a hint: It's the number that looks like an O.

GJ is simply trying to ride the coattails of someone with a much large following than himself whose views vaguely resemble his own.

Ron Paul is an intellectual libertarian, Gary is a common sense libertarian.

The difference is, Gary makes sense to a much larger portion of the country. Ron Paul's hard core intellectualism keeps him stuck as a minority, unable to win a state, or even anything but about 1% of the electorate. And most of his followers only parrot what he says and don't actually understand the authors they insist everyone else read.

 

[JohnAshman]

Let me rephrase that so that it's more realistic. Even if I voted he wouldn't crack .5%

So, 25% higher than Ron Paul ever did.

 

[Travlyr]

Ron Paul is an intellectual libertarian, Gary is a common sense libertarian.

The difference is, Gary makes sense to a much larger portion of the country. Ron Paul's hard core intellectualism keeps him stuck as a minority, unable to win a state, or even anything but about 1% of the electorate. And most of his followers only parrot what he says and don't actually understand the authors they insist everyone else read.

Does it really make common sense to you that a libertarian will build prisons and privatize them? Really? Gary Johnson built two of them and privatized 1/2 of New Mexico's prisons during his tenure as governor.

 

[JohnAshman]

Read his statements and Stossel interview about the vote for "the fence". He doesn't actually plan on making the border more secure. When he talks about things in relation to the border, the ideas actually open it. He's slammed frequently by Tancredo types for exactly that.

Have you ever read his website?


A MATTER OF NATIONAL SECURITY
A nation without borders is no nation at all.

It just doesn’t make sense to fight terrorists abroad while leaving our front door unlocked.

Unfortunately, for far too long, neither major political party has had the courage to do what is necessary to tackle the problem.

Instead, we’re presented with so-called “solutions” that involve amnesty proposals or further restricting Americans’ civil liberties through programs like REAL ID.

Ron Paul opposes both of these schemes and believes they will only make illegal immigration and the problems associated with it worse. He has been proud to see states exercising their Tenth Amendment rights and protecting their citizens by refusing to comply with the unconstitutional REAL ID law.

While the federal government neglects its constitutional responsibility to protect our borders, it continues to push mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care to illegal immigrants at a time when the states are drowning in debt. This must not be tolerated any longer.

Like most Americans, Ron Paul also understands just how valuable legal immigration is to our country.

Immigrants who want to work hard, obey our laws, and live the American Dream have always been great assets.

COMMON SENSE REFORMS
If elected President, Ron Paul will work to implement the following common sense reforms:

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

* Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.





Is that Ron Paul's site or Mitt Romney's? You wouldn't know if it didn't actually say "Ron Paul" a few times.

 

[JohnAshman]

Read his statements and Stossel interview about the vote for "the fence". He doesn't actually plan on making the border more secure. When he talks about things in relation to the border, the ideas actually open it. He's slammed frequently by Tancredo types for exactly that.

What this says is that Ron Paul either doesn't understand the Constitution, or is willfully lying about it when he claims that it's a constitutional duty of the US. It isn't. And it never was.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Have you ever read his website?


A MATTER OF NATIONAL SECURITY
A nation without borders is no nation at all.

It just doesn’t make sense to fight terrorists abroad while leaving our front door unlocked.

Unfortunately, for far too long, neither major political party has had the courage to do what is necessary to tackle the problem.

Instead, we’re presented with so-called “solutions” that involve amnesty proposals or further restricting Americans’ civil liberties through programs like REAL ID.

Ron Paul opposes both of these schemes and believes they will only make illegal immigration and the problems associated with it worse. He has been proud to see states exercising their Tenth Amendment rights and protecting their citizens by refusing to comply with the unconstitutional REAL ID law.

While the federal government neglects its constitutional responsibility to protect our borders, it continues to push mandates on the states to provide free education and medical care to illegal immigrants at a time when the states are drowning in debt. This must not be tolerated any longer.

Like most Americans, Ron Paul also understands just how valuable legal immigration is to our country.

Immigrants who want to work hard, obey our laws, and live the American Dream have always been great assets.

COMMON SENSE REFORMS
If elected President, Ron Paul will work to implement the following common sense reforms:

* Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

* No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

* Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

* End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.

* Protect Lawful Immigrants – As President, Ron Paul will encourage legal immigration by streamlining the entry process without rewarding lawbreakers.





Is that Ron Paul's site or Mitt Romney's? You wouldn't know if it didn't actually say "Ron Paul" a few times.

The official campaign has been an awful representation of Ron these two cycles, it's been my biggest gripe with them.

 

[JohnAshman]

The official campaign has been an awful representation of Ron these two cycles, it's been my biggest gripe with them.

Thanks for saying that. It reminds me of John McCain's "build the darned fence" moment. Come ON!!!! As Gary says "have some starch!"

It's like "no amnesty for those people who broke our unconstitutonal laws! We broke the law when we wrote them, but you can't break them or we'll NEVER forgive you!"

I would love to see someone, anyone, stand up and say "the US government and the INS owes immigrants a gigantic apology for our behavior, we've behaved atrociously and illegally". Of course, there's hardly a section of government that doesn't owe We the People a gigantic apology.

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

What this says is that Ron Paul either doesn't understand the Constitution, or is willfully lying about it when he claims that it's a constitutional duty of the US. It isn't. And it never was.

Mods have been seriously easing their grip on the banhammer lately.

 

[DerailingDaTrain]

Ron Paul is an intellectual libertarian, Gary is a common sense libertarian.

The difference is, Gary makes sense to a much larger portion of the country. Ron Paul's hard core intellectualism keeps him stuck as a minority, unable to win a state, or even anything but about 1% of the electorate. And most of his followers only parrot what he says and don't actually understand the authors they insist everyone else read.

Sounds like someone is pissed they haven't done enough reading. Don't worry I'm sure Gary will come out with another YouTube ad for you to watch in the coming weeks.

Edit: GJ appears on programs like RT, Fox, CNN, etc. and he parrots the same fucking line: "I think most of the US is socially tolerant and fiscally conservative" and then inevitably the interviewer will bring up his connection to marijuana and Gary Johnson will then spend half of the interview defending his position on marijuana.

Also, in all of his interviews, Gary Johnson brings up Ron Paul and says he will "continue the revolution". It makes me cringe

 

[JohnAshman]

Mods have been seriously easing their grip on the banhammer lately.

Are you suggesting I'm saying something that is incorrect? Or that people should be banned for saying the truth?

Ron is a great spokesperson for the Constitution EXCEPT when he starts saying that things that aren't in the Constitution are.

Aside from the Constitution, the default position of the libertarianism is NO government control over the freedom of migration.

 

[JohnAshman]

Sounds like someone is pissed they haven't done enough reading. Don't worry I'm sure Gary will come out with another YouTube ad for you to watch in the coming weeks.

Well, I've had to correct numerous people about the beliefs of the Austrian school and half of them don't know how to even properly spell Ludwig's last name. And I am only glancingly familar with their work. Enough that it is impossible to implement and would only create feudalism, dictatorships and warlords if it were. Not libertarianism, but actual anarchy.

Edit: GJ appears on programs like RT, Fox, CNN, etc. and he parrots the same fucking line: "I think most of the US is socially tolerant and fiscally conservative" and then inevitably the interviewer will bring up his connection to marijuana and Gary Johnson will then spend half of the interview defending his position on marijuana.

And? Your point?

Also, in all of his interviews, Gary Johnson brings up Ron Paul and says he will "continue the revolution". It makes me cringe

Well, he will. Unless you all take your balls and go home. You guys are so obsessed with Ron Paul, that you don't have a replacement for him when he retires from government this year. It doesn't have to be Gary Johnson, but he's stepping into the vaccuum YOU GUYS are creating by making it about the man and not the mission.

 

[Travlyr]

Well, I've had to correct numerous people about the beliefs of the Austrian school and half of them don't know how to even properly spell Ludwig's last name. And I am only glancingly familar with their work. Enough that it is impossible to implement and would only create feudalism, dictatorships and warlords if it were. Not libertarianism, but actual anarchy.

And? Your point?

Well, he will. Unless you all take your balls and go home. You guys are so obsessed with Ron Paul, that you don't have a replacement for him when he retires from government this year. It doesn't have to be Gary Johnson, but he's stepping into the vaccuum YOU GUYS are creating by making it about the man and not the mission.

Lee Wrights understood libertarianism much, much, better than Gary Johnson, but the Libertarian Party didn't pick him.

http://wrights2012.com/

 

[JohnAshman]

Lee Wrights understood libertarianism much, much, better than Gary Johnson, but the Libertarian Party didn't pick him.

http://wrights2012.com/

Maybe that's true. BUT who is Lee Wrights? What did he govern? What business did he create? He's just a political consultant. And that's fine, but as a purist, he is just like ALL the other libertarians who have failed. Might as well resurrect Harry Browne. He's just a clone of failure. Probably a really nice guy though. 1000 times as any people know Gary Johnson AND he's a better spokesman, if less perfect.

And, BTW, I don't think libertarianism should be overintellectualized. In fact, that is the problem with it. It's a VERY simple philosophy. The more you intellectualize it, the more people are turned off to it. Like Rothbard's idea that mothers should be able to sell their children or that kids should be able to leave their parents or that there should be no public land, that everyone should have their own immigration policy on their land, etc, etc.

That is literally KILLER stuff, and I don't mean in "cool" way either. As in suicidal.

 

[Travlyr]

Maybe that's true. BUT who is Lee Wrights? What did he govern? What business did he create? He's just a political consultant. And that's fine, but as a purist, he is just like ALL the other libertarians who have failed. Might as well resurrect Harry Browne. He's just a clone of failure. Probably a really nice guy though. 1000 times as any people know Gary Johnson AND he's a better spokesman, if less perfect.

The last Libertarian Party event I attended was in Albuquerque, NM with 17 other people. If you actually believe that Gary Johnson has any chance of becoming president, then I have a bridge to sell you. It is the Brooklyn Bridge and it can be yours for $5000.00.

 

[JohnAshman]

The last Libertarian Party event I attended was in Albuquerque, NM with 17 other people. If you actually believe that Gary Johnson has any chance of becoming president, then I have a bridge to sell you. It is the Brooklyn Bridge and it can be yours for $5000.00.

Well, of course he has a chance. It's small but we can make it bigger. If he can't get into the debates, the chances are that of a proverbial snowball. BUT, if he can get into the debates, his chances are significant, if still small.

The internet is much more powerful. And aside from this, libertarians aren't the type to go to meetings and be libertarians "together". But it's not about libertianISM, it's about freedom, pure and simple. Freedom, simplicity, low taxes, low hassle. Gary is framing the debate properly and in a way no libertarin has ever done. He can make it mainstream.

 

[green73]

And aside from this, libertarians aren't the type to go to meetings and be libertarians "together".

Have you heard of Ron Paul and his followers?

 

[Travlyr]

Have you heard of Ron Paul and his followers?

Are you referring to the 5000 to 10,000 people listening to his message wherever he goes?

 

[JohnAshman]

Have you heard of Ron Paul and his followers?

Ron Paul is not an actual libertarian. He's a "libertarian leaning social conservative".

 

[JohnAshman]

Again, not an actual libertarian.

 

[Travlyr]

Again, not an actual libertarian.

You really haven't read anything Ron Paul has written, have you?