Gary Johnson Money Bomb toady

Shouldn't we be encouraging Gary's supporters to vote for Ron, especially if Gary decides to drop out?

Honestly, our ideological opponents would absolutely love for this to become a battle between Ron and Gary, the two candidates who truly believe in freedom, while the rest of the pack laughs away as they continue to destroy the country.

Why did you edit your post? Pissing off Johnson's supporters is most certainly not the best idea!

For a very long time I have been proud libertarians don't make the best politicians. I'm actually very, very pleased that we're getting to the point where we need to get good at politics. But boy is it difficult to help us get there! :D We should always have had such problems. :)
 
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Why did you edit your post? Pissing off Johnson's supporters is most certainly not the best idea!
I decided that sentence didn't fit well in the paragraph, haha

But yeah -- Pissing off Johnson's supporters is not the best idea.

And I think we might be surprised at the people supporting Gary who wouldn't go for Ron otherwise. I saw some comments on HotAir to that effect.
 
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And I think we might be surprised at the people supporting Gary who wouldn't go for Ron otherwise. I saw some comments on HotAir to that effect.

Seems weird to me. But then, I can't deny they wouldn't be the first weird libertarians I ever met. In fact, I meet one often, having a mirror in the bathroom...
 
acp - you don't know toady? Really? Didn't somebody misspell a Rand bomb as "Rand Paul toady" instead of "today" and we've been running with the meme ever since?

I was pretty sure Rand's campaign copied the Collins, but I could be mistaken. Saw the Collins do it (initial use?) and shortly after Rands campaign.
 
I was pretty sure Rand's campaign copied the Collins, but I could be mistaken. Saw the Collins do it (initial use?) and shortly after Rands campaign.

Malkus said it originated as an error by Rand's campaign. I'd imagine Matt was the first one to see it and bring the meme to the masses here.
 
Most respectfully, you should know full well that this isn't a zero sum game. If it was, there would be no point in trying to spread our message. And be careful when you throw around phrases like "our resources;" this is a community made up of individuals with their own views and priorities.

With that being said, it's a fair point to say that Gary being in the race could hurt the percentage Ron gets in the primaries. And being that this is a forum dedicated to the election of Ron Paul, we will be keeping that the focus and make sure efforts aren't sidetracked. But may I suggest that you make the point more diplomatically? Shouldn't we be encouraging Gary's supporters to vote for Ron, especially if Gary decides to drop out?

Honestly, our ideological opponents would absolutely love for this to become a battle between Ron and Gary, the two candidates who truly believe in freedom, while the rest of the pack laughs away as they continue to destroy the country.

People are mad that this even happened in the first place. We've been doing well, the momentum has been good and Ron's support has been steadily increasing. On top of that consider this: many people did not bother to watch the republican debates in 2008 and instead focused on the democratic ones. Many more people will be tuning in to watch the republican debates this time around, especially independents tired of Obama, and Ron Paul will have a reasonable message that will appeal to them. We have a MUCH better chance to win this time around and Gary decides to enter and fuck it all up. This is why people are pissed off. On top of that, the guy has publicly rejected a run for the senate, has been distancing himself from RP by calling him "pessimistic", and has bluntly stated that he would not consider being RP's VP. What does that tell you about him? I and many others do not trust this guy, period
 
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Wren, you can rest assured that Paul and Johnson are not "distant". Gary's presence in the debates before Ames is to our net benefit, because his answers legitimize Paul's answers by lending the weight of plurality to them (see my thread called the Ames Accord in the Ames Straw Poll subforum). Some of us who have met both men and are aware of their history as friends have theorized that Gary might even be in the race specifically to move the Overton Window for Paul. And as for Gary's renunciation of a VP slot or the Senate run, of course you're going to hear him say that, and it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not he'll actually accept a VP slot or a Senate run - the simple fact of the matter is that when you're running for President you never acknowledge the possibility of your defeat.

Gary's been in the movement for a loooong time, since back when the LP was our best hope. I've met him, and he's about as cool a guy as there is out there. Not sure if this sets your mind at ease, but I hope it does.
 
Wren, you can rest assured that Paul and Johnson are not "distant". Gary's presence in the debates before Ames is to our net benefit, because his answers legitimize Paul's answers by lending the weight of plurality to them (see my thread called the Ames Accord in the Ames Straw Poll subforum). Some of us who have met both men and are aware of their history as friends have theorized that Gary might even be in the race specifically to move the Overton Window for Paul. And as for Gary's renunciation of a VP slot or the Senate run, of course you're going to hear him say that, and it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not he'll actually accept a VP slot or a Senate run - the simple fact of the matter is that when you're running for President you never acknowledge the possibility of your defeat.

Gary's been in the movement for a loooong time, since back when the LP was our best hope. I've met him, and he's about as cool a guy as there is out there. Not sure if this sets your mind at ease, but I hope it does.

Seeing Ron and Gary in the same room together being friendly with each other is extremely vague and doesn't prove anything to me. I don't know Gary personally, and because I don't know him personally, his statements show me that he's untrustworthy. I refuse to acknowledge him and will actively be against him until he lets out a HINT that this presidential run is not just about himself. I will only support him being in the debates until he at least gives us a hint that he intends to drop out before voting begins. He does not need to be blunt about it, but needs to put something out there to let the grassroots know he's trustworthy. Otherwise, how the hell can you blame us for being vehemently against him, especially when organizations like Reason and CATO will most likely be backing him over Ron?

I read your AMES thread but there's a problem there: not everyone is going to be happy with Gary Johnson over Ron Paul. In fact, a large majority of the grassroots will most likely be furious and end up blaming Gary Johnson for even being in the race at all. His israeli-interventionist policies, his support for humanitarian wars, and his inability to be articulate on the actual issues and not just spout cliches like "we need smaller government" are an instant deal-breaker to many, including myself. I'm sorry, but I don't support that idea. If he's not in this to actually lend a helping hand to our cause, then why is even bothering to run in the first place? Couple his policies with the fact that he's already established himself to be characterized as untrustworthy because of his statements toward Ron, and we have ourselves another pre-election Obama-like politician. Hollow, vague, and very questionable
 
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Every Dollar Donated, Every Sign Painted, Every Yahoo or Other group that goes to Gary Johnson is less those for Ron Paul. I am fucking pissed off that this shit is going on. I will fight against this campaign harder then any other opposition.... why? Because this campaign of Gary Johnson takes from us, it does not take from the others.

so fuck you, and fuck Gary Johnson. I rather be fucking banned from this forum then stay if it starts allowing opposition to use OUR resources.

+1, Amen.
 
Wren, you can rest assured that Paul and Johnson are not "distant". Gary's presence in the debates before Ames is to our net benefit, because his answers legitimize Paul's answers by lending the weight of plurality to them (see my thread called the Ames Accord in the Ames Straw Poll subforum). Some of us who have met both men and are aware of their history as friends have theorized that Gary might even be in the race specifically to move the Overton Window for Paul. And as for Gary's renunciation of a VP slot or the Senate run, of course you're going to hear him say that, and it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not he'll actually accept a VP slot or a Senate run - the simple fact of the matter is that when you're running for President you never acknowledge the possibility of your defeat.

Gary's been in the movement for a loooong time, since back when the LP was our best hope. I've met him, and he's about as cool a guy as there is out there. Not sure if this sets your mind at ease, but I hope it does.

I can't believe you are still blabbing about Gary Johnson. Honestly, I am not worried about GJ because he will have a hard time getting even the 1% necessary to get into the debates. I am still optimistic that GJ has a brain between his ears and realizes that he is a Ron Paul sideshow... being carried along on Ron's coat tails. If GJ is smart, he will get his 1 minutes of fame, then Endorse Ron Paul in his closing arguments of a debate, and drop out.
 
Seeing Ron and Gary in the same room together being friendly with each other is extremely vague and doesn't prove anything to me.

I wasn't trying to prove anything to you, i was just telling you that Gary and Ron have a long history that goes back to Gary's entry into politics. However you take it is up to you, but as a neutral observer, I tell you from my own experience that Gary and Ron are friends.

I don't know Gary personally, and because I don't know him personally, his statements show me that he's untrustworthy.

So you don't trust him because you don't know him? I can understand hesitance to put faith a person you don't know, but you don't know Ron Paul either. Perhaps it's just some Sedona vibe you're getting?

I refuse to acknowledge him and will actively be against him until he lets out a HINT that this presidential run is not just about himself.

Has he hinted to you that the campaign IS about himself? Or is that the assumption you give candidates?

I will only support him being in the debates until he at least gives us a hint that he intends to drop out before voting begins. He does not need to be blunt about it, but needs to put something out there to let the grassroots know he's trustworthy.

Such as?

Otherwise, how the hell can you blame us for being vehemently against him, especially when organizations like Reason and CATO will most likely be backing him over Ron?

You're against him because CATO and Reason prefer him? More on this below...

I read your AMES thread but there's a problem there: not everyone is going to be happy with Gary Johnson over Ron Paul. In fact, a large majority of the grassroots will most likely be furious and end up blaming Gary Johnson for even being in the race at all.

Politics is compromise. Many people aren't happy with Ron Paul over Gary Johnson. Many prefer it the other way around. Many would prefer a different candidate entirely. We are an effective movement because we compromise between ourselves to make change happen.

His israeli-interventionist policies, his support for humanitarian wars, and his inability to be articulate on the actual issues and not just spout cliches like "we need smaller government" are an instant deal-breaker to many, including myself.

I'm sorry that you would allow one issue differences to undermine your ability to support a candidate. A great many in this movement held their nose on an issue or two to support Ron Paul. Such in the case with any coalition getting a candidate elected.

I'm sorry, but I don't support that idea. If he's not in this to actually lend a helping hand to our cause, then why is even bothering to run in the first place?

To see if he's popular enough to warrant a nomination. That's why the Ames Accord allows for us to get things done.

Couple his policies with the fact that he's already established himself to be characterized as untrustworthy because of his statements toward Ron, and we have ourselves another pre-election Obama-like politician. Hollow, vague, and very questionable

What statements about Ron? Gary isn't hollow or vague, he's talking in soundbites. Gary has deep philosophical ideas, but you simply cannot articulate them in a campaign speech - there's too little time and too much to cover. That's a problem I've had with Ron since 07, he attempts to use his 1 minute speaking times to actually communicate textbook information. Gary realizes that 1 minute simply isn't long enough to educate, so he does his best to summarize his general position.
 
I can't believe you are still blabbing about Gary Johnson. Honestly, I am not worried about GJ because he will have a hard time getting even the 1% necessary to get into the debates. I am still optimistic that GJ has a brain between his ears and realizes that he is a Ron Paul sideshow... being carried along on Ron's coat tails. If GJ is smart, he will get his 1 minutes of fame, then Endorse Ron Paul in his closing arguments of a debate, and drop out.

I'm only "blabbing" about Gary Johnson because somebody else blabbed about him first. As for your analysis of GJ's position in the field, it's clear that you're about where 41 posts and a March 2011 join date would imply - totally ignorant of Ron's position in the field at this moment in 2007.
 
Gary has deep philosophical ideas, but you simply cannot articulate them in a campaign speech - there's too little time and too much to cover.

Interesting. He struck me as a cost-benefit analysis type of guy when it comes to policy decisions. I wish he had stronger principles than just that.
 
So you don't trust him because you don't know him? I can understand hesitance to put faith a person you don't know, but you don't know Ron Paul either. Perhaps it's just some Sedona vibe you're getting?


I don't trust him because I don't know him - and when I say that, I mean that I am unaware of the relationship that he shares with Ron. So I have no idea if they plan on collaborating together in this election. I don't know Ron personally either, but he's already shown himself to be trustworthy because of his principles and honesty. You already know that, I don't know why you even need me to explain this to you. Gary might have a decent record but nowhere near Ron's. To the skeptical Ron Paul supporter who has never heard of him before, his statements show that he's untrustworthy.



Has he hinted to you that the campaign IS about himself? Or is that the assumption you give candidates?

It isn't? Well then, it must be about supporting Ron then, seeing as he's made that very clear




I have no suggestions to give to his campaign, that's up to them to figure something out.



You're against him because CATO and Reason prefer him?

No, but they will most certainly attempt to use their following to try and unite support behind Gary. They will drive a wedge between RP supporters and GJ supporters and if they want to back Gary, I wouldn't doubt that Gary would be receiving financial support from the Koch brothers to help fund his campaign.


Politics is compromise. Many people aren't happy with Ron Paul over Gary Johnson. Many prefer it the other way around. Many would prefer a different candidate entirely. We are an effective movement because we compromise between ourselves to make change happen.

I am willing to accept compromise for senate and congressional candidates, but not the presidency. Fool me once....etc. I'm a former Obama supporter. I will only vote for someone I find to be trustworthy now, or just not vote at all and many paul supporters I've run in to feel the same way.



I'm sorry that you would allow one issue differences to undermine your ability to support a candidate. A great many in this movement held their nose on an issue or two to support Ron Paul. Such in the case with any coalition getting a candidate elected.

Foreign policy is one of the main issues that attracted me to Paul and comes nowhere close to issues like abortion or illegal immigration in terms of my priorities.





What statements about Ron?

Called him too "pessimistic", basically suggesting that republicans should be ones voting for him and not Ron
Said his "no" was more powerful than Ron's "no" and that HE actually got things done. While you may agree with his statement, I still consider it bad form.
Has said that he would not consider being RP's VP. <- Suggesting that this campaign is only about himself.


Gary isn't hollow or vague, he's talking in soundbites.

Well then, that's his problem isn't it? I'm not talking about the debates, I'm talking about LONG interviews where he has plenty of time to articulate his positions with more detail. He's boring, tone deaf and seems to have an extremely limited understanding of liberty. One of Johnson's many "soundbites" is claiming that good government is about "putting people first". What politician hasn't said that? Good government isn't about putting people first, it is about getting the hell out of the way. He also said that he takes a common sense business approach toward government and that he wanted to make government more efficient. You would never catch Ron Paul saying such a thing. And it clearly suggests that Johnson has either never read, or perhaps never understood, Friedrich Hayek's Road to Serfdom, which warned that the rise of tyrants is often based on the fact that those tyrants call for more efficient government. He's shown himself to have very limited knowledge on the FED, Austrian economics, foreign policy and so on. You make the excuse that he does not need to harp on these issues to understand them, but guess what? If he does not provide any effort to show his knowledge on these issues in interviews, then you're blindly providing damage control for him. There is more than enough time to show that he understands these issues in a single 10 minute interview, as Ron has proven this over and over again.
 
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Gary Needs to Drop Out

Drop him a couple of bucks here:

https://donate.garyjohnson2012.com

I'm not giving one cent of my money to someone who believes that it's wrong to kill an unborn child (personally), but then he would allow an unborn child to be killed by his mother's choice. It's a very inconsistent and sinister position, one which fails to uphold the greatest right God has given, even for the weakest persons in society--life.

Oh, but he will fight for the life of marijuana plants to be used without exception. He has his priorities out of place, big time.
 
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Oh, but he will fight for the life of marijuana plants to be used without exception. He has his priorities out of place, big time.

Come on. Even as someone who thinks Ron is a lot better than Gary, I don't think that's a good argument. He doesn't care about the plants in themselves, but the plants are property, and that's why they should be protected. He cares about those who posses and use them, not about the life of the plants.
 
Life Before Property

Come on. Even as someone who thinks Ron is a lot better than Gary, I don't think that's a good argument. He doesn't care about the plants in themselves, but the plants are property, and that's why they should be protected. He cares about those who posses and use them, not about the life of the plants.

Be that as it may, I still think Gary cares more about legalizing pot than he does about protecting the lives of the unborn as well as upholding their personhood. You can't protect property if you don't respect life, after all.
 
I don't think it's a bad thing having two candidates for Liberty in the race; it will make it that much harder for the GOP robots to marginalize and ignore the most important issues facing this country.

I'd love to see them both on the GOP ticket!
 
Interesting. He struck me as a cost-benefit analysis type of guy when it comes to policy decisions. I wish he had stronger principles than just that.

I agree with you about all this "cost/benefit" talk he's putting out. I think it's a poor way to communicate what he really means. I don't think he believes that "whatever works best is what should be policy, even if its slavery". I think he means that as an ex-governor he had to justify his libertarian stances by their effectiveness, not just their philosophical underpinnings. He needs to get tough with that kind of language now.
 
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